Man sues holster makers after shooting himself

WBBM News Radio ^ | 9/17/09 | WBBM

[skepsel]

May the swartz be with you!
Series, what the heck is a swartz safety?

[Cobra64]

I carried the Blackhawk for almost a year but switched to a Comp-Tac without the retention button. When we were doing ground work training, it would get plugged with dirt and sand and we couldn't draw.

At some schools, the Serpa Blackhawk is not allowed.

[sig226]

I’ve been selling Glocks since 1996. :)

The most dangerous thing you can do with any handgun is holster it, whether it has a 5.5# trigger, 12# trigger, or any other trigger. We teach an advanced carry class at the range where I work, which in part addresses drawing and holstering. Since this happened at a courthouse near Chicago and the person wasn’t arrested, I believe he was a police officer or private investigator. If so, he had a higher level of training than the typical CW permit holder.

I think the records will show that he was taught to clear the trigger while holstering and drawing a handgun.

[Orestes5711]

If the weapon is on safe when it is holstered, then it should not fire....the idiot deserved it.

[umgud]

If so, he had a higher level of training than the typical CW permit holder.

Probably true, but he may not have sufficient practice. I practice every chance I can and that includes presentation and holster exercises. I treat all my handguns like stryker fired guns even if they're not.

[USNBandit]

I've heard about the dirt problem. I have a Serpa on an over water survival vest, but the rest of my duty holsters are Safariland. I used to use a Safariland with a SLS hood, but in ground training the hood would sometimes come open. Another proplem with the SLS was that some criminal elements are known to train specifically on opening that holster.

I switched to a Safariland with an auto locking system. Basically like the Blackhawk, but the release is under the thumb instead.

Which Comp-tac do you use?

[Cobra64]

Which Comp-tac do you use?

My wife and I have six of these and we really like them a lot.

Here's the link: http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=66&osCsid=noevhldispe2pdrpk1k4etblq2

She carries and HK P2000 in 9mm, and I carry a Sig P229ST or a P239TT, both in 9mm.

[TC Rider]

I also know a 1911 shooter who shot off a testicle.

How int he world could this happen with an experienced shooter. No less than 4 things have to happen to make a 1911 go bang. 1) Removal from holsert to clear the trigger, 2) a drop on the safety, and 3/4) the swartz safety must be pushed in concurrently with the squeezing of the trigger.

I have a friend who says that old men and 1911s are a bad combination. This guy was an ipsc Master class shooter in times gone by. And usually, it's not clearing the holster that's the problem. It's going back in with the safety off, oops, finger on the trigger, oops.

[Red in Blue PA]

The grip safety on a series 80 1911 firearm. The grip needs to be pushed in at the same time the trigger is squeezed or the gun will not discharge.

Many do not like these; I have no problem with them.

[Red in Blue PA]

The cavalry rode horses with their 1911’s in Condition 1 in WW1 and the guns never went off. How they can go off when one is getting out of a car is beyond me!

[Uri’el-2012]

So what’s your point?

Over the years holstering NDs changed from the days where holsters
did not cover the trigger guard and people shot themselves taking the
gun out of the holster to modern holsters where the holster covers the
trigger guard and the NDs occur upon re-holstering the gun

In both cases it is caused by the operator's finger on the trigger.

As you know one of the Glock's safeties is in the trigger.

If one re-holsters a Glock with their finger on the trigger
they will disengage the safety when the finger hits the holster.

[IGOTMINE]

The Serpa is bad news. There have been numerous incidents of negligent discharges due to the trigger finger released retention mechanism. Plus I have seen the release mechanism gummed up with a small pebble...that pistol wouldn’t come out for love nor money. Finally, on some models if you insert the gun backwards, as you would during a strong hand only reloading drill, the mechanism WILL NOT release the pistol.

I don’t allow them in my classes

[Uri’el-2012]

You are right.

A properly designed Kydex holster does not need a thumb break,
as it retains by the friction and the flexibility of the plastic.

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

It seems like he was checking it at the security station and was reholstering it? There is A LOT of info still needed here in a lot of areas. WHERE is the security video? Who is this guy, why did he have a weapon in a courthouse? Did he have a CFL? etc. etc. etc.

[redgolum]

Interesting. I was thinking of picking one up, but now wil have to rethink it. Any suggestions for a good 1911 holster?

[TXnMA]

"It seems like he was checking it at the security station and was reholstering it? "

~~~~~~~~~~~

OK. I have done the same at the Federal Building in Boston. They have a bunch of lockable file drawers in a side room just for the purpose of securing CHL pieces.

Actually, if you must enter a "no protection zone", that arrangement is a real convenience -- especially if you came in on public transportation and, therefore, can't secure the piece in your vehicle. Also, you are only deprived of protection while you are actually within the "secured zone". When you go back out on the street, you are re-armed. (As you said, that is apparently when the 'victim' above messed up.) I can't see any way my Alessi belt holster or my Bianchi shoulder rig could cause a AD of my P7M8...

Funny occurrence: When taking a client to the BFB cafeteria for lunch, I handed the guard an outdated CHL. Things got a bit interesting for the minute it took me to dig out my renewed CHL! After that, the guards ribbed me about it whenever I came in... ;-)

[Pistolshot]

The article doesn't say if he was LEO or just a civilian with a weapon(Can you have that in Ill?)

My question is ...WTH was he doing at the courthouse with a gun?

My BS detector is going active on this one.

[USNBandit]

There have been numerous incidents of negligent discharges due to the trigger finger released retention mechanism.

Here is some supporting info for your statement. I was issued a left handed Serpa for my HK P2000. The first thing I noticed was on the box it said HK USP Compact/P2000. I thought to myself "that ain't gonna work," because the USP doesn't have slide releases on both sides. The holster was so tight that you couldn't draw the weapon without pulling really hard. The sypathetic response of my trigger finger had it landing on the trigger everytime it came out of the holster. I wouldn't use it. The company eventually replaced the holsters.

Now if you listen to the Blackhawk advertising they say the release button is located to allow the trigger finger to fall on the frame above the trigger, but that doesn't happen on the Serpa I was issued.

[USNBandit]

I have a Comp-tac that I use for concealed carry. I have only had one issue with it. I had the weapon slip out because the either the tension screw had backed out or the holster had loosened up over time.

Just something to watch out for.

[Cobra64]

I have a Comp-tac that I use for concealed carry. I have only had one issue with it. I had the weapon slip out because the either the tension screw had backed out or the holster had loosened up over time. Just something to watch out for.

I agree. If I feel that the gun isn't firm in the holster, I'll tweek the allen screws a little tighter.