Posted on 07/08/2010 3:45:12 PM PDT by tonysamm
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Police in Daytona Beach have asked area gun shops to provide the personal information of everyone who bought a certain type of handgun in 2004 and 2005.
Police believe four women killed between December 2004 and January 2008 were shot by the same killer.
Laquetta Gunther, Julie Green, Iwana Patten and Stacey Gage were all shot with the same gun, according to police, so finding the person with that gun is vital to their investigation.
Daytona Beach police sent a letter to gun shop owners asking for names, addresses, birth dates and phone numbers of anyone who bought a specific Smith and Wesson .40-caliber handgun.
The co-owner of Buck's Guns, Scott Buckwald, said he complied because investigators only wanted specific info to solve a very serious case.
"I made my records available to them," Buckwald said. "It appeared to me the police were doing a specific investigation looking for a specific gun, a specific model there. They didn't come in on a fishing expedition."
Still, the police request has riled the National Rifle Association.
A spokesperson in Tallahasse called the request a clear "violation of gun owner rights."
Some shoppers in the store did not want to speak on camera, but felt if they ended up on such a list, they'd be unfairly labeled suspects in a string of unsolved murders. Copyright 2010 by WESH.COM. All rights reserved. This material may not be published
killed between December 2004...
So they are also looking for a suspect that purchased a handgun after the first murder was committed with it?
Wrong< Batfe does not have that info.
“Wrong< Batfe does not have that info.”
All NICS checks are in the BATFE database. So, yes, they do have that info.
You are correct. Here in CA, however, we do have handgun registration.
Betcha all the cash I’m carrying the perp didn’t buy the gun from a licensed dealer.
Wrrong, all ATF gets to know is if it is a long gun or a hand gun. Makes, models and calibers are not given to the ATF,
Firearms trace data is critically important information developed by ATF to assist state and local law-enforcement in investigating and solving violent crimes. This data tracks the transfer of a firearm from the manufacturer to the gun’s first purchaser, and can assist law enforcement in ultimately pinpointing the individual who used the gun to commit a particular crime.
During the investigation of the recent Virginia Tech incident, ATF provided the Virginia State Police (VSP) with trace information that allowed the VSP to determine where and from whom Seung-Hui Cho purchased the two handguns he used in the shootings. Firearms trace information was also used to solve a theft of 22 firearms from a security service in Atlanta that were subsequently purchased by an undercover police officer on the streets of New York.
ATF considers this information law-enforcement-sensitive because it is often the first investigative lead in a case. We treat it no differently than fingerprint matches and other crime-scene information, since disclosure outside of law enforcement can tip off criminals to the investigation, compromise cases and endanger the lives of undercover officers, witnesses and confidential sources.
Our agency routinely shares trace data with state and local law-enforcement agencies in support of investigations within their respective jurisdictions. Once a requesting agency receives law-enforcement-sensitive trace data from ATF, it becomes the agency’s data to disseminate and share with other law-enforcement entities as it deems appropriate.
Let me be clear: neither the congressional language nor ATF rules prohibit the sharing of trace data with law enforcement conducting criminal investigations, or place any restrictions on the sharing of trace data with other jurisdictions once it is in the hands of state or local law enforcement. In fact, multi-jurisdictional trace data is also utilized by ATF and shared with fellow law-enforcement agencies to identify firearm-trafficking trends and leads. Additionally, nothing prohibits ATF from releasing our own reports that analyze trace-data trends that could be used by law enforcement.
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/22041
You are still missiong it. Trace data is a top down trail, from manufacturer, thru distruibutor(s) to guns shop, so in other words, the police need the serial number of the gun in order to get trace data from the BATFE. Then they go to the gunshop and seek the 4473 for that serial numbered firearm, which is maintained by the gunshop indefintely, (until they close, then 4473s are archived in a warehouse somewhere....)
So, no trace data won’t help UNLESS the serial number is known.
Best.
The store owner who sold at least one gun to Seung-Hui Cho (the Glock?) was on a gun forum that night. It dawned on him that his shop sold it and that was before he was contacted. For all I know, he might have made the call.
Most of the trace info is gathered after the fact. They allready know most of the time who the shooter was.
Does it really matter where they brought their gun from. I guess only if you are interisted in violating the 2nd amendment.
Most trace info realy does not help in solveing a crime.
The recovery of the 22 firearms most likely was from a NCIB stolen firearm file check rather a BATFE trace. Traceing that firearm back to the security firm wouldn’t solve anything. Expect to prove it was sold to the security firm. I lot faster check is NCIB check that take seconds and doesn’t involve a middle man.
Atf Say they don’t keep that info. That’s their story and they be sticken to it.
What is unique about a S&W in .40 cal? Or is it the Caliber is .40 S&W/
barbra ann
This information is retained by the FFL dealer, the only info the ATF gets is the name and other pertinent ID info of the buyer and if the firearm is a long gun or handgun. In turn the dealer gets a reply of either approved or denied for the transaction. Again, the retailer retains this form for his records only and it is not forwarded to any federal agency.
next time,
use a revolver
It's illegal for them to keep NICS info, but the federal government does not have to obey the law, you know that.
BATFE can not supply that information. They don’t have it. If Florida used the F.B.I. instant check, the best the feds could come up with is the fact that a specific person bought a handgun, not what it is or what caliber it fires.
Florida uses the state Department of Law Enforcement, F.D.L.E., for the instant checks. It really does destroy its instant check records. We see this with a few customers who get a delay response every time they buy a gun.
Honestly, the 4473s don’t really matter much here, beyond the legislative requirement that the records must be maintained. Other than that, they’re business records and if the store owner won’t show them to the cops, the records can be subpoenaed. In this regard, it’s the same as if a suspect bought a coil of rope at a hardware store, or built a bomb with a timer he boought at Radio Shack.
If the suspect bought something that was used in the crime and the store owner has a record of it, the cops have every right to the information. The store can providce it or the courts can force the disclosure.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.