An Ugly Attack on Mormons

article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

[DelphiUser]

Hmmm....so what are all the other Churches in this country and throughout the Christian world if they are not God's church, as you imply here? Just curious.

IMHO Orthodox Christianity lost it's way long ago.
B Many tried to "fix it" great men trying to do a great work. They lacked the authority to do so because God did not call them to that work. God did not call them to the work because it was not yet time.

Now we have the fullness of the gospel on the earth, we wish to share it with all who will listen and see if they cannot feel the Holy Ghost testifying to them that it is true. We do not think we are "better than" anyone, we just found God's church first. We do not look down on our Orthodox Christian friends, most are doing their level best with what they know. a few fight against the church of God and I fear for their souls.

[DelphiUser]

DU: Just a quote to ponder: "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." - Thomas Jefferson. [DU]

Colofornian: So, now T.J. is your latest spiritual giant, Delf? Tell, you what...if you're goin' to use your quote above everytime you want to continue the grand Mormon tradition of labeling us apostates (one & all), corrupt (one & all), and abominable (one creed & all)...then why don't you also keep the following T.J. quote handy as well. Then, everytime you meet a theist (vs. the polytheists that Mormons are), you can just whack them o'er the head with T.J.:

It was just a cool quote, but apparently something got your panties in a twist.

[DelphiUser]

So. Are you trying to tell us, Delf, that Hinckley knew about 911 ahead of time? Or that your current "proph" has God's next storm already relayed to him? Remember, now, that your wooden, literal interpretation mandates that the Lord can't do a thing minus telling your "prophet."

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" - Sigmund Freud

God does not always override the weather to rain on your parade, sometimes it's just going to rain and he lets it happen.

God does not tell the prophet before he answers every prayer either.

Give me a break, Delf. Your god is a man! (Joseph Smith repeatedly said so!)

Consider yourself broken the God was man thing is so over blown, tell me mister Trinitatrian, was Jesus fully God and Fully Man? (see! you believe God was a man...)

Your god died! (Joseph said so!) He was physically mortal BEFORE he ever became divine! That's your revelatory god!

So your God did not die? How was your version of Jesus resurrected without dieing?

How did you reversion of Jesus break the bands of death and hell without "going there"?

Besides that, look at how Joseph Smith as a mere man repeatedly contradicted God's revelations from the Bible:

Oh please the Bible is full of contradictions, you cannot agree with all of it because some other part disagrees. for example please tell me from the Bible, exactly how Judas died, no guessing at stuff that's not there please.

So, Smith called the prophet Isaiah a liar! Isaiah clearly talks about winged angels in Isaiah 6!

Remember the "wooden" interpretation you attributed to us? Wings on angels are a denotation of the ability to fly, which angels clearly can do, however, they don't necessarily have big ol white wings sticking out of their backs, it would kind of make them obvious, don't you think?

(Sorry, Joe. Adam is NOT Michael the Archangel! And, no, Adam is NOT the "ancient of days"...you'll need to study the Bible a bit more to unravel that, LDSaints)

Got proof? or are we supposed to take your word for it :-)

[Hey wait a minute! Did the Lord raise ALL the saints or not?

Was David a murderer a saint?

I mean, surely you're not gonna want to back off your interpretation of Amos 3:7 now that you've walked out so far to defend it, right?

I don't believe I was the one to bring up Amos 3:7 As to Joseph smith seeing the coming of the lord, he was killed, first, remember? he didn't live to be 85, so he didn't see the face of the son of man coming in the clouds (you kind of left that part out).

The part about Joseph not living to be 85 proving that it was a false prophecy, well all I can say is work on the reading comprehension, ya missed a few details that were important (like an if) and you know and I know that God knew Joseph was not going to live that long.)

[Elsie]

I have found them to be malinformed, disingenuous, & at worst, sometimes very dishonest in their reports of what we believe.

Just SOMETIMES?

I have to assume the REST of the time they are right on.

[Elsie]

Paul was defending his church against threats from the inside, anti's on the other hand attack my church from the outside.

WRONG!

You know FULL well that MANY in these threads are STILL on the rolls of the church, or, have jumped thru many hoops to get OUT of it's clutches.

To infer that ALL folks who have seen the Light are OUTSIDE, therefore UNKNOWLEDGEABLE is, on it's face, a lie.

[Elsie]

 

This is how this sounds to people not raised with the trinity <-- funny video!

 

And HERE is how NON-Trinitarians are fed the LDS' Organizational line:

 

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

Hmmm....so what are all the other Churches in this country and throughout the Christian world if they are not God's church, as you imply here?

Imply?

:IMPLY!!??

Read the LDS Organizational publication - The Book of Mormon - 1 Nephi chapter 14.

Nothing is IMPLIED there!

 

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

 

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

[Elsie]

"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose that 225,000 of you may become gods" (from speech published in the official LDS publication, The Ensign, November 1975, 1980).

You.. you... You ANTI you!!!

You KNOW that Kimball was speaking as a mere MAN here!!!

He was NOT speaking as a Living Prophet®!!

--MormonDude(WHY do you guys HATE us so? Is it because you are BIGOTS??)

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

We do not look down on our Orthodox Christian friends, most are doing their level best with what they know.

I'll be sure to inform our pastor this weekend that he doesn't know much.

[Elsie]

(What part of 1 Cor. 13:9 is a mystery to you? For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.)

Oh!

NOW I geuss you are saying that even St. JAMES was wrong!!??

--MormonDude('part' my BUTT! We can know it ALL!!! James 1:5)

[Elsie]

BTW, it’s obviously not a new one at all.

Neither is the fact that JS listened to two deceiving spirits - thus the LDS Organization®.

[Elsie]

I have no problem with any of it until they call themselves Christians.

It not THIS that bugs me (though it does) but the fact that HEADQUARTERS has NEVER rescinded what they think of CHRISTIANS and the CHURCHES that they belong to - yet NOW, they, too, want to known as 'christian'.

[Elsie]

Franchise to decide who is or is not a Christian, therefore it is really just a matter of your word against theirs.

On the other hand, the START of their religion is two luminous spirits words against GOD's word!

[Elsie]

Wow! Such a long post & yet you still didn't address all the scriptures I cited about works.

(He's channeling DU! ;^)

[Elsie]

Go ahead and have pity for the “f you!” crowd along with all their hatred, profanity, and vulgarity.

Strange - the ARTICLE linked to at the START of this thread says...

At a pro-gay-marriage rally in Los Angeles after the vote, chants of “Mormon scum!” were reported.

[Elsie]

There are error in the bible, but they are the fault of men, even men who did their best are not perfect for there is only one perfect, and he has not yet returned to us.

Yup!

That's what YOUR Organization claims!

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Oh... in my BoM 1981 edition, on the page with the introduction (4th sheet from front) has these lines...

 

"The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.

 

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethern that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

 

Then I find, just 4 pages past that, under A BRIEF EXPLANATION ABOUT  THE BOOK OF MORMON, I found this at the bottom of the page...

 

About this edition: Some minor errors in the text have been perpetrated in past editions of the Book of Mormon.  This edition contains corrections that seem appropriate to bring the material into conformity with prepublication manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

 

 

Interesting!

[Elsie]

Actually answering questions is not on the anti agenda.

HA Ha ha!

You are channeling Millet now!

[Elsie]

Now you didn't take those 2 verses out of CONTEXT - did you??

[Elsie]

Labeling is one thing I am opposed to, People who claim to believe in Jesus belittling someone else claiming to follow Jesus with a different understanding of the bible is another.

NOW you dis your FOUNDER!!

Your Bishop WILL be calling you!!

[Elsie]

you might want to read my testimony and tell me just how I was deceived.

How is unimportant.

Why you REMAIN deceived is the question SOMEone will ask you.