Panel says women should be allowed in combat units

Associated Press ^ | Jan. 14, 2011 | PAULINE JELINEK

[Free ThinkerNY]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A military advisory commission is recommending that the Pentagon do away with a policy that bans women from serving in combat units, breathing new life into a long-simmering debate.

[goldstategop]

HELL NO, this worse than gays in the military. At least men are men under fire. Now they have to look after the girls? This is more social engineering to make our armed forces politically correct!

[goldstategop]

Yup... and no woman is going to have the stamina to persist under fire... to say nothing of life in a foxhole. This is beyond stupid.

[goldstategop]

Israeli women are given training to defend themselves. That’s are far as it goes.

[S. Ruger]

I’ve served under female NCOs and officers I’d follow into battle.

[GingisK]

Skill at arms is a human thing,

There is a bit more to combat than "arms". To mention a few:

1 - Bringing heavy ammo boxes over in a hurry.
2 - Getting the big wounded guys to safety.
3 - Continuing the fight even when the ammo is gone.
4 - Climbing up everything you can think of with ones's pack and a few pieces of "common property" as well.
5 - Changing a big tire while under duress.
6 - Making big piles of sandbags.
7 - Digging for China in gravel with enough room around the bore hole for crew served weapons.
8 - Dragging heavy stuff everywhere for any reason.

Folks are welcome to expand the list.

[Doe Eyes]

Does Sarah Palin take a position on this?

[Mr Rogers]

What percentage of women have the muscle strength to handle combat? 1%?

Standards will be lowered, and women will then be killed where a man would not have been...

[Mr Rogers]

“Skill at arms is a human thing, I need to trust a Person, without any other qualification.”

You need to trust they can do COMBAT DUTY, which the vast majority of women are not strong enough to handle!

[fr_freak]

What’d I say about ‘fulfillment’ or ‘opportunity’? Pass the test, meet the team. No ‘sport’, dude.

By that, I meant that, as far as women in the military combat units go, it's not just a matter of whether a woman could learn fighting skills at the level of men (which would be rare, indeed) but whether she could also function as the member of a unit AND whether the other members of the unit could function properly in combat with her present. This would be darn near impossible, both due to the nature of women and due to the nature of men with regards to women. The drive to include women in combat units, in my opinion, is driven by the fact that personnel in combat units gain rank and prestige faster and since we let women join the military, in general, the PC crowd now sees the exclusion of women from combat units as a barrier to women's advancement opportunities within the service. The effectiveness of those units appears to be a secondary consideration.

[fr_freak]

I’ve served under female NCOs and officers I’d follow into battle.

Not to demean your service, but obviously you were not in a combat unit if you served under women, and therefore are not fully familiar with the requirements or realities in the field, nor were your superiors. In other words, you have no idea how those women would have performed under any combat-related operations, even in training, and so you couldn't possibly know that they'd be worth following into battle. Just because you liked them and they could kick ass with the paper pushing, doesn't mean they would have made good battlefield commanders.

[Candor7]

Israeli women are given training to defend themselves. That’s are far as it goes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not true. They are fully trained as infantry soldiers in the Caracal Battalion of Israel’s SOuthern Command , deployed on the Southern border in active, direct combat duty to secure the border constantly.No small task.See my posts 56 and 57 , this thread.

But I do not favor all women combat units in the US forces.
Our women to do not have the spirit and dedication to such sacrifice as Israeli women do as a matter of their history.
It is a desperate history, in which their whole race was threatened with extinction, and American women have no such motivation.........yet. Perhaps Obama will give it to them in due course, but they do not have that yet.

If Obama has his way, we will be invaded by Venezualans and their Muslim allies, with the help of the Chinese.Then maybe US women will have the historical motivation to enter combat as some Israeli women voluntarily do in the Caraal Battalion. American women have never had the blood lust to volunteer for combat as infantry soldiers, not even the most ardent feminists here in the USA have called for it.Its butcher’s work and a butcher’s bill to be paid in female blood.Thats too high a price for even the likes of US feminists, who would rather continue to let US men do the dying to pay the butchers bill of combat.

[fortheDeclaration]

Israeli women are not on frontline combat units. They are on the home reserve.

[Seven plus One]

...in general, the PC crowd now sees the exclusion of women from combat units as a barrier to women's advancement opportunities within the service.

You are absolutely right. I do not believe that women can function as members of a combat unit, that the integrity of the unit will be compromised when the focus inevitably turns to protecting the women, their lives and their sensibilities, and that under the pressure of battle utter disaster is likely. A (small) number of women might make the grade in a practical sense, but as you point out, there is much more to consider.
The PC brigades will not go away on their own, they need to be made irrelevant first. They need to recognize, once and for all, that the services are not a sociology project or a political experiment. This needs to be gotten out of the way before:
A- PC assumptions become institutionalized,
B- The shit hits the fan in a big way somewhere in the world.
The feminists out there are for combat service for women in the same vein as Charlie Rangel was for the draft; to eventually use the cause as a public relations weapon to discredit the armed services and turn a greater part of the public to the pacifist view.

[fortheDeclaration]

While many troops see Caracal as a publicity stunt and a sop to the feminists, the unit has performed well, and has a reputation as a non-nonsense and reliable outfit.

Really?

What combat have they seen?

[Candor7]

The Caracal Battalion os a front line Combat Unit, about 90% women, according to the IDF organizational charts.

I can’t change facts my FRiend.

They are deployed on Israel’s Southern border and do a far better job than we do on our SOuthern border with Mexico, IMHO.

They do not have a lot of combat history only having been formed in 2000, but they did take part in the evacuation of Gaza in 2005, many under fire.That was a non combat operation, which as you may know, had combat.

What else can I say? Sheesh. The Israelis have women posted in fromt line combat positions along the SOuthern Border of Israel.Thats a stone cold fact.

Just google Caracal Battalion and see for yourself.

[Candor7]

Got your dander up eh? LOL.

Google “Caracal Battalion” and read for yourself.

[fortheDeclaration]

I did and I found no mention of actual combat actions.

I saw them engaged in removing settlers.

Having a unit described as being combat ready and actually engaging in combat are two different things.

[Candor7]

I have never been hasty to see any military unit have to pay the butchers bill.The Caracal Battalion is merely 10 years old, and perhaps only 5 years at near full strength.The battalion has been built slowly and carefully , as all good units should be. I am sure they will be bloodied soon enough, the way things are going
in the ME.

Give it a few more years, and we will see how they discharge their duties.

I do not approve of women in combat, but through out history there have been female cadres who engaged in combat.
I do not think women by their very nature are meant to take life, they are meant to create it. That is their primry role in the continuity of human kind. But for those who are combat designated,I wish nothing more than they have the preparation necessary to have a fighting chance to survive.

It will be a sad day indeed if political correctness designates American women to the role of full combat.I hope never to see it.

[Condor51]

Bullshit!

[PapaBear3625]

I found a video report about the Caracal Battalion. It functions as a border patrol unit rather than being anticipated for use as front-line combat duties. Some cute women there.