SOMEone didn't see the downturn coming?
If MORMONs did NOT have to pay so much money to the Religious Organization they belong to,
then maybe they could save up a year or so's worth of MORTGAGE payments along with their foodstuffs!
Posted on 02/12/2010 4:18:46 PM PST by Colofornian
During the housing bubble, they led the nation in bankruptcies. Now that the bubble is bust, they're among the top states in foreclosures. A RealtyTrac report released Thursday showed they had the fifth-highest foreclosure rate among the states, with 1 in 231 homes receiving a foreclosure notice in January. That's nearly double the national rate and not far from No. 4 Florida's rate of 1 in 187.
The US foreclosure rate actually fell 10 percent from December's level – and Utah was down nearly 12 percent – but RealtyTrac suggested they could surge again in coming months if last year's pattern holds true.
It's relatively straightforward why the housing bubble walloped Florida and the other Big Four foreclosure states...
But Utah homes rose only half that much during the decade. What's going on in Utah?
"It's a lot of younger people who spent way, way beyond their means, absurd amounts of money trying to keep up with their folks," says one Utah resident who helps counsel financially troubled families at his church. They're "cool, nice, wonderful people, but an awful lot of them don't know how to spend money very wisely."
In mid-decade, when Utah was tops in bankruptcies, various commentators pinned the blame on Mormon religious and cultural practices, such as tithing, creating large families, buying homes at a young age, and as one critic put it: "the pressure in Mormonism to be, or at least appear, financially successful as proof the Lord is blessing them."
Indeed, Mormons in 2004 had a bankruptcy rate that was approaching twice that of the national average. But a 2007 study by two Harvard Law School graduates found that rates among non-Mormons in Utah were even higher, suggesting that religion, if anything, was restraining bankruptcies.
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
He couldn't. No where on documents used to file bankruptcy, known as the voluntary petition, does it capture the petitioner's religion. It doesn't capture the petitioner's race either. And, IIRC, none of the forms capture the petitioner's sex, although I'm not positive about that one.
I believe you. But, you're probably aware that this is a common narrative peddled by the media with respect to your religion, amongst other rumors and innuendo as well.
I sympathize. As a Catholic, I'm frequently frustrated by some the same fallacies, and slanderous accusations perpetrated by the media against my church. Unless you worship at the altar of "big government", the media has no use for you.
Since I have Navy Seals in my family and one not of them is lds, do have a source for that?
Nice of you to leave off the part where the poster said "Can't speak for the Navy Seals".... you know that unimportant part before the word "but."
So, I would imagine, no the poster doesn't have a source for that since you can't prove a negative.
Still wondering if you have a source for "fair chunk of Army Rangers are Mormon."
It's simple. Do the math: You can't be 56% of the pop without contributing to a bankruptcy rate almost twice the natl avg state-wise. (IOW, it's not simply 44% of Utah's non-Mormon population operating in severely lopsided ways as foreclosure-happy folks).
My guess would be that people tend to group with others they have common interests with and its not uncommon for friends to try out for certain things together; so, it could appear as large numbers are in xxxx. And when you recruit, people often look for others they can relate to.... Again, from my point of view these are personal observations and conclusions.
Huh? Your statement does nothing to answer the question. If the worst offenders are non-Mormon, why again is this the Mormons' fault? Something is definitely causing Utah's high forclosure rate, but to blame Mormons for something non-Mormons are doing is non sequitur.
Wow! Are you really claiming that Mormons in UT aren't getting foreclosures? (Wow! What a re-statement of the situation!) Did you read the article? It said the % rate was only "slightly higher" among non-Mormons -- NOT rampantly so! Do you really understand statistics?
Let's look @ some actual #s as the proper backdrop...CNBC says the foreclosure rate in Utah is 1 in every 231 households. Mortgage.nextag.com says there's just over 700,000 total number of households in the state. So how many foreclosures is that? (Just over 3,000)
So, let's say you live in a community of 2,300 households -- and you've heard 10 of your neighbors have foreclosed in the last year. Now you know that almost 60% of your neighbors are Lds population-wise (over 1,300 households). So, if you figured if that rate cut demographically across the board, you'd have 6 lds & 4 non-lds. But THEN you hear, "No, slightly more non-Mormon than Mormon households (% rate-wise) are getting the foreclosures."
Now given those #s...what does the above then translate into? If 5 Non-Lds households out of the almost 1,000 got foreclosures, that's a rate of under 1 in 200, which would be HIGHER than the Mormon rate of about 1 in 265 households. Now, is 1 in almost 200 higher than 1 in 265? (Yes) Is it "slightly higher"? (No, it's significantly higher). So in THIS example, I've even skewed the rates more favorably toward Mormons...yet Mormons are then still responsible for at least half -- and likely over half -- of the foreclosures in that community...[Remember, if you're 60% of the population & 57% of the foreclosures...sure, you're doing slightly better than 40% of the population & 43% of the foreclosures...but it doesn't mean one foreclosure household is any "worse" than another (your statement that "if the worst offenders are non-Mormon, why again in this the Mormons' fault?")]
Now we don't even have to rely on just statistical logic:
(1) According to a July 2009 Salt Lake Tribune article Provo-Orem tops state in foreclosure-related filings , which Utah metro area had the highest # of foreclosures? (Answer, the Provo-Orem area -- Utah County -- which "coincidentally" has the HIGHEST % of Lds concentration in the entire state!)
In fact this 2003 article says that 88% of this county is LDS! 88% of Utah County is LDS And the 2009 Trib article says: The Provo-Orem area is ranked No. 31 in foreclosure-related filings among more than 200 areas nationwide, a new report shows.
So the area w/88% Mormon population is actually ranked #31 nationwide for regional areas! The Trib said: The Utah County community is the highest-ranked Utah metro area on the list, with 3,168 properties -- approximately 2.2 percent of all housing units-- receiving a filing in the first half of the year. That's up 129 percent from the same time period last year.
According to the Trib, the other 2 areas (known for having 56-58% Lds population) that were responsible for the second & third highest rates: The Salt Lake metro area was at No. 58, with Ogden-Clearfield at No. 59 in the report by RealtyTrac, which monitors a wide range of filings from default notices -- in which homeowners are simply behind on their payments but not yet in danger of losing their properties -- to notices that the bank is taking possession of the property. In the Salt Lake metro area, 5,322 properties -- 1.4 percent of all housing units -- received a foreclosure-related filing in the first half of the year, up 63.2 percent from the same time period last year. In Ogden-Clearfield, 2,397 homes, or 1.4 percent of all homes, received some type of filing. That's up a whopping 82 percent from last year.
So, bottom line even with these two other areas, what I was getting above & in my last post is that no minority population group that has 40% or so of the population -- which has a SLIGHTLY higher foreclosure rate -- is going to "carry the load" in accounting for a state that has a foreclosure rate almost half of the national average. It just isn't statistically possible.
(2) Also, as further evidence, which state has the 2nd highest Lds population % wise? (Answer? Idaho) And where is Idaho in the national foreclosure ranking? (Right behind Utah in 6th place -- 1 in 246 households!)
SOMEone didn't see the downturn coming?
BINGO!
We have a winner!!!
I’m not an expert. I’ve only been in S. Utah for 3 years or so; not a lifetime by any measure.
Here are my observations taken with the eyeballs of a non-LDS, newbie to Utah:
Mormons are about the nicest human beings you’ll ever run across, anywhere. They might make an effort to involve you in LDS activities, it’s done without malice or pressure. It seems to be a genuine effort at neighborliness, the same as my Catholics back home would do with a new arrival in town.
Marrying young is not so much encouraged here, as it is NOT discouraged, which is what those of us from back east are used to. It isn’t nearly as rare here as elsewhere to find gals marrying either while still in high school or right after. That was a bit of a culture shock to me. I suspect this may contribute to the financial problems.
One of the first things I noticed after moving here was the stunning number of pawn shops and payday loan businesses; I’d never seen anything like this before. Not even in the poorer neighborhoods of Cleveland. The fact that the LDS tithing is more enforced than in other denominations might contribute to this, I’m thinking. From neighbors, etc., I hear the church takes it’s “cut” first, and you deal with it from that point on.
I suspect that most of the non-LDS bankruptcies are illegal immigrants, only from what I see first hand. This state has historically been very friendly to illegals and they have been big players in the housing market. When construction dried up, it was over for them.
Finally, Utah is, in someways 2010 trapped in 1958. This isn’t intended as an insult; it’s rather charming. The church has fostered an “innocent” culture in this state, making it pretty safe to raise children here. But do not confuse that with 1958 technology; this is a high tech place, for sure. It is light years ahead of my home state of Ohio.
Nevertheless, the powers that be have recognized the innocence factor and became one of the handful of states in the U.S. to make General Financial Literacy a core curriculum issue, in order to graduate from high school.
http://teachingpersonalfinance.com/utah-state-core-curriculum-standards.php
You can scroll through this list for more information:
http://schools.utah.gov/main/search.aspx?q=General Financial Literacy
I salute them and wish the rest of the states would follow.
You saw it as well!
That's nearly double the national rate and not far from No. 4 Florida's rate of 1 in 187.
That's because 60% of the state claim to be MORMON.
Do you think the OTHER 40% are SO bad that THEY would drag the state to the #2 spot?
http://www.statemaster.com/state/UT-utah
Maybe when filing, folks have to explain where their money has gone to?
Then I would have to say, "I have absolutely no idea what "They're nice, wonderful people" is supposed to mean in the sentence from the article.
Oh?
Just HOW many times has all that stuff SAVED their butts from DISASTER?
The article didn’t mention the flinty eyed and cold hearted bankers who send out their salivating wild eyed lawyers to right the off kilter loan accounts
You may think differently if this sign goes up next door...
Yeah!
Look at them!
Possibly, but I hear that UTAH has an awful lot of MORMON church owned businesses that tend to lessen the ability of the OTHER businesses to do as well.
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