Posted on 04/20/2011 7:58:33 AM PDT by Smokeyblue
Michele Bachmann moved Wednesday toward saying the book on questions some voters have about President Barack Obama's birth certificate is closed, and that a copy of his certification of live birth should "settle" the issue.
Bachmann made the comments on ABC News' "Good Morning America," when host George Stephanopoulos noted she had said on Fox News a night earlier that the president ought to come forward with his birth certificate to settle the "birther" issue, which had largely died down in the mainstream media but picked up steam again when Donald Trump began pushing it.
SNIP
Stephanopoulos then showed her Obama’s certification of live birth, which Team Obama got from Hawaiian officials during the 2008 campaign. Skeptics have taken issue with that document, but it is the legal equivalent to a birth certificate in Hawaii.
"I have the president’s certificate right here," he said. "It’s certified, it’s got a certification number. It’s got the registrar of the state signed. It’s got a seal on it. And it says 'this copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.'"
Bachmann replied, "Well, then that should settle it."
"So it’s over?" the host asked.
"That’s what should settle it," she said. "I take the president at his word and I think — again I would have no problem and apparently the president wouldn’t either. Introduce that, we’re done. Move on."
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
OK
“He was born in a hospital in Hawaii and the birth announcements prove it”
‘prove’ is strong, I’ve used the term ‘corroborate’ as in corroborating the COLB. But the whole sum of evidence does lead us to a conclusion that is clear. Shown below.
” (though we don’t really know which of the two (two) he was born in due to conflicting statements)”
Birth announcement doesnt indicate. However, its not true that there were conflicting statements, the family has said it was Kapiolani.
” as only the DoH can send in info to the newspapers for birth announcements. “
Correct.
“If the DoH does get birth info from somewhere other than a hospital, it weakens the desired narrative of how the birth announcements were printed. One leg of the Obamarama is gone as it shows that someone could be born outside of a hospital and still have a birth announcement printed.”
This is correct. BUT ... the key point is ‘someone’.
This is a hypothetical. The question is what evidence affirms or undermines the possibility.
So let’s go through the logical sequence of what the newspaper announcement DOES tell us and why it’s highly dispositive to Obama being born in Honolulu:
1) The Newspaper announcements prove that someone either phoned in a birth announcement or it was gotten from DOH records.
2) The practice and the format and the category of the birth announcements, and the fact that 2 newspapers had similar lists in exact same order, indicate that in fact these announcements were derived from DOH records.
3) This indicates that DOH indeed *had* records on Obama’s birth.
4) Confirming this, we know DOH has Obama’s records on file today.
This information is public:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
Birth Index
Obama II, Barack Hussein
Male
5) WE FURTHER KNOW A VERY IMPORTANT POINT - those records were submitted/filed/accepted between Aug 4th and Aug 13th, the newspaper publication date, so the Obama birth records were created during that week.
6) I would submit to you that #5, #3 and #4 are the MOST IMPORTANT POINTS. You can try to fake something in your past, but you cant go back into your past to do it. Obama has had Hawaii birth records since August 13th (or before) 1961. Key!
6) So, then we consider the COLB - it has a filing date of Aug 8th, consistent with #5.
7) On the COLB the birth cert # for Obama is close to Nodyke twins coming from Kapiolani on same day. This tells us that at least its not some randomly wrong number. But it also is a strong indicator that Obama was born in Kapiolani as well, as his form was either in a similar or same batch or processed at similar time, which would happen with forms from same hospital.
8) The COLB information is not inconsistent with the newspaper announcement information (despite the false disputing of his parents’ marriage)
9) In order to get a DOH record, if you just walk it in, you will need the corroborating evidence, which the original birth certificate and information from the birthing doctor or midwife. Such forms would have to brought in to their office. Both #7 and the timeline is why a birth outside Honolulu is practically impossible. You’d have to fly the mother, the baby, and the original birth certificate to the DOH by August 13th at the latest, in order to get the DOH records. Why would a newborn son have to travel with their mother and risk sickness from a flight halfway across the pacific, just to get a DOH record in time for a pro forma tiny birth announcement? They wouldnt. They couldnt. They’d wait and do it later.
10) There might be a theoretical possibility of a midwife home delivery in Honolulu and then a walkup submission of birth certificate, but then that fact would have been the family recollection; rather the family story is that Barack Obama was born at Kapiolani. Again, any such submission would not have been done as quickly as with a hospital; there’s no rush. Moreover, he’d still be born in Honolulu. For any non-hospital delivery outside of hawaii, phew, #9 plus the problem of getting the right paperwork to get state records.
So, there it is: the timeline is why the newspaper announcements help confirm that Obama was born in Honolulu.
Obama had Hawaii records on file (in fact according to the COLB 4 days after birth) that would not have been created so soon after his birth if he was not born in a hospital in Hawaii.
There are always doubts, but doubts doesnt exclude the possibility of KNOWLEDGE.
Epistemology!
Happy Easter!
However, its not true that there were conflicting statements, the family has said it was Kapiolani.
BS! Obama birth mystery: More than 1 hospital
His own sister has said he was born at Queen's instead of Kapiolani.
This is correct. BUT ... the key point is ‘someone’. This is a hypothetical.
It isn't hypothetical. Someone can do it.
You need to look at your own "someone" as emphasized above before you start lecturing others.
The question is what evidence affirms or undermines the possibility.
Ummmm...reality.
I'll answer the rest of this later. I've got dinner to cook.
You know, you havent directly answered many of the questions I’ve asked you ...
That's okay, you haven't directly answered many of the questions I’ve asked you either.
You cannot PROVE it didnt happen that way, can you?
Can you answer an "it"?
at least we agree on one thing - the DOH yes, really does have records on file for Barack Obama’s birth, right?
I'm not sure we're in agreement on much of anything on this issue.
Do you KNOW what the closet star to the sun is?
Do you know what the nearest/closest star to the sun is? And Do you know how far away it is? = Can I borrow your car keys?
What has this got to do with the subject at hand? = What do you want to borrow my car for?
“1) The Newspaper announcements prove that someone either phoned in a birth announcement or it was gotten from DOH records.
You’re already contradicting yourself”
“...and now you’re saying someone can phone it in?”
No, for completeness I put it out as a theoretical possibility in #1, then I laid out the exclusion of that in point #2. The newspaper announcements did in fact come from DOH records.
1) X or Y happened.
2) X is excluded, therefore Y happened.
“What do you want to borrow my car for? “
An epistemological exploration, that’s why.
“His own sister has said he was born at Queen’s instead of Kapiolani. “
No she didn’t. A high-school junior ‘journalist’ wrote that in a story by copying bad info from Wikipedia, it didn’t come from her:
http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2010/02/birther-mythbusting-maya-soetoro-and.html
“the Rainbow Edition Newsletter is nothing more than a high school newspaper. The article in question was written not by a reporter, and not by a colleague of Maya Soetoro, but by a high school junior.
Additionally, what is immediately obvious upon actually viewing the article is that the “Queens Medical Center” reference is not a quote from Maya at all. It’s simply referenced in the introductory paragraph.”
“His own sister has said he was born at Queen’s instead of Kapiolani. “
No she didn’t. A high-school junior ‘journalist’ wrote that in a story by copying bad info from Wikipedia, it didn’t come from her:
http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2010/02/birther-mythbusting-maya-soetoro-and.html
“the Rainbow Edition Newsletter is nothing more than a high school newspaper. The article in question was written not by a reporter, and not by a colleague of Maya Soetoro, but by a high school junior.
Additionally, what is immediately obvious upon actually viewing the article is that the “Queens Medical Center” reference is not a quote from Maya at all. It’s simply referenced in the introductory paragraph.”
Well I don’t want my car used for that.
“News accounts”, ie wikipedia and a high school newspaper, not his sister.
Continuing with the Obot talking points are you???
“Here we see nothing but excuses for not releasing Obama’s long-form, hospital generated birth certificate which I will call his “real birth certificate.” This is not to be confused with a short-form Certification of Live Birth (COLB) dated June 2007 which Obama released on the internet in 2008, which does not contain the name of the birth hospital and the names and signatures of the delivery doctor and other witnesses to the birth.”
“The newspaper birth announcements are not evidence of a birth in Hawaii. At best they are evidence that the Hawaii Department of Health put those ads in the newspapers based on a birth being registered as having occurred in Hawaii. The announcements are not the product of a medically verified birth in Hawaii. They do not have a direct link to the birth hospital.”
“Why does Obama not want the public to see his real birth certificate or to learn that no real birth certificate exists? The real birth certificate could reveal information that puts into serious doubt that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii. The absence of a real birth certificate could also put into serious doubt his claim that he was actually born in Hawaii. Or the real birth certificate could contain information that is highly embarrassing to Obama and which could put in jeopardy his life narrative that he has put into the public. Whatever could be the truth of Obama’s problem, the American people whom the President serves are entitled to know which one of those truths it is.”
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/04/attorney-apuzzo-analysis-of-current.html
FREE THE LONG FORM!!!
No talking points, just a logical conclusion.
The key point made is that the State of Hawaii had Obama’s birth record filed before Aug 13th, 1961, less than 10 days after he was born. If you want to dispute that point, fine, but your cut-n-paste talking points are not responsive to that point.
You stated this:
“... they (The newspaper birth announcements) are evidence that the Hawaii Department of Health put those ads in the newspapers based on a birth being registered as having occurred in Hawaii.”
I agree with that point.
No talking points, just a logical conclusion.
Garbage in, garbage out. Your conclusion is all based on fabrication and supposition and parsed statements not legally binding under the threat of perjury.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/04/fact-check-this-media-reasons-why-obama.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2709663/posts
The social security fraud, the forged Selective Service Registration etc all tie into a pattern of criminal activity which includes the short form COLB (4 versions have been floated around).
So again, why did Brian Schatz refuse to certify Obama as meeting the constitutional requirements for the presidency in 2008?
“No, that certificatION of live birth is a fraud...
“Im just wanting you to produce the long form birth certificate that you claim Barry Dunham has”
Turns out my claim was correct. Looking forward to your grateful acknowledgement of that.
“I said CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH...
thats a different animal...”
Now that you’ve got your “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH” are you satisfied? It’s what you were wanting to see.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/obamabirthcetgrab.jpg
Now that you’ve got your “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH” are you satisfied? It’s what you were wanting to see.
___________________________________
I havent seen it yet
Why dont you bring it on over and place it in my eager little ol hand ???
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