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'Constitutional' conservatives -- not
NY Post ^ | February 24, 2010 | JACOB SULLUM

Posted on 02/24/2010 3:24:36 AM PST by Scanian

The day before last week end's Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, a group of prominent conservatives gathered a few miles away at the Virginia estate of our first president. Their Mount Vernon Statement swears fealty to a "constitutional conservatism" that "applies the principle of limited government based on the rule of law to every proposal" and "honors the central place of individual liberty in American politics and life." If only they meant it.

Constitutional conservatism certainly sounds better than "compassionate conservatism," which turned out to be code for big-government conservatism. And it is easy to hope that the thread of a properly limited federal government could bind the strands of a movement that has been unraveling since the end of the Cold War.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: commerceclause; cpac; federalpower; mtvernonstatement; teaparty; tenthamendment; usconstitution; wickard
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1 posted on 02/24/2010 3:24:37 AM PST by Scanian
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To: Scanian
This is another instance of the libertarian assault on the GOP that emanates from the Cato crowd and that dominated CPAC this year. Ready access to drugs and pornography may be a popular cause among college kids and Millennials, but it has only a small and losing following among the electorate at large. Dressing the reckless "lifestyle libertarian" program up as fidelity to the constitution compounds political opportunism with intellectual chicanery and over reaching.
2 posted on 02/24/2010 3:51:44 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
The specific cases of drugs and pornography are not the issue; they are illustrative of the issue which is the extra-constitutional over-reaching by both liberals and social conservatives. The notion of legally influencing the lyrics of music or the content of books or movies is attractive to some but clearly not constitutionally based. The makeup of school lunches should not be a federal concern any more that the wages paid to adults who should be allowed to freely contract for their work.

All of these issues and their federal solutions appeal to some group somewhere; that's how many of the issues resulted in new laws. The constitution doesn't support this sort of meddling with individual liberty.

3 posted on 02/24/2010 4:03:33 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Obama: The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers)
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To: muir_redwoods

Lets look at these wars on drugs, poverty, fill in the blank. What has been their results. Disaster. Lost freedom, millions in jail. Anytime the government has a war on some problem at home it will result in expanded government power and the loss of freedom. You cannot argue that its okay to expand government power for somethings that you believe, but that its not okay to expand government power for the things that you don’t believe in. The only way to slay the leviathan state is across the board limitations on its power. From a purely economic standpoint, outlawing drugs creates huge incentives for criminals to breach the prohibition. Whether its Al Capone or the Mexican drug cartels, they all spring from the same source, attempted expanded government control over the populace. Remember how well the government’s first War on Alcohol worked out. All subsequent wars have met similar ends.

As far as foreign policy goes, sound money leads to sound policy. If you can’t print the stuff up to finance a war, then the country must agree to the war through higher taxes and legitimate borrowing.


4 posted on 02/24/2010 4:21:17 AM PST by appeal2 (Government is not the solution, it is the problem and eventually the enemy.)
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To: Scanian
We have enough anger built up to force Constitutional rule and even LIBertarians like this jerk cannot stop the movement.

LLS

5 posted on 02/24/2010 4:22:54 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (hussama will never be my president... NEVER!)
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To: muir_redwoods
" The constitution doesn't support this sort of meddling with individual liberty."
I have been shouting this from the rooftops for years now. I have noticed that lately, there is an orchestrated attack by social conservatives against anything remotely libertarian on this site. I have been attacked, called names, told that this is not the site for me. If certain people do not believe in the constitution, as written, they are not conservative. If someone believe that what I do in the privacy of my own home, is their business, then they are not conservative. They would be agents of the thought police, and as such not worthy of being called conservative.
6 posted on 02/24/2010 4:24:12 AM PST by joe fonebone (CPAC.....Commies Playing At Conservatism)
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To: appeal2

I posted this on another thread....It may be relevent to the so called social conservatives....

1) Ending the war on dope will result in smaller government. When a person caught with a joint gets jail time, probation, mandatory drug testing, tens of thousands of dollars in fines and fees, eliminating all of this will naturally result in smaller government. When paramilitary storm troopers engage in no knock warrants and shoot and kill little old ladies in their homes ( happened in georgia, there were many threads in FR about this one ) ending the war on drugs will result in the near elimination of these organizations, resulting in smaller government. My greatest fear is that I will be the next one shot dead over a bad tip and no knock warrant. I do not do drugs, nor do I believe Illegal drugs have a place in society. But, when a doctor or dentist has to struggle over prescribing pain medication to a patient because his books will be monitored, and any discrepency can result in imprisonment, fines or loss of license, then it is upside down. The war on drugs is over, and civil liberties have lost.

2) When the fines for soliciting a prostitute include confiscation of property, publishing of your personal information, and prison time, it is upside down. When the police set up sting operations, whose sole purpose is to entrap, confiscate personal property and imprison, it is upside down.

This is my 2 cents. Flame away.


7 posted on 02/24/2010 4:28:35 AM PST by joe fonebone (CPAC.....Commies Playing At Conservatism)
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To: LibLieSlayer

“We have enough anger built up to force Constitutional rule and even LIBertarians like this jerk cannot stop the movement.”

What did this guy propose that was un-Constitutional?


8 posted on 02/24/2010 4:40:23 AM PST by webstersII
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To: muir_redwoods
As your comments suggest, the target of the piece and of lifestyle libertarians is social conservatives within the GOP. This is not coalition building toward an effective political majority in power but opportunistic factionalism that risks a destructive battle between libertarians and social conservatives.

If the US suffers a national economic calamity because such a split weakens the opposition to Obama and the Left's expansion of federal spending and power, I am confident that libertarians will insist that that it is all the fault of GOP social conservatives because they would not accept marijuana and pornography.

In this and much else, the intellectual brilliance of so many libertarians is marred by dogmatism and a lack of political realism. They make me think of oddball, alienated smart kids in high school, proud to be on the outs with everyone but each other. That kind of psychology does not make for winning elections and getting to run the country.

A careful reading of Scalia's rationale in his concurring opinion in Gonzales v. Raich reveals a rationale that limits the reach of the Commerce Clause by requiring it to be coupled with the "necessary and proper clause" in extreme cases. Support and development of this rationale would help to curb the federal commerce clause. In contrast, Thomas's position is untenable even if intellectually bracing.

9 posted on 02/24/2010 4:45:32 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: joe fonebone

“I have been attacked, called names, told that this is not the site for me.”

Me, too. I have no use for any mind-altering substances or other vices that many Libertarians push but as soon as you stand up and say that the gov’t has no authority to prohibit certain things they label you a Libertarian, a pothead, and worse.

Most people on FR would be shocked to learn that in the early years of the this Republic that alcohol consumption was quite high, way higher than today. The British tried to tax sugar, which was used to make rum, and that really set off the Colonists.

People on FR need to stick to the facts and not just go with their emotions like the liberals do.


10 posted on 02/24/2010 4:46:22 AM PST by webstersII
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To: Scanian

Reading the replies here, it’s apparent that most don’t understand what he’s saying. It’s irrelevent whether you believe that homosexual marriage, smoking pot or abortion should or should not be legal or illegal. My tendecies are conservative just as many of those named in the article. The difference is that i believe that that these battles must be fought on a state-to-state level as outlined in Article 10.
Once you allow these battles to be fought in the Federal arena you give a huge amount of power to the Presidency, Congress and the Supreme Court and you get people like Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, George Voinovich and Orrin Hatch, feckless power grabbers. It’s why the US Gov’t along with their compatriots in crime UAW winds up owning GM.


11 posted on 02/24/2010 4:48:13 AM PST by Scoutdad
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To: Rockingham

“As your comments suggest, the target of the piece and of lifestyle libertarians is social conservatives within the GOP. This is not coalition building toward an effective political majority in power but opportunistic factionalism that risks a destructive battle between libertarians and social conservatives.”

I agree.

But there is a simple solution: State’s Rights. It’s the original basis of our government, with a relatively weak central gov’t.

Take the federal gov’t out of the equation for all the issues of morality, whether it be pot or porn or whatever, and let the states decide on those things. I think most states already have laws in place for those types of issues.


12 posted on 02/24/2010 4:50:14 AM PST by webstersII
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To: Scoutdad

Right on, Dad, Right on.......most here do not realize that the states are supposed to hold the power, not the fed. Yet few here will acknowledge this litte known constitutional issue....social conservatives are actually closet nanny staters...


13 posted on 02/24/2010 4:52:17 AM PST by joe fonebone (CPAC.....Commies Playing At Conservatism)
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To: joe fonebone
I have been shouting this from the rooftops for years now. I have noticed that lately, there is an orchestrated attack by social conservatives against anything remotely libertarian on this site.

The Constitution cannot survive in an immoral environment. For example, who will clean up the dead druggies off the street? Is it the responsibility of government (taxpayers)? The people living in the neighborhood? Who will be responsible for this burden?
What about VD's. Who will stop the plague? Who will pay the doctors bills for those infected if they're poor? Who will raise the diseased children, or pay to abort them?
Immorality leads to a nation of sloth, filth, dependency, and chaos. How would be rid ourselves of it?
IF people were to be self accountable in this age, it would work, but that's not how it is. Self accountability has been bread out of America by the public schools, the social programs, and the absent parents. It would take generations to correct it.

14 posted on 02/24/2010 4:53:49 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Scanian

Republicans and Democrats...Conservatives and Liberals...FReepers and DUmmies...They’d all crap their collective pants if we ever had Constitutional governance. All of their favorite social control legislation out the window? Fuggeddaboudit.


15 posted on 02/24/2010 4:56:42 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: joe fonebone
social conservatives are actually closet nanny staters...

Not at all. The essence of social conservativism, of conservatism in general, is that the culture, not the state determines the success of a society. Do social conservatives want more taxes? No. More regulations? No. More funding for government schools? No, they want vouchers and they home school.

16 posted on 02/24/2010 4:57:08 AM PST by Brugmansian
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To: webstersII

It is not what he said but how he said it.

LLS


17 posted on 02/24/2010 4:59:47 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (hussama will never be my president... NEVER!)
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To: webstersII
Take the federal gov’t out of the equation for all the issues of morality, whether it be pot or porn or whatever, and let the states decide on those things. I think most states already have laws in place for those types of issues.

I agree with this. The closer the laws are to home, the better the PEOPLE can keep them in check. If a state finds a certain behavior to be a burden on it's people, it can fix it. It doesn't make sense for people in the Washington beltway to be making laws for those in Montana. They live in two completely different worlds.

18 posted on 02/24/2010 5:00:28 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: webstersII

Everybody’s got a good reason why we just can’t go by the Constitution. Everybody. So here we are.


19 posted on 02/24/2010 5:03:45 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Rockingham

How big does your government need to be that will police what every person decides to do to their body or mind?

I’ll bet it is more money than we have. Now what?


20 posted on 02/24/2010 5:04:15 AM PST by listenhillary (the only reason government wants to be our provider is so it may become our master)
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