Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb....
Posted on 05/26/2009 8:58:25 AM PDT by Colofornian
A manuscript found in the First Presidency's vault -- characterized by Assistant Church Historian Richard E. Turley Jr. as "a major documentary discovery" -- was discussed May 22 by four scholars from the Church History Department before a gathering of some 400 church history enthusiasts here.
"The Book of Commandments and Revelations" was the topic of the opening plenary session of the 44th Annual Mormon History Association Conference meeting through May 24 at the President Abraham Lincoln Hotel and Conference Center.
Turley, who chaired the session, noted that the manuscript will be featured in the next volume of the project, to be published this fall. Readers will be able in that volume to examine full-size photo images of each of the manuscript's pages, with typescripts on facing pages.
The four speakers at the session are all editors in the Joseph Smith Papers project. Robert J. Woodford said President Gordon B. Hinckley authorized the research of historical documents in possession of the First Presidency, including the Book of Commandments and Revelations (BCR). He said it proved to be "the manuscript collection of revelations that Oliver Cowdery and John Whitmer took to Missouri in November 1831, from which to publish the Book of Commandments," forerunner to the Doctrine and Covenants."
"Additional revelations were entered into the volume as they were received, and the BCR was also used as one of the sources for the revelations printed in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants," Woodford noted. "Hence, the BCR contains the earliest surviving manuscript versions of many of Joseph Smith's revelations, and the only pre-publication manuscript copies of some of them."
Well, perhaps this will allow everybody to easily see how Mormons change supposedly original "revelations" from God after-the-fact. (We already know how several chapters in the lds "doctrine & covenants" were changed from the original 1833 published Book of Commandments)
Here's several examples:
#1
Current D&C 8:6: Now this is not all thy gift; for you have another gift, which is the gift of Aaron
Compare it to the 1833 Book of Commandments, 7:3: Now this is not all, for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod
[I guess the Mormon editors didn't want people to know that Joseph had the gift of working with the divining rod -- you know -- the kind that can supposedly discover where water is, etc...so they changed it to "the gift of Aaron"
#2
Do Mormons know what church positions/offices have been added to Doctrine & Covenants after-the-fact that wasn't in the original Book of Commandments? Go ahead & turn to D&C 42:31,34,71. Did you know there weren't any counselors, high priests, high council or council even mentioned in the original pre-D&C -- which was the Book of Commandments? All those were added well after the fact and weren't part of the original "revelation."
#3
Current D&C 27 was said to be revealed to Joseph on Aug.30, 1830. Well, somebody's lied. Because the original Book of Commandments for this section says this revelation took place on Sept. 4. And, of course, dates weren't the only thing edited in this "revelation":
D&C 27:5 says: "Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon...
In the original Book of Commandments, this was section 28...and it was only 7 verses long. After the phrase "the hour cometh that I'll drink of the fruit of the vine with you, on the earth," the original B of C doesn't mention Moroni or the Book of Mormon at all! It just wraps up the verse, "and with all tose whom my Father hath given me out of the world" and then jumps to what is now the first part of v. 15. Then it goes on to the next chapter, 29...which is now D&C 29. Why did Smith come back and insert most of D&C 27 & all of D&C 28 -- when it wasn't in the original Book of Commandments?
#4
Now turn to Doctrines and Covenants, section 5. Did you know that at least 50 changes have been made in the first four verses from the original "Book of Commandments?"
Right now, D&C 5:4,6 reads: 4 And you have a gift to translate the plates, and this is the first gift that I bestowed upon you; and I have commanded that you should pretend to no other gift until my purpose is fulfilled in this; for I will grant unto you no other gift until it is finished...6 For thereafter you shall be ordained and go forth and deliver my words unto the children of men.
In the original Book of Commandments, these verses read: And he has a gift to translate the book; and I have commanded that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift. [Original Book of Commandments published in 1833, Independence, Missouri, originally Chapter 4, last sentence of v.2]
In the present D&C 5, v. 14, the following sentence portion wasn't in the Book of Commandments: in this the beginning of the rising up and the coming forth of my church out of the wilderness--clear as the moon, and fair as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners.
[So what? Smith or other lds "scripture editors" could just go back & add "scripture" verses willy-nilly well after publishing?]
D&C 5:11, which now reads: And in addition to your testimony, the testimony of three of my servants, whom I shall call and ordain, unto whom I will show these things, and they shall go forth with my words that are given through you was changed from original Book of Commandments, 4:4. 4:4 was a long verse -- it includes D&C 5:9-10...but the part that is now 5:11 originally read: yea, and the testimony of three of my servants shall go forth with my words unto this generation... [thereby changing the meaning from the testimony going from three servants to this generation to "they shall go forth with my words that are given through you"]
Smith couldn't really have any competitors as gaining credit for a testimony to this generation. He had to go back and re-insert his role in the later editing process!
I wonder if the original revelations will make it back into D&C?
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb....
You mean "everlasting" doesn't really mean "everlasting?"?
Many more examples of changes in the Book of Commandments / Doctrine and Covenants can be found HERE.
Note: WA=Words Added // WD=Words Deleted // TC=Text Changed
Also in this preface, "Behold I am God, and have spoken it; These commandments are of me." "Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful." The revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments correctly! This I know,... Joseph and the church received it as being printed correctly. This I know. But in the winter of 1834 they saw that some of the revelations in the Book of Commandments had to be changed, because the heads of the church had gone too far, and had done things in which they had already gone ahead of some of the former revelations. So the book of "Doctrine and Covenants" was printed in 1835, and some of the revelations changed and added to (Letter written by David Whitmer, published in the Saints' Herald, February 5, 1887).
So, let me get this straight: Whitmer says the commandments printed were "true and faithful" and "were printed correctly" in 1833 -- "This I know" he affirms. But Whitmer then says they were "changed and added to" -- and why?
But in the winter of 1834 they saw that some of the revelations in the Book of Commandments had to be changed, because the heads of the church had gone too far, and had done things in which they had already gone ahead of some of the former revelations.
Ah. Mormon leaders were doing things minus any foundational revelations. That needed "tending to." Presto. New verses! New chapters in "old" revelations!
According to the link you provided: For many years the Mormon leaders tried to suppress the Book of Commandments. They would not allow us to obtain photocopies of the book from Brigham Young University. Fortunately, however, we were able to obtain a microfilm of the copy at Yale University and had the Book of Commandments printed by photo-offset.
Hence, the massive editing revealed in the scanned page you showed -- and many pages like this!
In 1835 in Kirtland another committee was appointed to fix up the revelations for print again.... I was often in Joseph's office, and know positively that some of the revelations were so altered, mutilated and changed that a good scholar would scarcely know them. In one revelation I counted 20 alterations! Hence, who can depend upon them? I cannot. I will not.... All your trouble arises from your taking that mutilated and altered Doctrine and Covenants (Saints' Herald, 17:556, 557, as quoted in Changing of the Revelations, by Daniel Macgregor, p.6).
Hence, lds trust in a so-called "prophet" who "mutilated" his own "revelations" for his own beneficial purposes.
Also from the link: CHANGE H (p.53). David Whitmer made the following pointed comment about this change: The next important change I will speak of, is made in a revelation which was given to Brothers Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and myself in Fayette, New York, June, 1829.... In the Book of Commandments it reads thus:
"Behold I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written; for in them are all things written, concerning my church, my gospel, and my rock. Wherefore if you shall build up my church, and my gospel, and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you." (p. 52)
...But in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants it has been changed and reads thus: "Behold I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written; for in them are all things written, concerning 'the foundation of' my church, my gospel, and my rock; wherefore, if you shall build up my church 'upon the foundation of' my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you." The change in this revelation is of great importance; the word "them" refers to the plates—the Book of Mormon: We were commanded to rely upon it in building up the church; that is, in establishing the doctrine, the order of offices, etc. "FOR IN THEM ARE ALL THINGS WRITTEN CONCERNING MY CHURCH, my gospel, and my rock." But this revelation has been changed by man to mean as follows: That therein is not all things written concerning the church, but only all things concerning "the foundation of" the church—or the beginning of the church: that you must build up the church, beginning according to the written word, and add new offices, new ordinances, and new doctrines as I (the Lord) reveal them to you from year to year:... I want to repeat that I was present when Brother Joseph received this revelation through the stone:... I know of a surety that it was changed when printed in the Doctrine and Covenants.... (p. 56)
Am I invited ???
:)
Eh ???
I have a hat...
and a rock
:)
From a BYU website about Oliver Cowdery..
“So, as we learn in D&C 8 and 9, Oliver Cowdery was at one time permitted to do the actual translation of the Book of Mormon, and not just scribe work.”
http://theboard.byu.edu/index.php?area=viewall&id=51370
__________________________________________________
A Book of Commandments - Chapter 7
Doctrines and Covenants - Section 8
Book of Commandments Chapter VII
A Revelation given to Oliver, in Harmony, Pennsylvania, April, 1829.
7:1 Oliver, verily, verily I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, which is your God and your Redeemer, even so sure shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with and honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which have been spoken, by the manifestation of my Spirit; yea, behold I will tell you in your mind and in your heart by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
7:2 Now, behold this is the Spirit of revelation:—behold this is the Spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red sea on dry ground: therefore, this is thy gift; apply unto it and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you and bring your soul to destruction.
7:3 O remember, these words and keep my commandments. Remember this is your gift. Now this is not all, for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod: behold it has told you things: behold there is no other power save God, that can cause this rod of nature, to work in your hands, for it is the work of God; and therefore whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, that you shall know.
7:4 Remember that without faith you can do nothing. Trifle not with these things. Do not ask for that which you ought not. Ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate all those ancient records, which have been hid up, which are sacred, and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.
7:5 Behold it is I that have spoken it, I am the same which spake unto you from the beginning:—Amen.
_________________________________________________
Doctrine and Covenants Section 8
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1:36-37. In the course of the translation of the Book of Mormon, Oliver, who continued to serve as scribe, writing at the Prophet’s dictation, desired to be endowed with the gift of translation. The Lord responded to his supplication by granting this revelation.
8:1 Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with an honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which has been spoken by the manifestation of my Spirit.
8:2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
8:3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.
8:4 Therefore this is thy gift; apply unto it, and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you and bring your soul to destruction.
8:5 Oh, remember these words, and keep my commandments. Remember, this is your gift.
8:6 Now this is not all thy gift; for you have another gift, which is the gift of Aaron; behold, it has told you many things;
8:7 Behold, there is no other power, save the power of God, that can cause this gift of Aaron to be with you.
8:8 Therefore, doubt not, for it is the gift of God; and you shall hold it in your hands, and do marvelous works; and no power shall be able to take it away out of your hands, for it is the work of God.
8:9 And, therefore, whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, and you shall have knowledge concerning it.
8:10 Remember that without faith you can do nothing; therefore ask in faith. Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not.
8:11 Ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate and receive knowledge from all those ancient records which have been hid up, that are sacred; and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.
8:12 Behold, it is I that have spoken it; and I am the same that spake unto you from the beginning. Amen.
__________________________________________________
RLDS Version -
D&C SECTION 8 (Also Book of Commandments Chapter VII 1-7)
Revelation given through Joseph Smith, Jr., to Oliver Cowdery, April 1829, at Harmony, Pennsylvania. It was occasioned by Oliver’s questions and concerns as he entered into more intimate association with Joseph during this first month of their acquaintance.
[Sec 8:1a] Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer,
[Sec 8:1b] even so sure shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with an honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which have been spoken, by the manifestation of my Spirit;
[Sec 8:1c] yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you, and which shall dwell in your heart.
[Sec 8:2a] Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the Spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground;
[Sec 8:2b] therefore this is thy gift; apply unto it and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you, and bring your soul to destruction.
[Sec 8:3a] Oh, remember these words, and keep my commandments! Remember this is your gift.
[Sec 8:3b] Now this is not all your gift, for you have another gift, which is the gift of Aaron; behold, it has told you many things; behold, there is no other power save the power of God that can cause this gift of Aaron to be with you;
[Sec 8:3c] therefore doubt not, for it is the gift of God, and you shall hold it in your hands, and do marvelous works; and no power shall be able to take it away out of your hands, for it is the work of God.
[Sec 8:3d] And, therefore, whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, and you shall have knowledge concerning it; remember, that without faith you can do nothing.
[Sec 8:3e] Therefore, ask in faith.
[Sec 8:3f] Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not; ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate and receive knowledge from all those ancient records which have been hid up, that are sacred, and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.
[Sec 8:3g] Behold, it is I that have spoken it; and I am the same who spake unto you from the beginning. Amen.
__________________________________________________________
Doctrines and Covenants - Section 9
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 9
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1: 37–38. Oliver is admonished to be patient, and is urged to be content to write, for the time being, at the dictation of the translator, rather than to attempt to translate.
1–6, Other ancient records are yet to be translated; 7–14, The Book of Mormon is translated by study and by spiritual confirmation.
1 Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not atranslate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to bwrite for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him.
2 And then, behold, aother brecords have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to ctranslate.
3 Be patient, my son, for it is awisdom in me, and it is not expedient that you should translate at this present time.
4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to awrite for my servant Joseph.
5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.
6 Do not amurmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must astudy it out in your bmind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your dbosom shall eburn within you; therefore, you shall ffeel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a astupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is bsacred save it be given you from me.
10 Now, if you had known this you could have atranslated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.
11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you afeared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now;
12 For, do you not behold that I have agiven unto my servant bJoseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? And neither of you have I condemned.
13 Do this thing which I have commanded you, and you shall aprosper. Be faithful, and yield to no btemptation.
14 Stand fast in the awork wherewith I have bcalled you, and a hair of your head shall not be lost, and you shall be clifted up at the last day. Amen.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/9
Ping to read your post #8 later
“Annual Mormon History Association Conference”
Oh my...
Somethings need no comment...
I see you’re continuing your obsession with stalking Mormons.
This clearly supports Oliver Crowley's (IIRC)claim that the priesthood and the presidency were Rigdon's invention and that it was origionally elders.
Picture of Elsie. The obligatory response.
Because they also elimated the vowell "a". Hence no A-rod. Call Art Bell. :-)
John 1:29-36
29. The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
30. This is the one I meant when I said, `A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
31. I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
32. Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
33. I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, `The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
34. I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
35. The next day John was there again with two of his disciples.
36. When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”
Revelation 5:5
Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Christ's imposter. Not that I'm fingerpointing or anything. :-)
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