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Rick Perry backer Robert Jeffress: Mitt Romney not a Christian
Politico ^ | 10/07/11 | Alexander Burns

Posted on 10/07/2011 5:17:45 PM PDT by freespirited

Texas evangelical leader Robert Jeffress, the Baptist megachurch pastor who introduced Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit, said Friday afternoon he does not believe Mitt Romney is a Christian.

Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a “cult,” and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. Continue Reading

“That is a mainstream view, that Mormonism is a cult,” Jeffress told reporters here. “Every true, born again follower of Christ ought to embrace a Christian over a non-Christian.”

Asked by POLITICO if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: “No.”

Jeffress's comments represent the first major attack of the 2012 cycle on Romney over his membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, an issue that some Romney supporters believe cost the former Massachusetts governor in his last presidential run.

The attack on Romney wasn’t just faith-based. Jeffress called the Republican presidential candidate a “conservative out of convenience” who “does not have a consistent track record on the subject of marriage, on the sanctity of life.”

“I just do not believe that we as conservative Christians can expect him to stand strong for the issues that are important to us,” he said.

Jeffress said that he had not spoken with Perry about his views on Romney's faith and was “in no way speaking for him.” In an email, Perry campaign spokesman Robert Black said that the campaign didn’t choose Jeffress to introduce Perry and does not share his view of Mormonism.

The Romney campaign did not respond to a request for comment, nor did the campaign of former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, the other Mormon candidate in the Republican presidential race.

Looking ahead to the general election, Jeffress warned that in a race between Romney and Obama, he believes many evangelicals will stay home and leave the GOP nominee without their votes.

“I do not think evangelical voters are going to be motivated to go out and vote for Mitt Romney,” he said. The conservative Christian leader said that he himself would vote for Romney and does not doubt that he is a good man.

“I think he’s a fine family person,” Jeffress explained. “It is only faith in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone that qualifies you as a Christian.”

Jeffress said he does not believe that Mormonism is a disqualifier for the presidency, pointing out that constitutionally, the “government can impose no religious test.”

“Private citizens can impose all kinds of religious tests,” he added.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; cain; freetrade; globalism; heartless; lds; mittromney; perry; robertjeffress
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To: ilovesarah2012

No...

...Just deceived.


101 posted on 10/07/2011 7:51:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; Persevero

Who do you think those Mormons who would have voted for other candidate otherwise? I probably was not clear. I was referring to the general elections. I would think that the Reid-type Mormons will vote for the Dim candidate anyway. Although you may be right. In the primaries, Mormons voting for Romney because of his religion may make a difference.


102 posted on 10/07/2011 8:37:05 PM PDT by paudio (0bama is like a bad mechanic who couldn't fix your car; he just makes it worse. Get somebody else!)
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To: org.whodat

Mormon’s weren’t really GOP until about the 1950’s. When I was LDS a lot of the older members were still staunch democrats. But, things change.

Anyway, Utah isn’t in play it will go for Romney.


103 posted on 10/07/2011 8:56:38 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Count of Monte Logan
the knowledge of God, his son and the Holy Ghost was already lost to the World.

By the way, how do you justify the Mormon conception of the Godhead?

The LDS church currently teaches that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate gods. In LDS theology, God the Father is called "Elohim" and Jesus Christ is called "Jehovah." This Mormon doctrine raises an interesting theological difficulty. In Hebrew the Ten Commandments read:

‎2 ‏אָֽנֹכִ֖י֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑֔יךָ אֲשֶׁ֧ר הוֹצֵאתִ֛יךָ מֵאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרַ֖יִם מִבֵּ֣֥ית עֲבָדִֽ֑ים׃

‎3 ‏לֹֽ֣א יִהְיֶֽה־לְךָ֛֩1 אֱלֹהִ֥֨ים

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

In the KJV of the Bible the word "LORD" (in all capital letters) stands for the holy name "Jehovah" which I will abbreviate as "J" from now on to prevent too much repetition of this most Sacred Name. Thus what the Ten Commands are really saying is: I am J thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the House of Bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. In other words J has just forbidden anyone to worship any other deity than Himself. If Mormonism teaches that J is really Jesus, and that Jesus is a separate God than the Father, then why do Mormons worship the Father? Wouldn't this constitute a violation of the Ten Commandments since Mormons would be worshipping Elohim rather than J?

Furthermore Mormonism teaches that God the Father is named Elohim, but in Isaiah 45 J says that there is no Elohim besides Himself:

‎5 ‏אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ וְאֵ֣ין ע֔וֹד זוּלָתִ֖י אֵ֣ין אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֲאַזֶּרְךָ֖ וְלֹ֥א יְדַעְתָּֽנִי׃

5 I am the LORD,and there is none else, there is no God [Elohim] beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

I am sure that you see what I am getting at here. If Mormons teach that the Father is Elohim and Jesus is J, then why does Isaiah say that there is no Elohim besides J? The implication is that J is the only Elohim, and therefore that J and the Father are the one and only God. Thus the Father and the Son would be the same being which creates a theological problem for the LDS since the LDS teach that these two are not one being. This passage does, however, make sense to one who believes in the Trinity.

I am sorry if this is coming across as an attempt to bash your belief in God. That is not my intention, I am only pointing out questions concerning the above mentioned theological difficulties in Mormonism that appear to undermine or contradict its own doctrine. These doctrinal problems and the Mormon conception that there are many gods just don't seem to mesh with what the Bible is saying.

104 posted on 10/07/2011 9:02:52 PM PDT by old republic
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To: Ripliancum; freespirited

We already covered that when you posted it earlier.

Pat says it’s ok to divorce your wife if she has alzhiemer’s. It shows Pat has lost his mind. This is just further proof that he needs to get out of ministry.

And I still don’t get why Mormons want to be considered Christians since so many of the leaders have stated such hateful things about Christianity.

Want sources, Rip?


105 posted on 10/07/2011 9:04:09 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Kakaze

To me the mormon part doesn’t matter, I simply don’t trust Romney.

- - - -
For me the Mormon part is a good reason WHY I don’t trust Romney. Been there done that (see tagline) and I know the reasons why he flip flops and lies to get what he wants and it gets back to Mormonism.


106 posted on 10/07/2011 9:08:34 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Kakaze

Given a choice between a mormon and a muslim....I take the mormon every time!

- - - - - - -
There are reasons why the LDS would rather work with Muslim charities than Christian ones and why Muslims are so at home at BYU (I can source both of those btw)....

“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ” - LDS founder Joseph Smith

BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE....

“The Greek and Roman Churches, which have been called Christian, and which take the name of Christians as a cloak, have worshipped innumerable idols. On this account, on the simple subject of the Deity and His worship, if nothing more, I should rather incline, of the two, after all my early traditions, education, and prejudices, to the side of Mahomet, for on this point he is on the side of truth, and the Christian world on the side of idolatry and heathenism.”
- Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.38

“..instead of saying that Mahometanism prevailed against Christianity, and that Christianity was in danger of being done away by its prevalence, we would rather say, that where Mahometanism prevailed, it taught and established one truth at least, viz., the true and living God, and so far as this went, it did preserve people from worshipping idols. And had the crescent waved on the tower of London, or on the church of St. Paul, instead of the cross, and had the Mahometan religion been enforced instead of the Roman religion that was enforced for a series of generations, and had tradition riveted what the sword enforced, then that nation and the surrounding nations would have been worshippers of one true God instead of idols; they would have recognized it in theory at least, whether they would have worshipped Him in spirit and in truth or not. But now [Christians] do not recognize Him in theory, for they acknowledge as their god an imaginary being without body, parts, or passions.”
- Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.39

“Now, if we take Mahometanism during those dark ages, and the corruptions that are so universally prevalent over the earth, and the idolatrous systems of religion, falsely called Christianity, and weigh them in a balance; with all my education in favor of Christian nations and Christian powers, and Christian institutions, so called, with all my prejudices of early youth, and habits of thought and reading, my rational faculties would compel me to admit that the Mahometan history and Mahometan doctrine was a standard raised against the most corrupt and abominable idolatry that over perverted our earth, found in the creeds and worship of Christians, falsely so named.”
- Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.40

“Though Mahometan institutions are corrupt enough, and need reforming by the Gospel, I am inclined to think, upon the whole, leaving out the corruptions of men in high places among them, that they have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations; and in many localities there have been high standards of morals. So far as that one point is concerned, of worshipping the one true God under the name of Mahometanism, together with many moral precepts, and in war only acting on the defensive, I think they have exceeded in righteousness and truthfulness of religion, the idolatrous and corrupt church that has borne the name of Christianity.”

- Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.41


107 posted on 10/07/2011 9:21:02 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: T Minus Four

Hi T. :)


108 posted on 10/07/2011 9:22:43 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

Thanks for posting this. I did not know that.


109 posted on 10/07/2011 9:26:47 PM PDT by CajunConservative ( Leadership. It is defined by action, not position.)
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To: paudio

“Like it or not, there will be some conservatives who will not vote for Romney because he’s a Mormon, not because of his positions on policy issues.”

Like it or not, there may indeed be many of them.

I don’t think Mr. Romney is going to do very well with Christian evangelicals, for example.

Just speculatin’...


110 posted on 10/07/2011 9:26:59 PM PDT by Grumplestiltskin (I may look new, but it's only deja vu!)
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To: ilovesarah2012; T Minus Four; greyfoxx39; SZonian; MHGinTN; Colofornian

Don’t know much about mormons other than I won’t vote for Romney.

- - - -
Well T minus and I DO know a lot about Mormons. I was one for several years. What you don’t know can harm you when it comes to them.


111 posted on 10/07/2011 9:31:52 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Soul Seeker

I can get along with Mormons and think they are nice people but I am not about to bow to a pressure to label their religion the same as my own when it is not.

- - - —
I am often accused of being a Mormon hater because I speak out against Mormonism and I have a duty to do so (see tagline), but I do it because I love Mormons and know there is something better, the Real Jesus of the Bible.

I still have a lot of friends who are LDS, and I love them. They know where I stand and that I was LDS. They know I don’t accept them as Christians and I know they consider me a ‘son of perdition’. We get through it.


112 posted on 10/07/2011 9:50:07 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Coldwater Creek

Romney IS Obama - just ‘white and delightsome’ (to use a Mormon phrase).


113 posted on 10/07/2011 9:55:05 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: rickomatic

That being said. If Mittens is the nominee, I will hold my nose and vote for him against the current abomination in the White House.

- - - -
And, as a Christian, I will not. I cannot. Romney is Obama - just paler.

We need to make sure Romney doesn’t get the nomination and what scares me is how many are throwing up their hands and resigning themselves to vote for Romney.


114 posted on 10/07/2011 9:59:29 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Count of Monte Logan; Paperdoll; Colofornian; Godzilla; MHGinTN; T Minus Four; greyfoxx39

I wish I could find one intelligent anti-Mormon activist. All the ones I see are like you and they don’t do justice to your cause.. whatever it is.

- - - - - -

I wish I could find one intelligent Mormon apologist. All the ones I see are like you and they don’t do justice to your cause.. whatever it is.


115 posted on 10/07/2011 10:02:06 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Elsie; ejonesie22

ping


116 posted on 10/07/2011 10:02:38 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Count of Monte Logan; old republic

ROFLMAO.. You really need to do your research and quit giving the LDS pat answers.

Just once I would like to come across an intelligent Mormon who could defend their faith...oh wait, if they do that much research, they end up leaving like me!


117 posted on 10/07/2011 10:07:05 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

Yeah, when you are down to bravado and such, well you are out of everything else...


118 posted on 10/07/2011 10:18:06 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Count of Monte Logan; jimmyray

But your views on the nature of God are based on old sectarian notions, interpreting Biblical scriptures in a way to fit your own beliefes, not revelation from God to clarify such issues directly.

0 - - - - -
That is RICH coming from a Mormon. And their 100+ sectarian breakoffs. And it shows you know NOTHING of real Church history.

Christians agree on the basics, person work nature of Christ, salvation by Grace, reliability of the Bible for teaching and doctrine.

Mormons disagree with Christians on all of those things. No Christian church accepts Mormon baptism or considers them to be Christians.

And if we are all ‘apostates’ why are you guys so desparately trying to convince everyone you are one of us?


119 posted on 10/07/2011 10:42:52 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Don’t trust Mormons to tell you the truth. They spin and redefine Christian words so what they SAY and what they mean are often 2 different things. I’ve been there, done that (see tagline)

Check out this post and the ones following it. One of the posts I parse a typical Mormon/Christian conversation.

If you have any questions feel free to ask me either in thread or via freepmail.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2786065/posts?page=72#72


120 posted on 10/07/2011 10:48:21 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: hinckley buzzard

I guess this means “evangelicals” would prefer to have a moslem over a Mormon. Brilliant, they are.
-
- - - - -
Not that much difference...

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ - Joseph Smith


121 posted on 10/07/2011 10:50:02 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ilovesarah2012; F15Eagle

F15’s summary of the return of Christ to Missouri is accurate.


122 posted on 10/07/2011 10:59:03 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: F15Eagle; ilovesarah2012

It is still taught today. There is currently a compound going up near there by some wealthy LDS businessmen (and I think one of the Osmonds) in preparation for Christ’s return there.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/116.1?lang=eng#0

http://lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/adam-ondi-ahman.t1?lang=eng&letter=a

I can give you other sources for this as well, from LDS leadership.


123 posted on 10/07/2011 11:08:26 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: F15Eagle; ilovesarah2012; Colofornian

IIRC, Joseph Fielding Smith was Joseph Smith’s great nephew (grandson of Hyrum). None of Joe’s children followed Brigham Young, they were all RLDS.

And I think you are correct that McConkie was married to one of JFS’s daughters.


124 posted on 10/07/2011 11:11:52 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Count of Monte Logan; dfwgator

Wow, talk about pots and kettles. Newsflash for you, I understand my faith quite well, since I had to completely rely on the Bible for my theology when I came to the realization that Mormonism was a fraud. What would you like to know about my Christian faith? Ask away...

Your responses are so typical and so not thought out that it really isn’t funny.

It isn’t uncharitable in the least to fight the heresies of Mormonism. I will give you credit though at least you admit to teachings and doctrines that your co-religionists cover up on here.


125 posted on 10/07/2011 11:18:41 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

I was thinking grandson too as I typeed it but had’t thought of Hyrum. Been awhile since I read the short bio on him. McConkie was for sure all bought in. Adam-ondi-ahman ought to be enough to cause any Mormon with a KJV Bible to realize it is a fairy tale. After all Joseph Smith took several men out there to show them the so-called altar. Pure fairy tale.


126 posted on 10/07/2011 11:39:18 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: ejonesie22; Count of Monte Logan

There are 20,000 polytheistic Christian churches?

I assume you have a valid list...

- - - -
I have a valid list of the over 100+ breakoffs of Mormonism I can post,


127 posted on 10/07/2011 11:43:06 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ilovesarah2012
I have no clue

I respectfully suggest you get one. The measure of a man would seem to include what god he worships.

128 posted on 10/07/2011 11:44:00 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: reaganaut

Hey sis :-)


129 posted on 10/07/2011 11:44:50 PM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: ilovesarah2012

Now you are getting the idea!


130 posted on 10/07/2011 11:45:04 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: achilles2000; greyfoxx39

The Christianity issue aside, Mittens is very likely a nominal Mormon.

- - - - -
I’m sorry but he is not. He is what is called an ‘active’ Mormon, he believes, attends the temple to do work for the dead, attends his meetings, does his ‘home teaching’, has ‘callings’ (church jobs), etc. You only do that if you really believe, been there done that.

BTW, Reid is also an ‘active’ true believing Mormon. He even states that his politics are because of his Mormon faith not in spite of.


131 posted on 10/07/2011 11:52:11 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: old republic

Excellent post!


132 posted on 10/08/2011 12:03:38 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ejonesie22

You are welcome. One thing I learned coming out of Mormonism is that most people have no idea what Mormons really believe or teach. I didn’t before I joined.


133 posted on 10/08/2011 12:07:25 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ejonesie22

Yeah but at least its ‘fresh meat’ and this one is honest.


134 posted on 10/08/2011 12:13:34 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

Just wow


135 posted on 10/08/2011 12:16:03 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle

Adam-ondi-ahman ought to be enough to cause any Mormon with a KJV Bible to realize it is a fairy tale. After all Joseph Smith took several men out there to show them the so-called altar

- - - - -
And they found “Zelph”. ROFL. I always thought those had to be animal bones.


136 posted on 10/08/2011 12:17:19 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: F15Eagle

Looking back after all these years, it is like looking at someone else. I intellectually know I believed all of that (and I did), but it is almost surreal to think that I really believed all of that, that I could be so blind and stupid. My only excuse is I was a teenager. When I became an adult I put away ‘childish things’ including my faith in Mormonism.

Does that makes sense?


137 posted on 10/08/2011 12:24:07 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

When one is surrounded by it a group think mentality engenders. Because it seems normal. Even as I sat dow at the last meal at that summer camp a guy across from me remarked how amazing it was that Smith was able to find water underground. I calmly replied it wasn’t that hard to hit a water table. But we know that Smith used crooked dice. And these were ordinary people who had been taught most of their lives that Smith was a prophet. I had hoped I might get to speak about prophecy in the Bible and get them more solidly rooted in Scripture but that opportunity did not present itself unfortunately. And I should clearly state I am a student of Bible prophecy and I leave it at that.


138 posted on 10/08/2011 12:50:42 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: reaganaut
Want sources, Rip?

He's got 'em...

#91

139 posted on 10/08/2011 5:14:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut

I predict they will be IGNORED; just as EVERY statement (damning) from Mt. SLC gets ignored.


140 posted on 10/08/2011 5:15:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: CajunConservative
I did not know that.

Don't feel badly; millions of MORMONs don't know it either!


In case you don't recognize the title of this post, it is part of President Hinckley's answer to a reporter's question that appeared in the August 4 1997 issue of Time magazine. The reporter referenced the King Follett discourse. The answer supplied and the manner in which it was delivered caused the reporter to draw some false conclusions about a very important doctrine.

In that discourse, the prophet Joseph Smith said, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man." (See also D&C 130:22)

The article referred to Lorenzo Snow's couplet, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." The reporter said, "God the Father was once a man as we are. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing." President Hinckley was then asked, "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"

The bothersome reply

"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

The reporter wrote, "On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain." That's an unfortunate conclusion. Of course I wasn't at the interview and neither were you but I'll bet the reporter mistook careful thoughtfulness for uncertainty. This doctrine is indeed deep territory and not something that is taught outside the LDS Church.



An earlier and similar interview

The San Francisco Chronicle, published an interview with President Hinckley in April of 1997. The reporter asked, "There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormon's believe that God was once a man?" President Hinckley responded, "I wouldn't say that. There is a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'"

He then said, "Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." The reporter pounced on this. "So you're saying that the church is still struggling to understand this? " President Hinckley responded, "Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly."

President Hinckley's response

President Hinckley said in October 1997 General Conference: "I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that's to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.

"I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." And there lies the whole point of my post today. Some members did indeed become a little concerned by the exchanges they read in the press reports of those interviews.

Does the Church still teach this?

I know this is old news but it still bothers some people when they discover the anti-Mormon attacks floating around on the Internet. President Hinckley was right. We really don't know much about how our Heavenly Father became a God. The idea that he passed through a mortal probationary state like you and me is certainly not documented in any scripture of which I know.

However, it is still taught. In the Gospel Principles manual in the chapter on exaltation we read, "Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

Summary and conclusion

I don't know why this should bother anyone. The doctrine is true. Joseph Smith knew a whole lot more about this than I do. President Hinckley also knew a whole lot more about this doctrine than he was willing to share with reporters who did not have the background to understand it. It must have been difficult for President Hinckley to hold back and not teach it in those interviews.

It didn't bother me when I read the interviews back in 1997 and it doesn't bother me today. However, I know it does bother some people. We each have trials of our faith. I have never depended on an intellectual understanding of the gospel in order to accept it and live it. There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.



 There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith. 

141 posted on 10/08/2011 5:17:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: CajunConservative

Hey MORMONs!!!

Your OWN Robertson is now dead (Hinckley) so you may now safely comment on things he did in HIS doddering years of leading LDS in SLC!


142 posted on 10/08/2011 5:19:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: CajunConservative
... so you may now safely comment on things he did ...

Or... maybe not:

 



 
"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the 'prophets, seers, and revelators' of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostacy..."
(Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)
 
 
 
Reinforced here......
 

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON) CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."
 

 
Don't criticize?

 
 
 
 
And here:
 

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
 
 
 
 


Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said    WHATEVER    but that's NOT the same as criticizing!


 
( Remember fellow Christians:  the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow! )



143 posted on 10/08/2011 5:22:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
...just ‘MORE white and delightsome’
144 posted on 10/08/2011 5:23:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
Just once I would like to come across an intelligent Mormon who could defend their faith...

I sure miss PD.

At least HE could direct someone to ALL of the places that had the answers to ALL of our questions!

145 posted on 10/08/2011 5:25:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut

(If they truly wanted to know; that is...)


146 posted on 10/08/2011 5:26:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
But your views on the nature of God are based on old sectarian notions, interpreting Biblical scriptures in a way to fit your own beliefes, not revelation from God to clarify such issues directly.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

147 posted on 10/08/2011 5:28:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
They spin and redefine Christian words...

A sampler:

Here is an alphabetical list of some of the more important terms and their meanings to a Mormon:

AARONIC PRIESTHOOD: This is called the lesser priesthood, and is usually held by young men starting at the age of 12 to the age of about 18. It is also held for a short time by men who have just become members.

AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.

APOSTLES: The Mormon Church claims to have the same organization as the primitive church that Jesus set up. They also have twelve apostles and sometimes use this as a proof of their divine appointment as the one true church. But they actually have fifteen or more most of the time. The general practice has been for a new president, who is also an apostle, to appoint counselors from the Quorum of the Twelve; then the openings left by the president and his counselors are filled, resulting in a total of fifteen.

ELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.

ELOHIM: The name of God the Father.

EXALTATION: This is becoming a God in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.

ETERNAL PROGRESSION: The teaching that each of us has the potential to become a God just like God the Father did. He was once a man capable of physical death, was resurrected and progressed to become a God. We can take a similar path and get all the power, glory, dominion, and knowledge the Father and Jesus Christ has. We then will be able to procreate spirit children who will worship us as we do God the Father.

GOD: Usually means God the Father. He was once a man like us capable of physical death and he progressed until he became a God. He has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. Within Mormonism, Gods, angels, people and devils all have the same nature or substance but are at different stages along the line of progression to Godhood.

GRACE - The Mormon concept of grace means making oneself worthy of the grace of God by doing good works in the church, temple, and community.

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

HOLY GHOST: The third member of the Godhead, a personage of spirit, unlike the Father and Son who have bodies of flesh and bones.

JEHOVAH: The pre-incarnate name for Jesus Christ.

JESUS CHRIST: The spirit of Jesus Christ was the first spirit born to God the Father and his wife (Heavenly Mother). He progressed to become a God under the Father. (The Father is also the literal father of Jesus' body in the exact same way we were begotten by our earthly parents.) He now has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. He is the spirit brother of Satan whose spirit was procreated in the same way as Jesus'. To Mormons, even the atonement of his shed blood is not enough to provide forgiveness of sin and bring eternal life. Stripped of his Deity and demoted to a partial Savior, the Jesus of Mormonism has been robbed of his power and authority. Not only is the Mormon Jesus one who had struggled to achieve his own salvation, he also failed to establish his church. Both in Jerusalem and in the America's where Jesus was supposed to have visited, he attempted to build a group of followers. But in each case, truth was overcome by the alleged early church apostasy into false teaching.

MARRIAGE: The Mormon Church teaches two types of marriage. One ends at death. The other is for "time and eternity." If the couple is married in a Mormon temple by someone with authority it is believed they will stay married in the next life. This kind of marriage is needed if they are to progress, not only as husband and wife, but as God and Goddess.

MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTHOOD: The higher of two categories of ministry in the LDS Church, assigned primarily to seasoned members over the age of 18, males only.

POLYGAMY: The practice of men having more than one wife was started by Joseph Smith in the early/mid 1830's and ostensibly ended in 1890. It is not now sanctioned by the LDS church headquartered in Salt Lake City. Members found practicing it are excommunicated. While the practice was ended, the revelation teaching it is still in Mormon scripture (Doctrine & Covenants 132). Some Mormon splinter groups believe the teaching was for eternity and still practice it. These modern-day polygamists (called fundamentalists) number in the 30,000-50,000 range.

PRE-EXISTENCE: The Mormon teaching that our spirits (Mormons and non-Mormons) were procreated in a premortal life by God the Father and our Mother in Heaven, that our spirits were born and raised to maturity before coming to earth to obtain physical bodies, and that the spirit of Jesus Christ was the first one born to our Heavenly parents.

PRIESTHOOD: A category of ministry in the LDS Church open to all worthy males 12 years of age or older, empowering them to act in God's name. Non-Mormons cannot hold the priesthood, hence they have no authority. Men of African descent have only recently (by special correction of the original revelations) been allowed to hold these offices.

PROPHET: The top leader of the Mormon Church is considered not only a prophet but is also a seer and revelator. He has the title "president." He is the only one who can speak for the whole church and receive new revelation for the whole church. When the current prophet dies, the most senior (time as an apostle, not age) of the twelve apostles, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, becomes the new president. He can appoint counselors, who receive their authority from him.

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

SATAN: One of the spirit children of God. As a consequence of their rebellion Satan and his angels cannot have mortal bodies - hence cannot progress.

SCRIPTURES: The Mormon Church has four documents it calls canonized scriptures: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the King James Version of the Holy Bible.

SON OF GOD: Along with Jesus Christ, all of us are viewed as the children of God, his literal spirit children. This makes us all - Mormons, non-Mormons, Jesus Christ and Satan - spirit brothers.

SPIRITS: Nonmaterial beings allegedly procreated in the pre-existence by God the Father and his wife. Jesus Christ, and even we ourselves, were supposedly born and raised to maturity as spirits before coming into bodies on this earth. The spirit of Satan was also procreated in this way. This makes Satan and Jesus Christ spirit brothers. Jesus selected a righteous path; Satan selected the opposite.

STANDARD WORKS: The four canonized scriptures (see Scripture above) used by the Mormon Church are called the Standard Works.

TEMPLE: One of about four dozen special (for LDS) buildings around the world in which sacred (to LDS) ceremonies are performed for the living and the dead; off limits to nonmembers and even to Mormons who lack a "temple recommend" from their leaders. Only about 20% of the Mormons qualify to go.

TRINITY: This word is used by Christians to summarize the Biblical teaching that within the one true God is three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. They share the same nature or substance so that there are not three Gods, but three persons in the one God. Mormons say they also believe in the Trinitarian concept of God. But really what they mean are that God the Father is a God, God the Son is another God, and God the Holy Ghost is a third God and they are "one God" because they are "one in purpose." Mormons often have an incorrect understanding of what Christians mean by the "Trinity." They say Christians believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one person (i.e., Monophysiteism) or that God shows himself as the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost (i.e. Modalism).

VIRGIN BIRTH: A concept negated by the view that God, a resurrected man with flesh and bones according to Mormon teachings, literally fathered Jesus in the flesh in the same way in which earthly men father their children. Despite the documented position of previous Mormon prophets, presidents, and apostles about the nature of Christ's conception, modern LDS apologists maintain that "Christ was born of a virgin". How can they? By changing the definition of the word "virgin". The reasoning goes like this: since Mary had sexual relations with an immortal man, not a mortal man, the phrase "virgin birth" still applies.

WORD OF WISDOM: The name for the Mormon Church's teaching requiring abstinence from tobacco, alcohol, and hot drinks (tea and coffee).



148 posted on 10/08/2011 5:30:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
The Christianity issue aside, Mittens is very likely a nominal Mormon. /i>


 FREE KITTENS

A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.

Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.

"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.

"Kittens," little Suzy said.

"How old are they?" asked Monson.

Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."

"And what kind of kittens are they?"

"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.

Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.

 

 

So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine  and KSL.

Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.

"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."

"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."

Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."

Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"



149 posted on 10/08/2011 5:32:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
WHAT!?

Mittens; eh?

Well...

It sure SOUNDED like kittens!

150 posted on 10/08/2011 5:34:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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