Posted on 09/01/2011 4:08:38 PM PDT by wagglebee
READ THE VERSE FROM THE MASORETIC TEXT. NOT THE UPDATED, MODERNIZED VERSION. DRIVEL IS WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED. DRIVEL TO THE NTH DEGREE. THESE LAWS WERE WRITTEN LONG BEFORE EITHER YOU OR YOUR RABBI STARTED CITING MODERN MYTH...in place of The Laws of Moses.
Your snarky condescending attitude is not needed.
There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, although there is apparently with yours.
My point was that you never answered wagglebee’s question. And now here you are addressing yet another argument of your own construct.
Do try to focus and answer what is asked of you. Taking it off topic and shifting the attention to others or other topics smacks of dishonest debate techniques and covering your butt because you got pinned down and exposed.
ping to #40
Read #40. I was PINGED to this thread by little jeremiah. I did not come into this thread and start trolling it up. You pinged me to try to get me into another stupid and unproductive debate about something that neither one of us is going to change our mind about. What is the point?
The party platform states otherwise.
Dubya must attend to his own soul. I will attend to mine. Last time I checked, G-d did not start with a d.
I’m just surprised the abortionists don’t refute
the study by saying that abortion stops mental
illness in 100% of aborted fetus’.
Abortion IS murder.
Just how does that justify murder? And now you propose adding to that trauma with the murder of her own child?
Did you ever hear of adoption?
The answer to the emotional trauma or a rape is forgiveness. It's not the baby's fault the rape happened and you way underestimate the ability of a mother to love her child and recognize its innocence in the matter.
The answer for the trauma of rape is justice being done to the rapist, not murdering the innocent baby.
I didn’t all you a troll. I merely stated your position, and what you CLAIM as the position of Orthodox Judaism is wrong. It is SO wrong I cannot believe my eyes.
Do you not SEE that the entire verse was changed to mean something it did not mean?
What are you trying to do? Are you trying to get me to lose my temper and cuss you out so I will get banned. It's not going to happen. The moderators know who I am. They know I'm conservative, and that I'm not some liberal troll or person who's had an account before.
What are you trying to accomplish? Do you think that calling me out in threads like this is going to win me over to your side and lead me to oppose the rape exception? Hardly. All it does is make me more steadfast in my support for it. WHAT is the point of repeatedly distorting my positions and calling me a pro-abort when I have a slightly more conservative position on abortion than our most recent pro-life president? Is that what your god is telling you to do?
If you have answer to these, you can freepmail me (or don't). I won't respond in this thread again, and I won't respond in others like it.
This is not my original opinion, but the opinion of pretty much EVERY Orthodox Jewish authority out there. Don’t you think they’ve read the Chumash (or the Pentateuch, if you prefer that word? I was citing an Orthodox rabbi. Trust me, he’s intimately familiar with it.
I don’t know of any rabbi of ANY Jewish denomination who disagrees with the proposition that not only is abortion always acceptable to save the life of the mother, but it is in fact REQUIRED that this be allowed.
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Groupthink can fail. I asked for a Tanakh based reason for this thinking, since the Tanakh is filled with, “thus saith t he Lord” and the Talmud is packed with the opinions of mid-eval Rabbis.
In post 24 you said: Exodus 21:22 states the following:
“If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.” In biblical times, killing an unborn child (basically an involuntary abortion) required that you pay damages. If you killed the mother, however, you were guilty of MURDER. This is why Judaism favors the life of the mother over the life of the unborn child when their competing interests meet. The mother’s right to LIFE must always take priority over the life of the unborn child.
This is talking about men fighting, and *accidentally* hurting a woman with child, and the child dying. This is better known as “involuntary manslaughter”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter. Exodus 21:22 could not be a justification for allowing abortion, since it is clearly discussing “involuntary manslaughter”, and not murder, which is abortion.
You changed direction in order to deflect. You made a statement that was untrue. I proved it. With a link.
Oh and I asked Mesta to come. I knew she would know the truth. I was right.
Oh yeah and, I didn't ping you. I don't even really want to speak to you. I don't like you.
I am not included in whatever you are yammering about. I am ONLY here because you claimed falsely that abortion is acceptablein Judaic Law and IT IS NOT. Not ever. That was the only subject of my posts. You are using a mighty broad brush here. And then you lump me in with everyone else after you call my response drivel without answering the points of fact or the ONE question I asked you.
Do me a favor. If you are going to dis all of Judaism, do it in private. That way you will be guaranteed a free ride to posit whatever you like, true or not, and no one will question it.
They changed the verse when they *modernized*, dear brother. Completely.
Our youth pastor was doing a fill in for our main Sunday service last month and reveiled to the congregation that she was the child of a forced rape on her mother.
She is a very powerful testimony.
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I’m sure that every child who was the product of a rape would prefer to be alive than have been murdered. The idea that a child should be murdered because of rape is abhorrent and barbaric.
“The moderators know who I am.”
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They do indeed know who you are. And that puzzles me. I’ve already gone on record stating that you and the mods reached an agreement to get you un-zotted last week. You cleaned up the lies on your FReep page - they let you back. You denied it. They admitted it by their silence.
But there’s more to you being the worst agitating liberal newbie troll never to be zotted for good than I can get my mind around.
While I’m sure you and your liberal buddies take great pride in my concerns, I wonder if management knows the damage you are doing to the unity of this site.
Jim Rob likes to go off on Rudy Tooters and Mitt-bots and so the zots go flying. Whatever. What I and the FRepers you are engaging on a daily basis fear is the infiltration of Free Republic by Social Libertarians like yourself. And management stays silent and allows this.
Speaking for myself, I want no part of a Free Republic gone all liberal.
To think that FR is foolishly allowing a liberal newbie troll like you to draw a line in the sand is sad.
Speaking for myself, I want no part of a Free Republic gone all liberal.
To think that FR is foolishly allowing a liberal newbie troll like you to draw a line in the sand is sad.
This is often a topic of discussion, believe me.
Thanks.
Will see if I can get away with giving it to my students as a handout.
Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
What I and the FRepers you are engaging on a daily basis fear is the infiltration of Free Republic by Social Libertarians like yourself.
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10thAmendmentGuy : It’s not that we fear the infiltration of FR for lack of wisdom, or knowledge to debate you. It’s that we have better things to do than to patrol FR for the sake of finding and smashing those who engage in handwaving ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwaving
... and don’t eat crow and/or apologize when they are cornered.
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