The greater danger of 'carry' (Wisconsin barf alert)

Milwaukee J-S ^ | 29 june 2011 | John Ridley

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

It is a process. Right now the interest in the carrying of fire arms on a daily basis is relatively new. Once the number of people carrying increases more nuts and hot heads are brought into the pool and as time goes on Dodge City 1870 will return.

Why do you think carrying arms increasingly fell out of favor? Once again even towns in the Old West forbade the carrying of arms. The shoot out at the OK Corral in old Tombstone had as its proximate cause the Earp's going to disarm the Clanton's as the latter were carrying against a Tombstone ordinance. It is not wise. Keep the guns in the house, place of business and maybe the vehicle.

[Emperor Palpatine]

"Life would be a whole lot simpler if our omniscient Founding Fathers had left us a Constitution replete with footnotes, references and Cliffs Notes so it would be clear to all concerned how to correlate the intent of their 1776 utterances with the realities of 2011."


They did: First they gave us an owner's manual called "The Federalist Papers" plus they left many statements giving their intentions quite succinctly.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson Papers (C.J. Boyd, Ed. 1950)

"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as they are injurious to others." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (1781-1785).

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426.

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." -Thomas Jefferson.

"Those who beat their guns into plowshares invariably end up plowing for those who didn't" -Thomas Jefferson

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion...in private self defense..." -John Adams, A defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471 (1788).

"...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them." -Thomas Paine.

"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p322.

"Experience has shswn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." -George Mason

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun. -Patrick Henry.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -Patrick Henry

"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." -Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788).

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

"...the people have a right to keep and bear arms." -Patrick Henry and George Mason, Elliot, Debates at 185.

"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." -James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." -Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169.

"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age..." -Title 10, Section 311 of the U.S. Code.

"The people are nor to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -Zachariah Johnson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson, 'Proposal Virginia Constitution'
,br> "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government..."-Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28).

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution, under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1989
,br> "The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States...Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America." -Benjamin Franklin

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. the supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States." -Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the federal Constitution (1787) in Pamphlets to the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888).

[sarge83]

Reading the readers comments was interesting. One suggested carrying only made people feel more macho and aggressive. Hardly, I have carried for 15 yrs. and I go out of my way to deescalate a situation. I have only had to draw my firearm once in all that time at an ATM and thankfully did not have to fire, the sight of the pistol halted the dirt bag, but I would have fired the goblin not stopped his advance and I would have shot to kill.

Another argument put forth was bless their hearts, they were now going to be surrounded by people carrying guns and were afraid. News flash, you already are, they are called criminals and they carry with the intent of doing bad things, didn’t have a back ground check and no training. CCW just evens the playing field a little and those CCWers are not the ones you have to fear.

Liberals God help them, they think they are the smartest person in the room when they really don’t have enough sense to come in out of a hail storm.

[cayuga]

If many people start carrying guns on a daily basis eventually we will be back to Dodge City 1870.

That's what was said when Florida first made it easy to carry, and it's been said about every state that followed.

It has not happened.

[libstripper]

Starting in about 1995 Tennessee adopted shall issue concealed carry and I got myu permit then. I’ve packed loaded heat in my vehicle ever since then. I’ve never heard or read of any shootout between CCW carriers since then, and TN now has about 250,000 licensed carriers.

[marktwain]

Why do you think carrying arms increasingly fell out of favor?

Because it worked so well that it wasn't needed anymore.

Carrying a gun is a responsibility and a physical impediment. In many states, the crime rate was so low that it just wasn't thought worth while. Add to that:

In the South, it was a plot to disarm black people, knowing that the law would not be applied to white people.

After 1900, it was propaganda by "Progressives" who wanted to disarm the populace.

[absolootezer0]

the problem with the vast majority of union members is that although they tend to be more on the conservative side of most issues, they keep pulling the lever for dems to keep their union pay and benefits.

if the unions were disbanded, the majority would suddenly become republicans.

[cripplecreek]

Michigan’s concealed pistol law - 10 years later

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2741506/posts

They’re saying 270,000 permit holders in Michigan. Add in shotguns and rifles and its a few million at least.

[absolootezer0]

In the South, it was a plot to disarm black people, knowing that the law would not be applied to white people.

stemmed from the black codes. people need to be reminded often and loudly that restriction of firearm ownership started as a RACIST law.

[basil]

I like to think that we have progressed quite a bit since the days of the shoot out at the OK Corral in Old Tombstone.

I also believe that the Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment, means what it says, (Words have meanings.)

If you don’t like living under our Constitution, there’s another freedom you have—the right to leave the country and find one better to your liking.

You can also hang around and try to change the laws you don’t like. At the present time, it appears that most in the country have voted to keep the 2A in force.

Now, if we could just get rid of all those infringements...........

[aruanan]

many people start carrying guns on a daily basis eventually we will be back to Dodge City 1870.

That's what was said when Florida first made it easy to carry, and it's been said about every state that followed.

It has not happened.

It would be great if that were to happen:

"In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

"In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

"Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics as shown in Table 6, shows the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east and our home town:

DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 496 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 282 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)
San Antonio - 122 Murders (9.3 per 100,000 residents)

Let's head back to the days of the wild, wild west.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

The proof is in the fact that those who actually lived through the daily carrying of fire arms in the 19th century gave it up and passed laws against the carrying of firearms. The daily carrying of firearms simply did not work. That is human experience which is enough for all excepting the fanatic.

Further proof is in the language that some people have used in response to my statement: I can just hear them: "Why you S.O.B. try take my gun will you! " Why DRAW you B*stard! Living proof through living language. Reason does not exist in some people, only emotion, and the latter should not be allowed to carry. Enough!

[stylin19a]

Whatever possesses a person to get all obsessed about "carrying" while living and working in ZIP codes where the incidence of violent crime is minuscule?

gotta have some way to take care of minuscule.

[dirtboy]

That is no proof, moron. We have had increasing concealed carry over the last 20 years. Find a rigorous study that shows it has led to increased violence. Or once again, get stuffed.

[aruanan]

The citation for what I posted about gun deaths per 100,000 is:

Frontier Violence: Another Look by W. Eugene Hollon.

[conservonator]

You’re confusing anecdotal evidence with proof, don’t do that, it makes you look like a typical agenda driven leftist. If less restrictive carry laws lead to more gun violence you should be able to cite them, if not, try and educate your self, knowledge goes a long way to dispelling irrational fear.

[cayuga]

Keep the guns in the house, place of business and maybe the vehicle.

That would have done me no good about 35 years ago, when two predators thought I was easy prey while walking my dog one night. Just the sight of my weapon had them running back to their car.

They were not expecting an armed citizen in New York, where carry permits were not at all common. I doubt they gave up on a life of crime. I'm afraid all I did was teach them to be more careful.

[facedown]

Another child hijacks Mom’s computer while she’s out shopping.

[hosepipe]

[ if the unions were disbanded, the majority would suddenly become republicans. ]

Must be we have the government we deserve..
We have found the enemy.. its “US”..... the government..
The government is actually people.. “the people”..

Could be “the people” are as corrupt as the government is ..
Occams Razor demands the Law of Simplicity.. “what appears to be so usually is”..

[smokingfrog]

The chances of your house burning down due to a grease fire in the kitchen are probably pretty slim too, but it’s still a good idea to keep a fire extiguisher handy.