Posted on 06/11/2010 7:43:40 AM PDT by Willie Green
The efficiency of rail is dependent on the huge mass of the train to give it great momentum that requires only the energy to overcome rail friction to keep going. That is what gives you 700 mpg. That number is reduced with each stop. It is the reason that they did not stop trains to collect mail in the old days, but grabbed it as the train passed by. Rail is great only for cargo travel over long distances with few stops. A bus is more efficient for short hops and stops.
Gov Doyle in Wisconsin has been trying so hard to get rail from Chicago, through Milwaukee and Madison, and dreaming of going to Minneapolis/St. Paul. It has been a big debacle here, and even if the Feds were to completely fund the construction, the ticket prices would be outrageous just on the maintenance costs. It is all just a waste.
Seraphicaviary
The highway funds are stripped by the workers and contractors being paid out of the fund and by the congressmen who award them the contracts.
I don’t think the highway cheerleaders are any different from the government funded railroad cheerleaders. Just choosing a different poison. Both need billion$ of government money. Both are controlled by traffic lights. Both are granted their land by politicians for political reasons.
“At 25 mpg, a personal vehicle would have to carry 28 passengers to have the equivalent fuel efficiency of a train.”
I’ve seen one of those. Isn’t it called a bus?
I remember living in Denmark - wonderful integrated bus-train system - every unit timed to meet others at interchange points.
Time from home to office by bus-train-bus was 75 minutes. Time by car was 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know what it is in Danish Euroland today, but in those days car purchase was 'encouraged' by a 150% (I seem to remember) sales tax. (It was a pure coincidence that all cars had to be imported.)
““Trains work in Europe because they’ve taxed fuel to $7.00 per Gallon.”
Do you mean $7.00 per LITER, which is about $19.00 per gallon! /s “
And the real funny thing is that Europe is a whole lot closer the persian gulf than we are.... Wonder what is making gas so expensive there??????????????
My car get’s far less milage in city driving then highway driving too. It is just a number and probably little far fetched but you cannot deny that rail is more fuel efficient.
My point is that highways cost just as much to build and operate. But it is what the people want.....for now.
Do you understand the difference is only their immense taxes?
That being said, it is not a Federal responsibility and it should be able to stand on its own in the marketplace.
I do favor the Federal government establishing a high speed rail standard for the 50 states (57 if you’re Obama) as is their role under Article I Section 8. At least with a federal standard, if states decided to link up their high speed rail networks, they would already be compatible.
I am very close to agreeing with your view.
I do, however, believe that there is a legitimate federal role in providing funding for acquiring rights-of-way and constructing the railway track and infrastructure. In most cases, the private sector would be more efficient at operating the vehicles and rolling stock that travel on that infrastructure.
This model would be more consistant with how we fund our airways, highways and navigable waterways.
Decades as Chicago Rail Chief (was called to testify.. may have taken just 56K) stepped in front of a train one morning in a romote area, one witness. Insiders & their knowledge (investors like in the Games) in the "Path of Progress".
Money and sucicide(s) make for a deadly cocktail in ChicagoLand Politics.
MPG is also based on averages.
“Do you understand the difference is only their immense taxes? “
Really, I thought the blam was America and George Bush’s Fault....
/sarc
That makes sense. I’ll ask permission from Mr. Green to revise and extend my remarks. :)
You are correct. This is about concentrating populations and restricting mobility.
http://www.siemens.com/sustainability/en/understanding/international_guidelines.htm#toc-5
Yep, and in order to get the OK to build the rail through the intervening states and counties the builders would have to agree to stop in every town.
This is what happened with the multibillion dollar tax sucking white elephant light rail system in my old home town (Miami) - it's a 22 mile system with 22 stations, and there are no expresses - every trip stops everywhere.
“You can’t say that about your highway. Talk about government control.”
When speaking of the highways, you are correct. However, almost EVERY SINGLE sub-division road was built by the original developer. So, you can’t even get out of your driveway, to get to your train station, if not for private developers.
“The highway funds don’t cover the cost of maintaining or building highways anymore. The haven’t for some time.”
The passenger fees have not covered the cost of maintaining or building the trains and tracks and MOST stations! That’s why my taxes help pay for people to ride Amtrak!
Still have to get to and from the station (never mind all the waits involved at the stations and en route).
This is the problem you refuse to address, Willie: getting to/from the train takes about as long as just driving to the destination!
High speed rail from Atlanta to Savannah? Show me how that is going to take less than five hours door-to-door.
High speed rail from Atlanta to Syracuse? Oh, right, won’t be any because high speed rail is a linear solution to an area problem. Even if there was, it would still take more than 14 hours door to door.
Every way I look at it it’s still easier faster cheaper to just pile the family into the SUV.
As stated up thread, $7.00 per liter.
Trains work in Europe because they are much smaller than we are (both in Geography and physiology). Travel distances are minimal (What's the driving time from Paris to Munich? 4 hours maybe. Whats the driving time from DC to Chicago? 12 hours?)
They have greatly decreased personal space requirements. Interpersonal space in Germany is about 12" here it is 18" to 24".
They don't mind being crammed into small spaces with lots of stinky people they'd normally not associate with. Because they've been forced to live that way since feudal days. High speed rail is a really cool technoilogy that solves no real world problem. It will NEVER work in these united States outside of theme parks.
Might I ask why you are posting for a failed idea?
The last time this came up, there were accurate, detailed, and definitive reasons posted as to why the trains you are advocating are a bad idea.
If you are convinced they are a good idea, can we see the data?
Add up all the cars and buses driving to the station and back again - the mileage takes a big hit.
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