Skip to comments.The TRUE definition of a "Natural Born Citizen."
Posted on 12/16/2008 4:19:57 PM PST by briarbey b
Emmerich de Vattel was a Swiss jurist who attained world preeminence in international law. This was primarily the result of his great foundational work, which he published in 1758. His monumental work - The Law of Nations - applied a theory of natural law to international relations. His scholarly, foundational, and systematic explanation of the Law of Nations was especially influential in the United States.
The Law of Nations was so influnntial in the United States because his principles of liberty and equality coincided with the ideals expressed in the US Declaration of Independence. In particular, his definitions in terms of Law governing nations regarding citizenship, defense of neutrality, and his rules for commerce between neutral and belligerent states were considered authoritative in the United States.
Many have said that de Vattel's Law of Nations was THE primary reference and defining book used by the framers of the US Constitution. It is really not possible to overstate the influence of de Vattel's Law of Nations as the primary reference book in the drafting of the US Constitution. Emmerich de Vattel's Law of Nations is almost beyond comparison in its value as a defining document regarding US Constitution intent and interpretation. The Law of Nations, or the Principles of Natural Law, published in 1758, is the first, and ONLY, definitive work the Framers of the US Constitution used for the 'Natural Born Citizen' phrase they placed within the Constitution. It nails what the Constitution means by the "natural born citizen" phrase of Section 1, Article 2, of the US Constitution.
It is amazing how perfectly, precisely, and explicitly what Emmerich de Vattel, wrote in paragraph 212, of book 1, chapter 19, of The Law of Nations entitled CITIZENS AND NATIONS, applies to the Obama FRAUD. Quite clearly and explicitly it defines why Barry Soetoro, AKA Barack Heussein Obama Junior, can NOT possibly be qualified to be the President of the United States. Obama MUST be disqualified from the office of President of the United States according to the US Constitution Section 1 Article 2.
That is simply the only thing the Rule of Law could conclude. All US military personal and every other American under oath to protect and defend the US Constitution will be duty bound to remove the fraudulent usurper. This situation is REGARDLESS of votes, electors, media blackouts, high profile embarrassments, state court decisions, supreme court actions or inaction, birth certificates real or forged, or any other documents - Obama can NOT LEGALLY BE The US President. Fraud and illegality has become customary under the Bush-Clinton-Bush syndicate of sudden destruction.
Emmerich de Vattel's explanation of "Natural Born Citizen" given in his 1759 benchmark work, used, and so often quoted, by the framers of the US constitution, makes the understanding simple, explicit, clear, definite, exact, precise, and strict. In the CITIZENS AND NATIONS, paragraph #212, de Vattel says: "The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society can not exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as a matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. THE COUNTRY OF THE FATHERS IS THEREFORE THAT OF THE CHILDREN."
No documentation is required. Everyone should understand and KNOW the answer to the question of what country is the country of which Obama was a natural born citizen. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Barry Obama, Barry Soetoro, or Barack Hussein Obama Junior, to be a natural born United States citizen. He can NOT POSSIBLY be a "natural born citizen" of the US because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a Citizen of UK and/or Kenya. Barcak Hussein Obama Junior could be a natural born British Citizen or a natural born Kenyan Citizen. There is NO possible way Barack Hussein Obama Junior could be a natural born US Citizen; because, at the time of Barack Hussein Obama Junior was born, his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior was a British and/or Kenyan Citizen. Whether Barack Hussein Obama Junior was born in Hawaii, Kenya, or the moon, is irrelevant. Birth documents, real or forged, are irrelevant. Yes, even VOTES ARE IRRELEVANT. Even Supreme Court action, or inaction, is irrelevant. It is simply FRAUD and illegal for Barack Hussein Obama Junior to be put in the office of US President by any means or reason.
This explains Obama's strange behavior in all of his documents and records being SEALED and why he has already spent over $800,000.00 saying NO DOCUMENTS WILL BE ALLOWED UNSEALED or made public.
Barack Hussein Obama Junior is at the epicenter of the greatest national disaster in the history of the United States. NOTHING which Obama would ever do in the office of US President could ever be anything other than FRAUD and ILLEGAL.
I like the way brother Ted said it - The consequences of the Supreme Court declining to address the US Constitution's "natural born citizen" clause on the morning of Monday 12/15/08 thereafter enabling the College of Electors to transform the crisis from "law" to "political and Congressional", leading to the `inauguration' of Mr. Obama, are nothing less than catastrophic. Lawsuits by members of the military challenging his `commander in chief' status are INEVITABLE. And a military takeover to oust the "usurper" may be inevitable as well. Where is the media? This is no "tin foil hat" joke.
AN-OBAMA-NATION CAN BE NOTHING BUT FRAUDULENT AND ILLEGAL.
Nice try. It isn’t ‘jumping or not jumping on a bandwagon’ it is the smartaleck ridicule and condescension, dumb blonde. Seems to be your stock and trade at FR.
...here come the smart guys!! :) LOVE your tag line...how TRUE!!
He knew what ever the truth was when "he" wrote his books. He wouldn't have had to "make up" a story about his father if his father was someone else, just told the truth. Who would have cared?
You might want to follow the link to Sec. 1401 that takes you to Cornell's website. The above is not in the code that they show but appears to be the linking website's comments. In other words...0.
It would be interesting to see Obama arrested at his inaugaration by a military officer. What would the secret service do? I would almost bet that there are others in positions of power within the US that know what the true score is with Obama. It may be a waiting game as he has really done nothing illegal until he tries to take office.
We are either a nation that lives under the rule of law, as set forth in the Constitution, The Bill of Right, and other legal enabling bodies or we are not.
We will soon know. Keep your powder dry.
This old timer is calling you a liar.
Are you practising for an Idiot license? Obama would not have been born a citizen to a mother under 18 at the time of birth. His mother was not old enough to pass it to him. She was within the US almost her whole life.
In no way are my remarks helpful to Obama’s case. Just because I forecast that the absurd Donofrio case was going nowhere does not mean I believe Obama is eligible.
Only someone intent on distorting my points would talk like you.
1) A U.S. citizen at birth is a “natural born citizen”
2) The children of Military personnel serving overseas are “natural born citizens” (Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)).
Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Thanks for chiming in just to sling your own insults.
“1. Unless his definition is included in the 14th Amendment, then no, his personal definition does not appear to be relevant.”
It is clearly relevant if one desires to understand what the author is talking about, and the term is not elsewhere defined as you seem to suggest. You appear to be a “living Constitution” advocate.
“2. If he was born on the moon to an American parent, then yes he is natural born.”
It appears you have some homework to do.
Briarbey b, us guys realized you were a female, none of us in our right minds would dare call a woman a dumb blonde!
Wrong......she lived overseas the majority of her life, from childhood on, with spells in the U.S.
Briarbey b, us guys realized you were a female, none of us in our right minds would dare call a woman a dumb blonde!
ROFLMAO!! Smart man! But kind sir..I can be ...SOMETIMES!
But doesn’t change the fact that I am an American and I am very worried about my country and the future of my grandchildren. I am also concerned about the apathy and non concern of so many.
As a grandma and a dumb blonde at times, I can still pick up a rifle with the best of them and fight for what I believe in....just don’t stand in front of me!! :)
Blatant liars seldom know where their lies end ... pitiful that.
The destruction of our Constitutional Republic has been planned in such a way that there will not be any ‘picking up a rifle’ to defend the dead Republic. By abrogating the Constitutional eligibility requirement, the contract with We The People is ended. What follows will be servitude exchanged for food and shelter. The old ‘We The People’ will be effectively ‘we the sheeple, in order to avoid racial viloence and martial law’ ...
I don't appreciate being called a liar. Back off.
I said the article didn't make his point. Where does it say anything like what you posted? It doesn't, does it? Not only was I not lying, I was right.
Sadly...it just may end up being that easy. But I can still say...”Give me Liberty or Give me Death!!” Because without our liberty we might as well be dead. Life without the freedom to live it is no life at all!!
INDUBITABLY -- UNEQUIVOCALLY -- SO!!!
You are preaching to the choir. I think the case has merit because Obama was born in Kenya, to a foreign father and a mother who had not lived for five years in the US beyond the age of 18.
I also strongly suspect that Obama registered for school as a foreign national, or used a foreign passport as an adult, or acted in some other way to create a presidential disability.
Even though the case has apparent merit, I think the Supreme Court will cower.
All those born under those criteria are citizens at birth, thus by the natural act of being born, they are citizens.
Two types of U.S. citizens, natural born and naturalized.
If Obama was born in Hawaii he was a natural born U.S. citizen, and always would be, no matter any other citizenship status.
Pay attention. I didn’t call you a liar, I called arrogantsob n00b a liar. I pinged you because he lied to you.
I sense we are on the same page. With the 1) and 2) I was simply trying to eliminate a few of the likely 1961 possiblities.
Your post makes me wonder what the dates of his books are, the date of the 1990’s tape wherein he states he was trying to figure out who his father was and the date he decided to run for president.
O acts as though he has a substantial reason for not disclosing his birth documents and he is in essence playing a shell game with our nation. When one has a problem but doesn’t have the facts, it is appropriate to speculate.
So, think outside the box with me. If O was born in Kenya, he is astute enough to realize he is short one US citizen parent in order to qualify for the presidency.
Now lets consider whether, after he decided to run for president, there was a Sandy Burglar-type operation in Hawaii. Could it be Gov Lingo sealed the records based on evidence of prior tampering?
When discussing this issue with a lib my stock question is “why won’t 0 just show the BC and settle this controversy once and for all”? I have yet to get a cogent answer.
In all seriousness, if I were to venture over to Kos or Huffy, how would they explain 0’s reluctance?
The resolution of all this seems so simple to me.
I was unclear and meant that she had lived in the US almost her entire life before the age of 18 not after that. Her life after that was mostly out of the country I believe and gave rise to another blind alley in the claim that Obama was adopted and thereby lost his American citizenship, if he was a citizen prior. Indonesia law cannot remove an American’s citizenship.
What am I supposed to be lying about?
Indeed it is you who are lying when claiming I am a Obama supporter. Review my posts and show me ONE supporting him in any way. Not agreeing with ludicrously constructed court cases does not make it.
Some people cannot do any better.
Thanks for recalling that little tidbit. I was only referring to the Founding period not superceding works.
It wasn’t Vattel which was ratified but the US constitution a gender neutral document.
I agree with your entire post except that the Supreme Court will cower. There is little to cower about other than squeals of outrage. Street gangs versus the National Guard at worst and I know who I will put my money on.
If we allow the Treason media to destroy us then I guess we no longer deserve the nation we were bequeathed.
Are you now trying to tell us that you didn’t know the law as written when Obama was supposedly born requires the mother to have been in residence for five years beyond her fourteenth birthday in order to be able to pass her citizenship to the child? And are you hinting that you do not realize HI issued a COLB for Obama’s sister though she was clearly born in Indonesia? Are you unaware that Obama admits he held British citizenship at birth? ... And are you unable to read the post regarding what Bingham said on ‘natural born’ being child of parents with American Citizenship (as in plural, two)? You aren’t worth the attention you now seek. You’re a liar. Why are you lying for Obama? We don’t know, yet.
These codes passed by Congress don’t change the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land. One must go back to the original intent of the framers for guidance on this one.
If this definition of Natural Born is true it is too bad that they did not know it before the election. We could have been spared the 7,000 Obamba was born in Kenya threads.
It was the intent of the framers that of all the offices in the land, the President would be the officer who must be a U.S. citizen at birth or a citizen at the founding.
These codes define criteria cover becoming a citizen at birth, that is what is meant by “natural born citizen”, a citizen at birth. The Constitution gives authority to Congress to establish rules for citizenship in Article I section 8.
Ok, sorry, I've seen posting about the "embarrassing" info so many times I want to scream. Knowing the lib minds and lack of ethics, that just doesn't wash.
About the sealed BC in Hawaii, I just don't know what to think. I hadn't thought about this angle, I had hoped the sealing was to protect it from something like that, or that it was to protect if in case the Supreme Court requested it.
I just don't like the issue of ALL his records being secured from everyone. And for that matter, the death records of his mother, no info at all on the death of grandmother. That family is a complete mystery, and that is just not normal.
My recall was that the mother at the time of birth had to be 18 and was later changed to 14 with the residency requirement. I could be mistaken but am not “lying”.
I am “hinting” NOTHING about any sister. Never mentioned it never thought it. Nor do I despute the possibility that a sister’s BC was modified to make it appear he was born in Hawaii as some claim. These crooked f@cks are capable of anything.
Holding British citizenship at birth according to British law has no bearing on his American citizenship. IF he was born in Hawaii British law is irrelevant on this issue.
Post 10 destroys all your lame arguments about natural born which you spread with such indiscriminate bile and irrationality.
Calling me a “liar” might make you feel better but does nothign to help you convince a rational person. You still haven’t shown me ONE comment of mine supportive of Obama, Liar.
Under normal circumstances, the HI records in the avult would be amended with changes in citizenship status, such as when Lolo adopted Barry to put him in Indonesian schools as a Moose limb. If any of the amendings show tampering, it would behoove the Governor to seal the records, but according to the HI authorities the Obama files in vault are being handled just like all other vault records, with no special attention to his in particular. With Fukino’s past association to the communist party activities in HI, she is not someone trustworthy to protect a vaulty with such astonishingly important documents related to the greatest seat of power on earth.
But there never was a mystery about his Father’s Kenyan (British) background. Yet in the months leading up to the election there were hundreds of posts claiming he wasn’t natural born because he was born in Kenya, but not one citing these claims. Why was that?
I know little of Mama Obama’s life but just thought that she lived in Hawaii with Mom and Pop until after high school. Boy the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree when it comes to an unknown past life.
BTW I never intended to convey any false information to you contrary to the lunatic’s claims.
That's the other main issue. If obama was born in kenya it's a different matter and he may not be a natural born citizen. Also, as I said, if he had indonesian citizenship through his step-father (indonesian did not recognize dual citizenship)and never legally became a US citizen he is not able to be appointed.
If he went to college and received aid as a foreign student that tells something.
The point is, all he has to do is release his records. Why has he not?
I still suspect that the March, 2007 break-in of the passport office has a significant role to play in all of this.
The founders wrote into the Constitution the eligibility requirements for the expressed purpose of preventing a man of dividied loyalties from becoming president. Obama's British citizenship at birth because of his British sobject father who was in no way an Ameircan citizen is precisely what the eligibilty requirements were aimed to address and prevent such a man from becoming president. Letters from John Jay (first Chief Justice SCOTUS) to George Washington and the subsequent letters and congressional records (like the quote from Binham I posted earlier) reveal that the founders expected a natural born American to be someone from two American citizen parents. There would be/would have been no controversy over Chester A. Arthur were it only one American citizen parent would be sufficient to be natural born. Arthur's father did not become an American citizen until well after Arthur was born, regardless of where he was born to his American citizen mother.
I completely understand. There are just so many strange things about this man and his family, so many secrets, I feel something is very, very wrong with what is going on in our country right now. Something more than we can really understand.
I don’t know. To me it was the perfect storm leading up to the election. Drive gas prices up to panic levels, tank the stock market...”FEAR”...no one paying attention to details, not many (ashamed to say I am guilty also) who really know what our constitution says. I think I slept through that in school not realizing what I was missing, do they even teach it anymore?
I tend to see Obama as more of a trojan horse who is carrying all the cronies from the Clinton era...a fall guy..to accomplish a bigger evil, destroy our freedoms, take us where we will accept a new one world order. And Obama’s financial support was HUGE..some of the money no one knows where it came from. Is he expendable? He came out of no where. He doesn’t strike me as a leader, he seems unsure of himself..more of a puppet. I don’t know. It is the to many I don’t knows that I don’t like.
Information that is hidden is information that is to be feared. Knowledge is power.
Did you miss the little hit Chuckie Schumer made to the standing dominoes of banking, with his public pronouncement gleened from confidential Senate Committee files that Indymac bank was about to fail, which caused an immediate run on that bank wiping out their cash assets and toppling the first three dominoes in the liquidity crunch? Schumer should be tried and shot at damn for his treachery, but of course he is a democrap and they are now in control. Indymac would likely have failed, but they could have held out into next spring with lateral funding from ther banking industry, but Chuckie Schyster made sure the economic wheels came off at just the right time. And Bush knuckled under to the engineered failures.
Apparently the Treason media is in complete control of the people’s minds.
Actually, Obama’s funding came in huge bundles of $200 pre-paid credit cards ... like hundreds of millions, to fly under thereporting radar. Many of those bundles were put together in Dubai and other strategic locations outside of the US.