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Penn Jillette: Why I’m a Libertarian Nut Instead of Just a Nut
Glenn Beck dot com ^ | May 20, 2009 - 11:27 ET | Penn Gillette

Posted on 05/20/2009 2:10:08 PM PDT by FreeKeys

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To: dcwusmc
"Anyone who believes in using the power of the State to control, in any way, the non-coercive, voluntary behavior of other people. You, for example."

Exactly what I'm talking about: non-specific attacks. Please define what EXACTLY you are against that you think I believe.
81 posted on 05/21/2009 12:16:36 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

That was based on the general tenor of your posts. If I was in error, I apologize. Was I?


82 posted on 05/21/2009 12:38:36 AM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: dcwusmc
It really depends what you mean.

"Anyone who believes in using the power of the State to control, in any way, the non-coercive, voluntary behavior of other people. You, for example."

People viewing child porn is "non-coercive, voluntary behavior". If you are asking if I think child porn should be banned by the States, yes, I do.

So it really does depend on what you mean. Am I a utopianist, quasi-religious "libertarian"? No. Do I think the government has no business indocrinating our kids through public schools or passing "hate" laws, or using the interstate commerce clause to get in everyone's business? No.

A conservative is already a libertarian. If anyone wants to go something further, it really depends what they mean.
83 posted on 05/21/2009 2:42:19 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: FreeKeys
It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people yourself is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.

Quote of the day!

84 posted on 05/21/2009 4:33:54 AM PDT by Cymbaline (Bipartisan consensus - that's like when my doctor and my lawyer agree with my wife that I need help.)
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To: dcwusmc

“Do I think the government has no business indocrinating our kids through public schools or passing “hate” laws, or using the interstate commerce clause to get in everyone’s business?”

In fact I mean “yes” to that, lol. Caught by a double negative.


85 posted on 05/21/2009 6:56:39 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: Cymbaline

“Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness”

Of course they don’t actually have to use guns, because the mere threat of force is enough to cause compliance


86 posted on 05/21/2009 6:58:04 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: dcwusmc

He used a really bad metaphor to make a point about the use of force by the government. He also used convoluted thought in his attempt to make that point. Whether or not his actual point is correct makes no difference when he’s not able to clearly communicate his point.


87 posted on 05/21/2009 9:25:41 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier presently instructing at Ft. Benning.)
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To: FreeKeys
“This guy speaks in language so plain”

His language faithfully reflects the depth of his thought. The devil in these matters is in the details. If a president elected with 51% of the votes promulgates his favorite policy, that policy may be against the wishes of 49% of the population. ANY policy is against wishes of at least one member of the population.
If shallow libertarians such as Penn had their wish, there would be no nation -— just a bunch of “individuals” roaming the forests in perpetual arguments and disagreements.

88 posted on 05/21/2009 10:08:32 AM PDT by TopQuark
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

Child porn is NOT non-coercive by its nature. It involves real kids who are incapable of giving informed consent to what happens to them. That is a bad example.

“Do you favor the current war on some drugs?” would be a better question, for the use of mind-altering substances IS a voluntary act. If one is over 18, the age when someone may enter into contracts, join the service, etc., there is no other issue involved. So, do you favor the current trashing of the Constitution in the name of protecting folks from themselves, AKA the war on some drugs?


89 posted on 05/21/2009 10:58:10 AM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: FreeKeys

I like Penn’s rants.


90 posted on 05/21/2009 10:59:50 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: dcwusmc

“use of mind-altering substances IS a voluntary act”

The first time maybe. By definition, we cannot know whether the unaltered person would choose to do it the 2nd time, because their mind has been altered.

“If one is over 18, the age when someone may enter into contracts, join the service, etc., there is no other issue involved”

Incorrect. Contracts can be invalidated if there was coersion, or if the signee was misled in some substantive way, or if the contract itself breaks the law. Or if the person was mentally incapable of signing a contract, for example if they were high on drugs, and could prove that they were high on drugs, it could be argued that a temporary insanity existed at the time of signature, thus invalidating the contract.


91 posted on 05/21/2009 11:28:53 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
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To: FreeKeys
The fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority that don’t want to pay for it. If you have to use a gun, it’s not really a very good idea. Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It’s just ganging up on the weird kid, and I’m always the weird kid.

I've said the same thing here over the years and been called a "Utopian nutcase" for it. At least I'm not alone.

"If 'more government' is your answer, are you sure you should be asking the question?" -DC

92 posted on 05/21/2009 11:47:55 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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