Army to court martial 'birther' officer

msnbc ^ | April 13, 2010 | Mark Murray

[Berlin_Freeper]

U.S. military officials tell NBC News that the U.S. Army will court martial a lieutenant colonel who refuses to deploy to Afghanistan because he considers orders from President Obama to be "illegal."

Army doctor Lt. Col. Terry Lakin believes Obama does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president and commander-in-chief

[jamese777]

A clear note of reason in a cacophony of wishful thinking .

Thanks! I try but I love the passion that there is about this issue!

[jamese777]

Dr Chiyome Fukino could not get into medical school without a year of tutoring after college.
http://jabsom.hawaii.edu/jabsom/admissions/special.php
http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/09/29/spotlight-dr-chiyome-leinaala-fukino-m-d/
http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20090606_UH_med_school_program_helps_students_gain_entry.html

nor could she pass her Internal Medicine Boards.
http://www.abim.org/services/physver.aspx
Dr. Chiyome Leinaala Fukino
Internal Medicine
Not Certified
No Certification History
This physician has not completed the requirements for ABIM certification.

Her area of expertise is Huna and E Ola Mau , native Hawaiian healing , which includes ,chanting , herbal medicine and massage .
http://papaolalokahi.org/coconut/news/pdf/POL_chronology.pdf,

Dr Fukino advocated amending Hawaiian law to allow new mothers to take home their placentas so they could bury the afterbirth ( the ‘iewe ) to ward off devils.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/02/11/news/story02.html

posted on another thread

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And Dr. Fukino is the appointee as Director of Health of the Republican Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle who spoke at the Republican National Convention, endorsed John McCain and campaigned for him. Any and all birth documents in the state of Hawaii are under Dr. Fukino’s administrative control.

[jamese777]

Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health needs to google what is a natural born citizen....

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Why? If there were to be a different definition of the term, don’t you think that the US Supreme Court would have entertained one of the seven Obama eligibility lawsuits that have already reached them for Justices’ conferences?

The Supreme Court has rejected them all and it only takes four justices to agree to grant a Writ of Certiorari and hear a case before the full court. That means even the conservatives on the high bench: Alito, Roberts, Scalia and Thomas aren’t persuaded, let alone Anthony Kennedy.

[edge919]

This was Obama’s birthplace ... well his mother’s.

[El Gato]

They will court martial him, discharge him, and remove his standing to challenge obama

So you think the military trial by Court Martial will be nothing but a show? That he won't be allowed to argue his contention that the orders he is disobeying are unlawful? That he won't be able to obtain witnesses (and documents) for his defense?

I don't think a military judge and Court are likely to go there. They may not in the final analysis agree with him, but they will give him every opportunity to defend himself. As required by both the 6th amendment and the UCMJ.

[SaraJohnson]

Yes we are. And it is frightening. Our first Kenyan fascist President.

[El Gato]

I think you need to look up the legal definition of “prima facie”. Just google it.

I did. From Lectric Law Library

PRIMA-FACIE, EVIDENCE, CASE Latin for "at first view."

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

Which is pretty to what the other poster wrote.

Even as it is, the document contains a warning that it is merely “prima facie”—threshold, rebuttable and thus inconclusive —evidence of birth

It can be rebutted. For instance if it did not agree with an original long form certificate. It's even possible that while a legitimate representation of the original document on file with the state, that document itself could itself have been fraudulently filed, to establish citizenship for a child who would otherwise not be entitled to it.

[Pilsner]

So you think the military trial by Court Martial will be nothing but a show? That he won't be allowed to argue his contention that the orders he is disobeying are unlawful? That he won't be able to obtain witnesses (and documents) for his defense?

So you think that the United States Army will set itself up as the final arbitrator of just who is, and is not, the lawful President of the United States? If so, OK. The world needs all kinds.

If not, then, no, he won't get jack. The Congress of the United States examines the election results, and decides who was lawfully elected President. If the Army refuses to second guess Congress, and it will, then LTC Lakin is SOL. The evidence Birthers seek won't be relevant to any issue the Court Martial will adjudicate, and the defense has no right to conduct discovery concerning irrelevant matters.

Folks, there is a reason why competent attorneys, like Mark Levin, who threatened to sue if Congress "deemed" that Obama Care had passed, without taking a vote, don't support Birtherism.

And it is not that they have all been bought off.

I appreciate LTC Lakin's many years of service. I hope he is independently wealthy, and if not, I hope the Birthers who convinced him to toss away his pension on a, what's the word?

A really futile and stupid gesture?

Yeah, that it, will pass the hat, and raise enough money to make up for his lost pension and health care.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Great point. Lakin needs to be treated as potential martyr "

Yes indeed, that's the key praise, Lakin being a Martyr as long as this administration, opps, this regime persecutes him.
Making him a martyr will make this issue grow larger and more vocal.

[DontTreadOnMe2009]

Does this help?

http://www.jrnyquist.com/media/FifeLeary_Int-1.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJty-It1cS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSQD_E5cegw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL1a5KvHdu8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Taxa4vkPd_E&feature=related

http://www.jrnyquist.com/media/FifeLeary_Int-1.mp3

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http://s668.photobucket.com/albums/vv47/MissieBessie/?action=view&current=postandmail-2.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/stevesharp2918/possibleBHOKenyanBC—18018714-03118.jpg

[jamese777]

Yep, that’s what prima facie evidence means but since no one has ever bothered to subpoena Obama’s birth records, we may never know if there are any grounds for rebuttal.

According to Hawaii law and the law in just about every state, there can be no deviation in information between a vault copy birth certificate and a computer generated copy. In fact the information on the computer generated copy must come directly from the vault birth certificate.
The only constitutionally relevant information from a birth certificate for eligibility to be president is date of birth and place of birth. That’s on the computer generated copy in every state.

[El Gato]

So you think that the United States Army will set itself up as the final arbitrator of just who is, and is not, the lawful President of the United States?

A military court must follow the rules for Courts Martial and the UCMJ. Those specify that it is an affirmative defense that an order not followed was un lawful. They must let him present his defense. If he loses, he can appeal, just like in a civilian court.

In fact if the sentence involves dismissal, appeal is automatic.

The most the Court could do, is to declare the order illegal due to the ineligibility of the ultimate order giver. Either on appeal or at trial, or both.

They could not remove him. But given such a finding, upheld by the Supreme Court, would certainly pressure him to step down, because it would mean other other military need not obey his orders either.

[El Gato]

Yep, that’s what prima facie evidence means but since no one has ever bothered to subpoena Obama’s birth records, we may never know if there are any grounds for rebuttal.

There is always a first time. This might be the time.

[Blanton]

I think we need to oppose Obama based on reality. If you’re unwilling to accept the proof provided by Hawaiian officials that Obama was born there, then what’s the point of continually asking for proof? The only attempt to challenge his legitamacy in court was not only thrown out due to it’s utter lack of merit, the lawyer was fined for taking up the court’s time. It’s a shame it has come to this. Military service men actually convinced Obama is not legitamate due to the relentless repetition of the lie.

[PA-RIVER]

What if an officer of the court asks the president to release his birth records from Hawaii, and he refuses?

If they then convict, I think this guy would have standing in a civilian court.

It may take a year, but I think this may cause our Kenyan president some trouble.

[Pilsner]

A military court must follow the rules for Courts Martial and the UCMJ. Those specify that it is an affirmative defense that an order not followed was un lawful. They must let him present his defense.

I know all that.

One of the many things Birthers can never seem to grasp is that the United States Constitution gives Congress the final say in vetting the election, or appointment, of every constitutional officer. Congress decides (in the event of a dispute) who won elections to Congress. Congress has a veto power over appointments to be a Federal Judge, Ambassador's, Cabinet Secretary, or General. Congress decides who was elected President and Vice President.

If Congress makes the wrong call about the results on an election, too bad. You can elect a new Congress, or you can raise the banner of revolution, but you can't get any court, Federal, Martial, or Night, to over rule Congress.

And just how are LTC Lakin's orders "unlawful"? If BO being President makes orders to deploy overseas unlawful, then so are all other orders. You can't cherry pick, and say "Orders posting me to Hawaii are good. Orders promoting me are great! Orders to pay me are absolutely fine. But, orders deploying me overseas of unlawful."

[SentForth5]

I do believe God, the Father of Lights, is using the usurper to separate the wheat from the chaff.

But I love the comment all the same!

[Pilsner]

There is always a first time. This might be the time.

This won't be the time.

I've posted this before, but if Birthers really want a day in court, as opposed to wasting time by aiding Obama by talking up hopeless lawsuits, and endlessly spinnning conspiracy theories about why they keep losing those hopeless lawsuits, the answer is straight forward.

Form a political party. Study up on ballot access laws, and select several states where it is relatively easy to get on the ballot to run for President. Then go out and do some work, circulating petitions and the like, and get the Birther candidate on the ballot. Then, assuming BO is the Democrat nominee, the Birther candidate will have standing, in those states, to sue to get BO off the ballot.

I'm saying you should do so. It will be a waste of time, money and effort, far better spent nominating, and electing good Republicans. But for a couple of weeks, you would have BO in court. Not as Disgruntled Conspiracy Theorist v. POTUS, but on equal footing, as Candidate A v. Candidate B, in ballot access litigation. Birthers would have finally achieved standing, and have an opportunity for a trial on the merits of their claim.

[Pilsner]

ooops, should have read:

I'm NOT saying you should do so.

[usurper]

That is my understanding.

You may be right, unfortunately the constitution does not clearly define “natural born” and the Supreme Court has never ruled on the matter. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.