Rome, Sweet Rome: Could a Single Marine Unit Destroy the Roman Empire?

Popular Mechanics ^ | October 31, 2011 | Alyson Sheppard

[BenKenobi]

The endless harems...

[dcwusmc]

Curiosity bump...

[BenKenobi]

That would make for an amusing ending.

The American Marines storm Rome, kill the emperor declare themselves to be the new leaders

And then die of smallpox infections.

Sounds like an outer limits episode.

[JimRed]

Unsupplied, no. With supply lines, yes.

[Boogieman]

If the vehicles run on diesel, you could probably rig them to run on biodiesel. Failing that, you can make ethanol or methanol. I have no idea how long a modern military vehicle could run on that kind of stuff though. They’d probably be better off with old Russian vehicles if they had to try that.

[Hetty_Fauxvert]

Bookmark! Great comments on this thread. :)

[Cronos]

Not a chance. They would run out of ammo, fuel etc. before they could get that far. In terms of firepower, yes, they could mow down a thousand Roman soldiers, but there would be more, as the article points out.

Also, the Romans were highly disciplined warriors and a small band of powerful warriors didn't destabilize the Empire in 200 BC (Hannibal) when he had a close political alternative, there is no way a modern unit could do the same -- they would be aliens for everyone with no base.

[ADemocratNoMore]

Slightly off-topic but I'm a fan of counterfactuals - have been since the ancient days of Usenet and soc.history.what-if. I'm hoping this thread stays around & mutates or else becomes an alternate history ping list. Nothing better than adding the Freeper point of view to historical mash-ups.

Back on topic - a single Marine armed with an unloaded rifle with a fixed bayonet or perhaps just a K-Bar versus a Centurion in full battle gear?

[Cheburashka]

Could a Single Marine Unit Destroy the Roman Empire?

---

Why single? Wouldn't a married Marine be capable of the same amount of carnage?

[ADemocratNoMore]

Found the story here...

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0Bx_wEpbf68sZNjY1OWI2ZTItNjAxMS00MTEwLWI5ZTgtYjk2MzdmNTU5NzJh&hl=en_US

Will read it tomorrow.

Also a lot of discussion here...

http://www.reddit.com/r/RomeSweetRome/

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks GeronL. Seven hills, 28 legions? Or, One Hill. One Marine? With enough ammo, food, and transportation, a single Marine could have done it. :') Armored formations would mean nothing against automatic weapons. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[Recon Dad]

So all of these weapons and vehicles could make a brief, dramatic, and even devastating appearance, but would very quickly become useless.

The Romans wouldn’t stand a chance if the Marines had “Hollywood Guns”!
(they never run out of ammo)

[texas booster]

BTTT

[tentmaker]

"1632" by Eric Flint

In April of the year 2000, a six-mile sphere centered on Grantville, West Virginia was displaced in space and time to Germany and May, 1631. The inhabitants of Grantville decided to start the American revolution early; the nobility of Europe were not amused.

http://1632.org/

This story deals with the same issues of how to leverage a modern advantage while adjusting to the limitations of older technologies and dwindling resources.

1632 Series (wikipedia)

[Abathar]

"So all of these weapons and vehicles could make a brief, dramatic, and even devastating appearance, but would very quickly become useless."

The thing is, the Romans would have no idea of how they worked, or their limitations. One huge demonstration outside the walls of Rome, destroying some abandoned structures with artillery, slaughtering thousands of sheep, cattle and pigs from the air, and you could bluff them into damn near anything.

I don't think a single human would need to be killed to effect major changes in their society.

Then there is always the God route, openly accept that you were chosen by a single great entity to rise Rome to rule the world but they would have to change their ways first. Admit you're just humans like them, but you were chosen and hand picked because God was upset his son was killed and he was going to give humans one last chance to straiten up or he would destroy the world and start over.

You could install western values in a couple of generations and with the technological advances, hell just accurate maps, you could bring the whole world into a age of enlightenment.

Basically, you become the UN but rule it with an iron fist.

[Tallguy]

The Spaniards that defeated Montezuma existed at a transitional period of warfare. Muscle powered weapons were slowly giving way to fire-fighting. The Spaniards could continue to fight even when their powder & shot were expended as fire-fighting was a “fair-weather” activity in those days.

Then you have the fact that the Aztecs never saw warhorses or war dogs. Both would have been as terrifying as an Abrams or an LAV, and neither of the latter can live of the land.

Finally we know that the Spainiards made use of native allies. This was the key to their victory. The Marine MEU would have to do the same. I think that would be most difficult as that is a SpecOps function and the Italian city-states mostly remained loyal to Rome during Hannibal’s depredations.

[Recon Dad]

Yeah, Rome sees this demo and gives up the Empire...The Romans were not barbarians living in huts. They would look to the size of the force test it, when they found how strong it was they'd wait them out and let them expend their resources.

A MEU has enough supplies to sustain itself for a week. In a situation like this they could stretch it out to a month or two on the outside a year. Fuel and ammo are finite.

If I were the MEU CO I'd get on the ships and sail back to America go to Titusville, Pa and drill for oil. With oil all things are possible. Within a few years you're self-sustaining and then go back to Rome.....

[Tallguy]

The colonel commanding the MEU would have to combine cunning with a level of ruthlessness not seen in Western warfare since the SS were defeated. He would also have to be able to manipulate Roman religion, supersticions, etc. You are after all an alien society that has a greater understanding of your target than they have of you. That is your chief advantage.

[Abathar]

"they'd wait them out and let them expend their resources."

Not if they think God was going to resupply them. Working on their religions and superstitions is how this battle will get won. If they think God was sending these men then they would follow with God will see them taken care of, the CO would play on that completely. I still think a merger without violence would be possible, allow the emperor and senate to remain in power, just with some changes.

[Pollster1]

Big question: has even one member of the MEU studied Latin or Greek? If so, it could be like our special forces in Afghanistan before the Taliban fell - the Marines could augment one side of the squabbles and their picked winner would be irresistible.

Second question: Bio diesel? If even one member knew how to make it off the top of his head, which is very easy, that would make an even bigger difference. Their armor would eventually break down and run out of ammunition, but they could go quite a few miles first. Planning for those limits would allow them to accomplish quite a bit if they had the extra range from unlimited diesel.

When they collide, my money is on the Marines.

Finally: could they make black powder on their own? It's not the same as their initial loadout, but I'd guess they would have dozens of Marines who are handloaders. Rome would have issues dealing with that, unless a Marine decided to sell that knowledge to the other side (unlikely with the USMC).

Night vision and a modern knife alone would be formidable and would last for a very long time if they conserved their batteries.