Posted on 05/15/2011 7:46:45 AM PDT by Second Amendment First
Lorenzo had a hard time concealing his nervousness. Standing in front of a large room packed with Boeing employees in late March, the tall, lanky African American gang member described the arc of his life. At 22, he had spent nearly a third of his life incarcerated.
Peering out of his round, black-rimmed glasses, he talked about his seven months at Homeboy Industries (the largest gang reentry program in the country), and about how he had moved quickly from the janitorial team to become an assistant in the accounting department. "I used to steal money," he said. "Now I'm counting it."
I had the honor of witnessing Lorenzo's seven-month journey from convict to accounting assistant, watching as he became the young man God had in mind when he made him. But despite his remarkable turnaround and the many things he had to offer an employer, Lorenzo's prospects for finding a job outside our program were dim.
Opportunities for second chances are few for people like Lorenzo. Homeboy Industries is about the only game in town. Most employers just aren't willing to look beyond the dumbest or worst thing someone has done.
Another "homie" recently came to me for help after, for the third time, he was let go from a job because his employer had discovered he'd done five years in prison. He told me the boss said, "You're one of our best workers, but we have to let you go." Then, with a desperate sadness, the young man added: "Damn, G. No one told me I'd be getting a life sentence of no work."
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
There ya go!
Hey, why don’t we emulate the Muslims, who have extreme punishments down pat.
Chop off a hand, if they steal a chocolate bar.
Kill them if they do it twice.
We will be a safe and crime free society.
That is the direction America is heading. Hit them hard, hit them vicious, hit them often and never forgive them.
Are you sure your name isn’t Muhammed?
“Gang bangers die all the time. If it was an effective means of deterrence, it would be working right now.”
If they died every time, for awhile, would that be an effective deterrence?
Do you want a justice system like the gangs have their justice system, where people are killed for doing even minor annoyances, to ensure good order?
Then just wait, because that is where your justice system is heading. It has been heading that way for a long time.
Is it working? Is your crime rate heading down?
Do you feel safe in your home?
You cannot have a proper justice system based on punishment alone. All you end up with is a hardened and willful people who are not deterred from punishment to do what they intend to do.
Maybe he can tattoo over it to change it to something like “May I Help You?”
Oh dear, stupid post, guess that was kind of obvious!
“Is it working? Is your crime rate heading down?
Do you feel safe in your home?
You cannot have a proper justice system based on punishment alone. All you end up with is a hardened and willful people who are not deterred from punishment to do what they intend to do.”
I simply asked a question. Your response is a little confusing to me because you seem to be arguing both sides of the debate.
Up thread you use mooslelimb tactics in your example (cutting the hand off a thief). You say that by using those tactics we would have a safe and crime free society. Now you are saying those tactics don’t work and that punishment alone doesn’t work. I’m trying to figure out what your point of view is.
I have taken matters into my own hands at times. I am safer for it. Crimes against me are way, way down. I’m very safe in my home.
If someone, by their own free will, decides to take from me, hurt those I care for, injure or corrupt innocent people - I’ll hurt them. Is that the way it should have to work? No. Can I depend on some gov’t entity to do the right thing? Hardly.
I appreciated your reference to Scripture. I think it’s pretty close to being right on. In the end though the ultimate lesson is that if you do not abide God’s word - you die. You suffer and are eternally damned. No do-overs. You only have so much time to set things right with Him. If you don’t - you lose. That is a pretty good lesson in itself.
Yes I read the greeting. At least he can let his eyebrows grow out when he gets tired of it. Unlike facial tattoos that you can’t hide.
Imagine what a crappy attitude you would have to have to do something like that. What a creep!
I’m not arguing from both sides. I’m arguing for completeness.
Biblical justice puts the victim and the accused on the same level playing field. In principle, whatever the victim has lost, the guilty loses the same way, with retribution thrown in to give some incentive to not commit the acts in the first place.
It is supposed to be balanced, where the victim receives justice and the guilty party is able to find his way back into society, unless the crime the guilty party commits cannot be made up in any way. In which way, death is the only suitable punishment.
When I referred to how Muslims handle crime, it was a sarcastic response to those who think if the punishment is hard, vicious, and often enough, we would create a safe society.
“In principle, whatever the victim has lost, the guilty loses the same way, with retribution thrown in to give some incentive to not commit the acts in the first place.”
That’s really the issue as i see it.
Who gets to decide and deal out the retribution for rape or giving heroin to children or even for making an innocent person afraid to leave their own home?
Who decides what the victim has lost and what that loss is worth to the victim and to society in general? What kind of retribution is due someone sick enough to rape or take an innocent life? What kind of society allows those sickening crimes without dealing with them in harshest way possible?
I just defined for you how the Bible defines justice. If you have a problem with it, it’s not me you have the problem with.
Justice, as defined by the Bible, puts the victim and perp on equal footing before and after, in terms of acts. It doesn’t put them on equal footing in terms of emotional or psychological harm.
God doesn’t promise us perfect justice in this life, only come Judgement day will it be perfect.
I really don’t think you want the victim to decide when they’d be satisfied. That’s how blood feuds happen.
Do you really want to give me the right to decide I should have the right to take your life because I felt wronged because you didn’t say good morning to me?
That’s how it is in the Middle East. You wronged me and I get to decide when my appetite for justice is satisfied. And they do kill you for not saying good morning, at times.
I’m just trying to understand.
I’ve done things in my life that I felt were the right thing to do. I sometimes - more lately - question whether or not God will agree that they were right because I believed I was making the world better, doing the right thing.
It’s something I struggle with. I try to work through it in my own mind but that’s not so easy. I’m not exactly objective.
I agree that there are people who went down a bad path and discovered it before dying or being put in prison for life. The example you gave is a wonderful one. However, I would have been even more impressed if the young man offered a drug test right there and then and offered to take one at any point in time in the future with no discussion or argument. That would have sealed it for me that he was truly trying to show his past lifestyle was, well... one of the past. I hope the best for him in the future.
God does not expect us to create perfect justice, because doing so only ends up creating injustice to somebody else.
He does expect us to be obedient, because it is only being obedient that prevents us to doing more harm to each other than we already do.
MY?
I was merely lamenting the fact that a free ocean cruise was not available to make a new start!
If he spent a third of his life in prison, it says something about his lack of character. Does some counseling really change things or, if things get a little tough, does he steal from the company? I’d rather hire a kid who went to a Jewish or Catholic school who has never been in trouble and who has parents who taught him values.
No, even toddlers learn consequences and no not to do something that you don’t want them to do. Think how very untamed that toddler can be without rules, and rules mean nothing without consequences.
Now schools really don’t have consequences and parents can be put through the social services wringer when little ? decides he/she doesn’t want to follow those rules. Then things go from somewhat controlled to out of control very fast. (can’t touch them ya know)
So when we look at the ‘gang’ bangers we are looking at kids who are looking for no rules and believe it is with the gang, (no grown up rules) the sad part is the consequences if they don’t follow the gang ‘rules’ are much worse then if they had just followed those in school and home. For some reason they think those consequences are ‘cool’ .
For petes sake many young adults are raising kids of their own, including these bangers before they are 25, don’t hide behind crap like saying that young adults don’t know consequences. they do.
Well, maybe he was trying to reach those "at risk" Boeing employees. You know, because the lure of "da club" is just too strong to resist for some of those engineers, as they go about their daily lives of keeping it real by working diligently, paying their taxes, and abstaining from crime...
What we really need is a frontier for these people: somewhere where your past is forgotten, hard work is rewarded, and ruthlessness is a virtue.
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