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US weapons failed in 2008 Afghanistan firefight
Associated Press ^ | Oct. 11, 2009 | RICHARD LARDNER

Posted on 10/11/2009 8:18:07 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

WASHINGTON (AP) - It was chaos during the early morning assault last year on a remote U.S. outpost in Afghanistan and Staff Sgt. Erich Phillips' M4 carbine had quit firing as militant forces surrounded the base. The machine gun he grabbed after tossing the rifle aside didn't work either.

When the battle in the small village of Wanat ended, nine U.S. soldiers lay dead and 27 more were wounded. A detailed study of the attack by a military historian found that weapons failed repeatedly at a "critical moment" during the firefight on July 13, 2008, putting the outnumbered American troops at risk of being overrun by nearly 200 insurgents.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; banglist; firefight; oef
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I am not willing to accept AP as an authority on combat or on weapons. This was what we used to call a “target rich environment”. My first thought was they ran out of ammo.


21 posted on 10/12/2009 8:02:45 AM PDT by 19zulu
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To: xmission
If the latch is stiff but you are careful to push the mag all the way home, no problem.

The problem is when your troops are stressed and changing mags quickly. Often they can't look at the side of the mag to see if it is fully home, but it feels solid as the latch has ridden tightly up the mag catch.

As the mag feeds out, the spring pushes hard and chambers most of the rounds. However, the last few rounds have less spring pressure, if the mag loosens, rounds may not feed all the way in, jamming.

A softer latch is easier to push the mag past, all the way home. That is why I prefer worn mag cases with new springs and only five turns on the latch spring instead of the standard eight.

22 posted on 10/12/2009 9:11:29 AM PDT by gandalftb (An appeaser feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last......)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
It is the biggest problem in firefights. Too much spraying, it's hard to keep the troops calm when you're taking fire.

One of the soldiers said he fired off 500 rounds continuously until the barrel malfunctioned. That is far too much. At 90 rounds, the barrel steams off all the lube and you are dry firing after that.

Being patient, waiting for a target, pacing your weapon is damn hard to do. But the alternative is no weapon and no ammo and an enemy that knows your weapon is down....

23 posted on 10/12/2009 9:18:55 AM PDT by gandalftb (An appeaser feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last......)
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To: MarkL

Do you disagree that the gun laws have stifled innovation, which comes from private individuals?

Without the govts unconstitutional involvement in the RKBA, I would say that the arms that are in use right now, would be obsolete and what we would have could be so much better. There is nothing better than a free man with a better idea, if Edison were alive today, he would be toiling in a govt office.


24 posted on 10/12/2009 10:32:39 AM PDT by runninglips (It was just time for this to come to a head.....)
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To: runninglips
Do you disagree that the gun laws have stifled innovation, which comes from private individuals?

No, not at all: I agree that much government intrusion stifles individual innovation, not just in firearms design. But you stated that it was the government that designs weapons, and I disagree with that completely. The government puts forth requirements, and private companies then submit their designs. Examples include the M9 handgun competition and the example I cited, Stoner's M16.

Mark

25 posted on 10/12/2009 10:39:06 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Does anyone know what they are using over there? Is it break free CLP or a dry lube? I suspect it's still break free but I don't know for sure.

History of the M-16/M-4 aside Because weapon jamming is something we rarely hear about from over there, multiple weapons including non-M4's jamming has me wondering if someone got a bad/unauthorized batch of lubricant?

26 posted on 10/12/2009 10:59:03 AM PDT by fso301
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To: gandalftb

One word, training. If there’s enough training and enough good platoon sergeants to smack people upside the head that are spraying and praying, you can solve this problem to a large extent. Unless you have a couple thousand Taliban badguys making a full frontal charge, there is no need to discard fire discipline.


27 posted on 10/12/2009 11:05:56 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: MarkL

If you have to work within specs given by the purchaser, who is your employer and your market, you are not free to innovate. Since there is no market other than the state collective....truly a Soviet system, there can be zero private innovation.

It is impossible to tell where a product can be improved or what new things could be invented from whole cloth, by using the greatest computers or HIRING the greatest minds. Those in control do not allow these human minds to dream freely, and computers are no more than inferior versions of the human mind with the same problems, they do only what told to do.

In conclusion I reiterate, that there are no consumers to impress and dazzle, other than the government. This distorts the market, since owning a machine gun is both expensive, open to only a few, and frightening to those that are daily told by the government media complex, that they are evil. The current crop that is considered “state of the art” is inferior to anything that can be dreamed of in the basement of a free teenager, or a skilled craftsman with a love of the “gun culture”.

The very guns that could better win us wars, protect our homes and give hours of enjoyment to law abiding citizens, are just not built.....end of rant....well thought out one, but a rant nonetheless.


28 posted on 10/12/2009 1:14:17 PM PDT by runninglips (It was just time for this to come to a head.....)
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To: runninglips
If you have to work within specs given by the purchaser, who is your employer and your market, you are not free to innovate. Since there is no market other than the state collective....truly a Soviet system, there can be zero private innovation.

You're certainly right. There can be no innovation, nor excellent design under the yoke of the government... Certainly not the M1911, M1 Garrand, M14 (T-44), M-2 machine gun, etc...

Mark

29 posted on 10/12/2009 7:01:53 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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