Posted on 10/22/2008 9:25:20 AM PDT by Jack Black
I've lived through some turbulent years of American history, but I have never seen our country more polarized, more divided, more ripe for – dare I say it? – breakup, dissolution, a secessionist movement. I admit I'm unafraid of radical ideas – if those radical ideas are just, righteous, moral and godly. I believe it's time for radical ideas – just as it was time in 1776. Frankly, I don't see a way to unite a people as divided as Americans are today. We are trying to pretend we're one nation when we are really two. One of those two nations clings to the promises and covenants of the past, the Bible, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, as the guiding principles. The other believes in and lives with no immutable standards. It's not a Republican vs. Democrat split – as the current election illustrates. I know many Republicans would find themselves more comfortable in the country of no standards. I also suspect many Democrats would actually find themselves more at home in the nation of the Bible, Declaration and Constitution. Isn't it time for separation? Is the breakup of the union really such a difficult thing to consider?
Isn't it time for separation? Is the breakup of the union really such a difficult thing to consider? When there are no new lands to discover, what choice do we have?
....
There's only one way to recapture the greatness of America. That is to start over – with only those willing to play by the rules. Let those who don't believe in rules have their own country to destroy.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
I disagree, I think the majority of Americans share the same values and beliefs. I live in MA, and yes, I know it is a liberal cesspool. Most people just want to live their own life without interference. many people could care less about politics and many still probably do not even exercise their right to vote - shame on them, but it does not mean they want to abandon our Constitution.
I pray that the America I know and love stands up and fights for this great country and does not allow some empty-suited, non-accomplished, Communist wealth spreader elected as President of this great nation.
Why do they have to cheat with ACORN if they have a majority of support from the people????? Wouldn’t you want to win fair and square?
Sure there is. Texas, as I think has been established here, would be a very conservative place, leaving many residents of Austin and Houston fairly displaced. Similarly, I think it’s safe to say that California would opt for a socialistic government, meaning Orange County residents are SOL.
So basically you set up a transfer system whereby people who can’t or won’t live under the new rules exchange places with each other, and anybody who chooses to stay knows damned well that their “new” country is not going to much resemble the old one and they’re not going to have a whole lot of say if they desire the state to change for them.
I live in Maryland. It is a democrat-socialist state that doesn’t draw much national attention to its idiocy because it’s not as culturally lunatic as Vermont or Massachussetts. But it’s pretty bad. If there were a new country formed in, say, the Carolinas or further south that was based entirely on Constitutional originalism, I’d pack up my family and leave everything to the hyenas.
We do that already. Poverty rates in New England are lower than in the South, for example. Without our tax dollars going to pay for welfare programs in places like Mississippi, we would be saving money.
RedStates could demand that their earnings not be taxes for FEDERAL (PBS, NPR)TV, FEDERAL SCHOOLS, WELFARE, ABORTION, etc, and so much more.
As the chart I posted above show,s the Red States love receiving tax dollars for education, welfare, Medicare/Medicaid, you name it. Alaska, which is supposedly a place full of independent outdoorsmen who don't like government, is more than happy to take $1.83 from the Fed for every dollar they put in. Meanwhile, New Jersey, which is supposedly full of leeching socialists, gets back 65 cents for every buck it sends in to the treasury.
RedStates could have the military since we are willing to pay for it, and the commie blue states are hate the military.
I doubt the Red States could afford a good military without Blue State tax dollars.
The reason we are in this mess is because the federal government, abetted by the Supreme Court, has usurped far too much power. If it would just stick to operating within the enumerated powers given it in the Constitution we would be fine. New York would be able to destroy itself if it so desired, but without impact on other states.
When stupid policy comes out of Albany it only screws New York. The problem is that when stupid policy comes out of DC it screws us all.
All the states can peacefully coexist in the union - even openly socialist ones alongside capitalist ones and liberal ones alongside conservative ones - if and only if the power in DC is kept in check.
Think about much of the things that DC does, then think how much better your own state could do them all, or some, or even none if it so desired.
Federalism is the only way to maximize the happiness of the people, because it preserves self government and preserves all 50 flavors. If you don’t like where you are, you can move to any one of 49 other places and still be an American.
Big federal government is the disease, not so much other states.
=)
Please dont take this the wrong way, as I would sincerely love for what you said to be a reality.
But it isnt.
The reality is that if we don’t separate ourselves from the Marxists threatening to “lord” over us and our lives. If we dont reestablish the constitution and the principles of teh declaration we WILL lose it all.
Our difference is in action vs waiting to be saved. Perhaps we need both I guess... Those willing to do the saving and these willing to be saved.
I dont think you need to worry either.. Alabama would more than likely be part of any free nation that was created.
I don’t disagree that your chart shows red states taking in more tax dollars than they give out.
However, maybe they wouldn’t actually need those dollars to function if they cut out the beuracracy, waste, and federal mandates. A good incentive to clean house.
The highest school spening per pupil does not equate to the best education.
Take the fed gov out of healthcare and prices will drop, too. Anyone read the study where the price of Lasik, which is not covered by insurance or medicare, has decreased over the years while everything else has increased.
That’s a very interesting chart. It seems to me that the numbers are in some way tied to population density, no? The more crowded a state is, it seems, the less bang for the buck they get.
This shows up even within regions. For example, sparsely populated Maine gets $1.41 while densely populated Massachussetts gets $.75. New Jersey, which barely has any space to walk anymore, gets $.65, while Maryland, which has maintained a pretty fair amount of rural space even given the burgeoning population centers of the D.C. suburbs, gets $1.30.
Is this a reasonable inference?
A mass migration would have to precede the split. And even then, it's highly doubtful the US would peacefully accept it.
We're going to have to fight for liberty once again. It's unavoidable.
Dr. Williams talked about the ‘Free State Project’ which is ongoing in New Hampshire, the ‘Live Free or Die’ state.
A big part of what drives the spending is poverty. The poorer States in the Union receive more tax dollars back because they have more people on welfare, more kids getting free school lunchs, more residents using Medicare/Medicaid etc. The top-ten highest per capita income States are all "Blue". The bottom-ten are all "Red."
When you live in a high cost of living state, which then requires higher wages, the federal progressive income tax is deadly.
In addition, when people retire, they tend to move to lower cost red states and there they receive medicare/social security, which is then counted as federal money spent in that state.
Blue state people are screwed because, well, that is what happens in blue states.
I love the internet- check this out:
But I think an even better correlation is the poverty level of a given state:
Well, (sigh), I don’t see myself as one waiting to be saved, but rather as one willing to fight on where I stand using the constitution and law as allowed to hold my representatives accountable to the people. I do not believe secession is the answer to this crisis, so I must withdraw from the discussion. Besides, I have to pick up a little one from school! (smile)
The “blue states” have the money because there is no where else to go.
Create a freedom friendly environment that doesn’t crush business with regulations and taxes. Hmmmm... I wonder who will beat down a path to your country?
Its already been proven that a company will open up shop in a hell hole like Mexico to get away from the insanity of this country, its regulations , taxes and unions. I happen to think that once the free states are established and people see we are not going away that we wont be hurting for business.
In fact... Over time, more of the “blue” state populations will see the stark differences between freedom and slavery. I think we would eventually recover much of the area initially lost during the breakup.
Based on an admittedly cursory look at those charts, it would seem the tax returns track population density more than poverty.
Even if that’s not the case, what exactly is it that you’re trying to say: Red states bad, blue states good?
Worth considering... “who is john galt?”
Interesting take. I was being about half tongue-in-cheek with my thoughts, but considering what you see in Northern Virginia and Florida, the possibility of having your voting demographics change by mere infusion is very real.
However, I was thinking further about this, and really if our hypothetical nation was restarted with the Constitution and Declaration of Independence as the founding documents and a strict adherence to their original intent, everything would probably be just fine. Several amendments would need to be dropped (16th and 17th come to mind immediately), and much stronger checks and balances on the Judicial branch would need to be put in place. But this would go a long way towards limiting the government and closing the backdoors that have allowed it to get out of control as of now.
Relations with other countries under such guidelines would work themselves out in a sensible way.
Of course it’s all purely hypothetical and pie in the sky. How would we divide up the country anyway?
Not at all. I just frequently hear people complaining how the Blue States are somehow a drain on the rest of the country. Financially, the reality is much more complicated. Though we certainly have our own share of people in the Blue States who suck on the government teat (I live in DC which is a unique case when it comes to the flow of Federal money), I think the Red States are just as addicted to government money.
I love agenda-driven statistics.
Break the states down by county now. See what you come up with.
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