Posted on 10/23/2008 9:23:08 AM PDT by MindBender26
Not if McCain gets his way in regards to amnesty for up to 20 million illegal aliens.
If he and the likes of him get their way, it will change this country forever.
The verbiage in his amnesty package that was literally buried under a mountain of legal speak was a clause that would allow for millions of illegals to file their taxes and claim the earned income tax credit if their verifiable income was less than a certain amount.
This would amount to hundreds of millions of our tax dollars immediately being paid out to those who broke our laws in coming here and by obtaining false documents.
This government is out of control, almost to the point of thinking that there are many hell bent on the destruction of our country and the middle class.
Democrats and Republicans alike are to blame. It's time for a 3rd party of conservative minded folks.
If we keep fishin from the same ol pond, were gonna keep catchin the same ol big mouth bass.
>> -BUT- so they “WE” could revolt under circumstances EXACTELY like this one..
If Americans are craven cowards and will NOT revolt.. they deserve to be CONQUERED..
Russell Kirk said, “conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence. [...] In the statesman, prudence is chief among virtues. Any public measure ought to be judged by its probable long-run consequences, not merely by temporary advantage or popularity. Liberals and radicals, [...] are imprudent: for they dash at their objectives without giving much heed to the risk of new abuses worse than the evils they hope to sweep away.”
Think hard on the imprudence of your position before declaring that you’re prepared revolt against the single greatest beacon of freedom and prosperity that the world has ever known.
H
, that Capitalism is an exceptional economic model Since Social Security (i.e. the dole) all Americans assume big government, not Capitalism, will be the mechanism to provide for our needs--except for what are considered loony libertarian types---everyone....liberal to the most conservative--assume Government should exercise far more power in citizens' lives than our Founders ever dreamed of...
, that the American Constitution is an exceptional form of government Since the Civil War, and especially since FDR, America has eviscerated her Constitution--primarily by allowing Judges and Justices to legislate, and by allowing our legislators to ignore the 10th Ammendment--which alone limited government to what the Constitution says it should do... Only a very naive idealist believes America is actually constitutional today.
, that the American people are rugged individualists derived from the American pioneering spirit The biggest remnant of rugged individualists found are in Alaska...one of the reasons the elites hate Palin so much--but even Alaskan government sends checks to their citizens, an archetype of socialism, and totally contra-capitalism.... "rugged individualism" is dead and buried in most of America.
then conservatives must come to the conclusion that America will endure, as we have for the last 220 years.
Given the reality, vs. the idealism, above, I believe you are very wrong--particularly since we are very close now to electing a serious fascist as President.
>> Well less than half of Americans attend any sort of regular worship—and likely less than half of the churchgoers really see themselves under God and therefore exceptional ...
The question is ... do YOU see the country as exceptional?
>> Since Social Security (i.e. the dole) all Americans assume big government, not Capitalism, will be the mechanism to provide for our needs—except for what are considered loony libertarian types-—everyone....liberal to the most conservative—assume Government should exercise far more power in citizens’ lives than our Founders ever dreamed of...
I think you’re wrong. “Joe the Plumber” would not he working this well if we were truly the nanny-state country you make us out to be.
>> Since the Civil War, and especially since FDR, America has eviscerated her Constitution—primarily by allowing Judges and Justices to legislate, and by allowing our legislators to ignore the 10th Ammendment—which alone limited government to what the Constitution says it should do... Only a very naive idealist believes America is actually constitutional today.
I believe we have certainly strayed in some respects, but that fundamental respect for the Constitution remains in the American population. The only way these changes have been made is by judicial fiat — not by democratic means. The population is largely not on board. Fundamentally, this means all of it can be undone.
>> The biggest remnant of rugged individualists found are in Alaska...one of the reasons the elites hate Palin so much—but even Alaskan government sends checks to their citizens, an archetype of socialism, and totally contra-capitalism.... “rugged individualism” is dead and buried in most of America.
Again, Joe the Plumber. There are rugged individualists throughout this country — they drive the economy.
>> Given the reality, vs. the idealism, above, I believe you are very wrong—particularly since we are very close now to electing a serious fascist as President.
(1) We survived Carter, and we’d survive Obama. And, one could argue without Carter presenting the stark model of liberalism, we’d never have gotten Reagan’s model of conservatism.
(2) Even if Obama wins, he’s not winning by running as a liberal. He’s running on tax cuts and further intervention in Afghanistan. And, Obama has been torn apart for the one “redistribution of wealth” slip up he made to Joe. You can easily tell that conservatism is the prevailing ideology simply because liberals refuse to run on liberal rhetoric.
Perhaps my faith in my country to withstand difficulties foreign and domestic is idealistic. But, my idealism is justified. We’ve risen to the occasion before to overcome fascism, Naziism, Soviet Communism, slavery, and the Great Depression. This test is FAR less imposing than ANY of those ... thus, I am confident that we’ll do it again.
H
I'm not slamming you but I'm not so sure you understand the point of the article. The point is that our government is seizing your opportunity from you through complete disregard of the Constitution and morphing our economy from any realistic comparison to Capitalism to that of Corporatism or Fascism. They are severly limiting the ability of an American to seize anything but welfare payments and mediocrity.
Much more so than that true socialist Obama. McCain choose Palin when he could have picked a RINO or a Dem, so give McCain a little benefit of the doubt, despite his past transgressions. Also McCain was for the surge, Obama is for retreat and U.S. defeat.
Exactly what I've been saying. Voting for McCain condones his policies. Vote for McCain and you bear some responsible for Republicans ruining the country rather than Democrats.
Either McCain picked Palin to trick you, or Palin's not as conservative as you think.
Look, I was no McCain fan, and was not even sure that I was going to vote, but the prospect of an Obama presidency is to horrifying to contemplate, but contemplate we must.
Do you have a 401K? Well, the Obama and the congressional Democrats have plans for your money, which would amount to a tax increase on anyone making over $70,000. How do you feel about a second social security, which would be invested for you in gov’t bonds and pay 3%? Of course you could only leave 50% to your heirs, should you die prematurely. That would be another tax increase on every worker.
Then, there are Obama’s educational plans. Of course, they are not really so different from what exists in public schools in most of the country, but instead of increasing choice, he would limit choice and end home schooling all together.
Of course, there is also the subject of the mandatory draft, that Obama advocates. I hear that he doesn’t want it just for young people though, he wants everyone to donate a year of service every ten years or so. How would you like to interrupt your life and career every ten years?
I could go on, but if you can’t see the need to cast your vote for John McCain by now, you don’t have much intellectual curiosity, or you’re a socialist.
This has been around FR for some time, but it always gives me pause”
“How Long Does the USA Have?
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage’
Whatever Obama would do, McCain would do a lesser version of the same thing. Obama: mass-amnesty. McCain: amnesty. Obama: give away housing. McCain: buy bad mortgages with taxpayer money...it’s still socialism, just not as bad.
I’m willing to put aside my own personal stake (401k, whatever) in order to vote for someone that represents my views...and McCain doesn’t so I can’t vote for him. Money isn’t as important as integrity.
The political system set up by the Founders was a representative republic. The idea of that is not to follow the daily polls and attempt pragmatic calculus (though that’s your right of course), but to vote for a candidate that best represents your views. I find nothing in the Constitution saying requiring or even describing ONLY two parties.
We are not being represented accurately if we vote for someone who doesn’t actually represent our views.
I tried the “lesser of two evils” philosophy. It works up to a point, the subjective point at which a candidate becomes so unacceptable in a voter’s mind. McCain was unacceptable as a primary candidate and he’s unacceptable as a presidential candidate.
Whatever. I still think that you have a very shallow analysis of what is at stake. It’s not about the money, it’s about the loss of freedom and our whole way of life.
McCain would not give money to communists, Maoists, ACORN workers, etc to go into the schools and indoctrinate the children. Obama will, heck, he has, but this time it will be your money.
Here’s a thread that has a long, but very important booklet called “The Revolution Was”, by conservative Garet Garrett (written in 1938). Lots of parallels to today and STRONGLY recommend its reading.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/929392/posts
Here’s an excerpt:
So it was that a revolution took place within the form. Like the hagfish, the New Deal entered the old form and devoured its meaning from within. The revolutionaries were inside; the defenders were outside. A government that had been supported by the people and so controlled by the people became one that supported the people and so controlled them. Much of it is irreversible. That is true because habits of dependence are much easier to form than to break. Once the government, on ground of public policy, has assumed the responsibility to provide people with buying power when they are in want of it, or when they are unable to provide themselves with enough of it, according to a minimum proclaimed by government, it will never be the same again.
All of this is said by one who believes that people have an absolute right to any form of government they like, even to an American Welfare state, with status in place of freedom, if that is what they want. The first of all objections to the New Deal is neither political nor economic. It is moral.
I'm sure thats it. Hey look I was supporting McCain before Palin b/c I recognized early on what a disaster having Barack plus a near filibuster proof led Reid Senate plus a bigger Pelosi majority House will be. If you can't understand that then I think you need to look in the mirror and ask who is being fooled.
Whatever McCain's motive was in Palin, bottomline is he did the right thing. Is she an ideological match for me, probably not. But from what I've seen she is way more GOP than Dem and has a lot of common sense, and that is what I really want in a leader. Everything else can be learned and she is a quick study.
Look, McCain could have picked a NOW endorsed lefty woman and he probably would have won every single "Hillary" vote and 10% of the GOP vote to win the election a long time ago. But he didn't. So I think it's more prudent to give McCain the benefit of the doubt than to let Obama have the keys country, especially when we know he'll wreck it.
If you want to toss your vote away that is your prerogative, but remember somethings like the New Deal and Great Society, can't be undone once enacted. So if you really are a true "small government" conservative then you'll think twice about who you are voting for. And if you do vote 3rd party then please do not complain if Gd forbid you or a loved one needs an operation and the doctor tells schedules surgery a year away and says "good luck." That is a realistic outcome of this election and don't tell me the next GOP Congress can undo that. They can't.
If you are interested, the Bible expounds on this theme to the extreme, but I don't want to lead this conversation there unless you want to go there.
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