Climategate and the Migrating Arctic Tree Line

American Thinker ^ | January 07, 2010 | Dexter Wright

[muawiyah]

Isn't that amazing. BTW, Mann and company glommed onto yet another study that worked up a dendrochronological trail that runs back a couple of thousand years.

Still, no one has overcome the problem of determining temperature in any given year, but we can, in fact, tell you what the Sunspot count was. That's because the ratio of carbon 14 to carbon 13 varies directly with the number of Sunspots.

That feature, in turn, could give you a general idea of overall climate since we have historic records of colder temperatures during long periods of Sunspot minimums, and vice versa ~ but Mann wouldn't want to prove that himself ~ 'cause it'd say "Hey, bro, it do be cold doncha' know and there's almost no Sunspots".

You can use tree ring data to demonstrate widespread climatic problems ~ e.g. the cold spell for a couple of years right at the beginning of the Dark Ages (circa 535 AD). Trees don't always grow better, faster, bigger and wider when it's warmer, but if it gets colder all at once, leaves don't form and bingo, tree rings don't grow very much at all.

Part of what's going on with these Siberian trees is that we don't know much about the environment of any particular tree.

[Fred Nerks]

...Part of what's going on with these Siberian trees is that we don't know much about the environment of any particular tree.

I'm no scientist, but if I was working a scam, I would pick the trees with rings that tell the story I want to tell...

Hope the Russian 'scientists' who supplied the made to order tree-ring data are also ultimately exposed. I recall their 'send money' e-mails.

[muawiyah]

The Russian scientists who put these studies together were quite serious in their purpose ~ and seem to have done a doggone good job. They have publicly complained about the misuse Mann, Jones and their running dog lackeys made of their work.

You saw the pictures ~ conditions in the Siberian Arctic are rough ~ even on a nice day. The guys who dragged those trees out of the water and cut the samples were doing a real man's job.

[Fred Nerks]

...They have publicly complained about the misuse Mann, Jones and their running dog lackeys made of their work...

I did not know that. Have you any further information or links you can share on that? I would be very interested in their side of the story.

[muawiyah]

You might look up “Russians complain(ed)” followed by “tree rings”.

[Fred Nerks]

thanks, I will. I was being lazy, wasn’t I? There’s no excuse for that!

[Brugmansian]

I understand things were tough in Russia in 1996 but some of these back and forths read like Nigerian emails.

From: "Tatiana M. Dedkova"
To: K.Briffa@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: schijatov
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 09:41:07 +0500

. . . I and Valery Mazepa were in Krasnoyarsk during one month and together with E.Vaganov wrote the manuscript of book "Dendroclimatic Studies in the Ural-Siberian Subarctic". The problem now is to find money for its publication. If we find enough money soon (20 million roubles), the book will be published this autumn.

We analysed 61 mean ring-width and 6 cell chronologies which we intend to publish in form of tables in the Appendix. We can send to you all raw measurements which were used for developing these chronologies.

Of course, we are in need of additional money, especially for collecting wood samples at high latitudes and in remote regions. The cost of field works in these areas is increased many times during the last some years. That is why it is important for us to get money from additional sources, in particular from the ADVANCE and INTAS ones.

Also, it is important for us if you can transfer the ADVANCE money on the personal accounts which we gave you earlier and the sum for one occasion transfer (for example, during one day) will not be more than 10,000 USD.

Only in this case we can avoid big taxes and use money for our work as much as possible .

Please, inform us what kind of documents and financial reports we must represent you and your administration for these money. I and Eugene have a possibility to participate in the Cambridge meeteng in July, but we need extra many and special invitations.

If you do not have enough money to invite both of us, Eugene does not insist upon this visit.

The best wishes to you and Phil.

Yours sincerely Stepan Shiyatov

SOURCE

[muawiyah]

That’s truly priceless. On the other hand you can see that the Russian researchers KNOW who they are dealing with!

[Brugmansian]

Can't blame them. If I was in Russia at that time, I would have done the same thing. Want tree ring data? I got em! Send money! Here is a follow up to the letter above:

Dear Keith,

Some days ago I came back from the Polar Ural Mountains. I was there about 30 days making photos from the points where I have made photos 35-40 years ago and evaluating the changes which were happened during this period.

Unfortunately, Rashit could not be able to go to the Yamal Peninsula for collecting subfossil wood this summer as a result of deficiency of money.

I am glad that we have been successful in INTAS proposal. Financial situation in our country so terrible that we will not work successfully without support from international grants.

Yesterday I have sent by post the signed form (official power of attorney). If you have any additional information concerning this grant, please give me know.

I wish the best to you, your family and Phil.

Sincerely yours
Stepan Shiyato

full text

"Phil" was getting a million bucks in funding at a pop. Sitting pretty in East Anglia. The Russians were asking for chump change to stay alive. I don't blame the Ruskies.

[muawiyah]

Absolutely ~ old friend of mine over at University of Maryland was administering grants to Russian nuclear physicists to keep them "on the job at home" and not off working for Libya, or Iraq, etc.

He was paying them $50 a month!

Jones and Mann probably paid $20 quarterly ~ and that was in good times. You just know that fundamentally flawed people will cheat the poor!

[Brugmansian]

grrrr.....we should have cleaned up after the Cold War. But, no, our media pretended it never happened and Bush Sr, had he wanted to (and I don't know if he did) had no popular support for fixing all the crap that had engulfed the 20th century.

We should have taken Soviet block scientist who wanted to come to America. Put them somewhere. Given then decent jobs.

But no..we gave priority to stucco workers from Mexico.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Fred Nerks!

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[SunkenCiv]

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	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks Fred Nerks for the ping and pic, and thanks neverdem for the topic. The now-discredited Dr. Jones of East Anglia University would like us to believe that the migration of the tree line along the Arctic Circle eliminates what is known as the Medieval Optimum, a warm period one thousand years ago when the Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland. Dr. Jones fails to take into account the "wobble" of the Earth's axis, which just three thousand years ago was pointing toward the star Kochab in the constellation Ursa Minor (the Little Dipper) so that it was fixed at the center of the celestial sphere. The measurements of this "wobble" over the last hundred years reveal that in 1900, the tilt was 23.45229 degrees; in 1977, the tilt was 23.44229 degrees; and in the year 2000, the tilt was 23.43928 degrees. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
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[rdl6989]

I’m sure Al-Goracle will come to his senses now. /sarcasm

[colorado tanker]

I think the author erred in stating the Vikings grew grapes in Greenland during the Medieval Warm. I've never heard that; all I've read is livestock fodder and staple foods.

His link goes to a website about the Viking settlement at Vinland, which is probably what he was thinking.

Still, when writing an article to debunk another's work, fact check, fact check, fact check.

[ThanhPhero]

Policymakers are not concerned with reliability, only with political utility.

[SunkenCiv]

That’s interesting, wine from Greenland, didn’t notice that, thanks ct.

[gleeaikin]

Is there any possibility that these trees were close enough to the great Tungusku meteor event to have be blown down that way, or be close enough so that the vast destroyed/flattened area could have influenced the climate. There was also probably a colder period following Krakatoa in 1883, and Katmai in 1911 or 12.

[muawiyah]

If the various studies regarding these trees are correct some of them were alive more than 2,000 years ago.

BTW, Sibera is a huge expanse of land. The comet/meteor event at the beginning of the last century was MINISCULE compared to the size of the place.

[gleeaikin]

“greatest period of prolonged cold during the first half of the 19th century.”

Don’t forget “the year with no summer” after Tambora in 1815. Temperatures were colder for several years after. Also Cosiguina in Central America was a big one in 1835. Might be others, no time to look now.