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Penn State's Joe Paterno gets what he deserves
SF Chronicle ^ | Nov. 10, 2011 | Scott Ostler

Posted on 11/10/2011 1:31:44 PM PST by Colofornian

Edited on 11/10/2011 1:42:30 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Folks, this is Joe Paterno's legacy.

E-mails jump into my inbox defending Paterno...

I won't remember what Paterno did, but what he didn't do. What he didn't do is what got him fired...

Firing Joe Paterno doesn't fix everything, but it's a great start.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: abuse; fired; grahamspanier; jerrysandusky; joepaterno; paterno; pennstate; pennsylvania
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To: RitaOK; PieterCasparzen; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
I hate the lasting smell of “guilt by association”, and always have...no one there, or here, knows for sure that Paterno knew squat about every jot and tittle of campus gossip on Sandusky. I can back off defending Paterno when I hear the evidence that he actually knew more than he turned in, or covered up for the creep, but there is absolutely none yet. [RitaOK, #38]

Well, as mentioned in posts #77 & 87, the Grand Jury Presentment already includes JoePa's testimony...which IS evidence he knew "enough."

Therefore, it's not even a matter of "guilt by association"; it's dereliction of duty guilt by omission to do the responsible and ethical thing.

Rita, you put the focus on what Paterno knew or didn't know...when he “turned in” the info that Sunday convo (first Sunday of March 2002) he had at home with his superiors.

I find it rather odd that so many people want to reverse telescope it down to what Joe heard one Saturday and what Joe said one Sunday...that Joe somehow “did his duty” once he passed on the info to his superiors that weekend. [Talk about a vomit-inducing "doin' the bare legal minimum required" mentality when kids' lives are @ stake!]

I'm not sure about you but if I was a high school varsity coach...
...and my credible frosh coach came to me one Sat a.m.
...telling me he saw the local sports writer the night before kill someone in the lockerroom showers & then dispose of the evidence, including the body...
...for some reason, I don't think anybody would later be “satisfied” if I told them...
...”Hey, I did my civic duty...I told my superiors about it on Sunday and then forgot about it for the rest of my life.”

Just “fill-in-the-blank” of your own felony parallel on school property if you don't want to think about murder. I'd say child rape is about right up there...especially since Jesus said anyone who offended little ones – it'd be better if a millstone was tied around their neck & then dropped in the sea (Matthew 18).

So your apparent assumptions – and others' assumptions – that Paterno had no ethical responsibility to...
...clarify what McQueary originally told him in ensuing conversations -- IOW to clarify what he witnessed...
...use his considerable influence to ensure the victim or potential other victims be protected.
...are actually pretty sickening and repulsive.

You see, from that point in early March 2002, McQueary advanced under Paterno from grad asst to wide receivers coach and head of recruiting. What? People don't think all the intervening years from that first Saturday in March that Paterno couldn't have "clarified" with McQueary what he saw that night??? [This is part of what I mean by “telescoping” – reducing the ops of communication that Paterno and McQueary had or could have had at either person's initiative]

It's the obvious reality of this consideration alone that makes it so plain that when people deify a personality, they will go to ANY and ALL lengths to deceive, parse, obscure, and justify the unjustifiable inactions of people they place too high on their pedestal!

And the ops for clarifying communication wasn't just from McQueary--->Paterno over the years. It goes the other way, too: Paterno was a “god” figure to so many. If he had said “jump” – people would say “how high?” He could have used his considerable influence to encourage McQueary to go to the authorities once he realized his superiors had stonewalled it.

I find it so interesting that so many relay the Joe Paterno personality cult in State College and say he IS State College (a god, if you will). Yet suddenly...ironically...they portray Joe as this limp-minded guy unable to even faintly pick up a phone and make a phone call...somebody who couldn't even indirectly ensure that the most subtle spark of an investigation was ignited.

Sorry, Penn State perv defenders: You CAN'T have it both ways!

A highly skilled scrambling QB can either run -- or he can't and has to lateral the ball all the time. Here we see so many laud Paterno coaching-wise as comparable to the best-running QB there is ... but lo & behold...he only chose to run the ball once -- and even then pitched it to another...only never to call his own number again.

Shame on you, Joe Paterno. Shame on your cover-up apologists in the public sphere. A god can either use his influence; or he

101 posted on 11/10/2011 4:29:08 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian
Colo, my comments were sarcastic; following is a re-post with /sarc. I thought it was sarcastic enough so that there would be no misunderstanding. The point of my sarcasm is simply this: if a manager gets a report from a subordinate about any kind of foul play and is not 100% sure of the report's veracity or does not understand the report 100%, they still must then obviously pursue the case thoroughly. Only when the manager is 100% sure that the report has no merit would they rightly consider themselves to have completed their own personal handling of it. Simply put, someone in an executive position has continued responsibility to see every case through to complete resolution where the case continues to have an effect on areas within their responsiblity. For Paterno, this area includes all football facilities and his staff as much as is within his professional capacity.

How do we know what the witness told Paterno? According to the grand jury, On Sunday, Paterno told Penn State athletic director Tim Curley that McQueary had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

The author's article is very vague about what the witness told Paterno.


/SARC STARTS HERE...
Right, that's when I'd rub my eyes, say "what ? I don't understand. Some kind of sex ?"

Then I'd be tired and just say whatever and let's go out for a beer on the way home, this has been a long day. Oh, and by the way, don't ever bother me with that thing you were talking about, we're not communicating, let's just forget it and get back to football. I wonder what the wife made for dinner tonight. Hey can you get the lights ?
/SARC ENDS HERE...
102 posted on 11/10/2011 4:31:38 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: NewinTexsas

I’m beginning to think you’re just a pissed off Aggies fan.


103 posted on 11/10/2011 4:32:01 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter

Thursday, November 4, 2004

University Park, Pa. — A pair of former Penn State gridiron standouts, Jerry Sandusky and Charles Sieminski, are set to join very distinguished company with their induction into the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame.

Sandusky and Sieminski are among 14 Pennsylvania sports legends that will be inducted into the hall on Saturday, Nov. 6 at a banquet at the Sheraton Inn North in Pittsburgh.

A three-year Penn State letterman and a member of the Nittany Lions’ coaching staff for 32 years, Sandusky previously was inducted into the Washington-Greene Chapter of the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame in 1999.

Sandusky retired following the 1999 season after 32 years and 381 games on the Penn State staff. In his final game, Penn State posted a 24-0 win over Texas A&M in the 1999 Alamo Bowl, the Lions’ 20th shutout since he became defensive coordinator in 1977.

Founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization which addresses the welfare of children, Sandusky has taken a more active role since his retirement. The Second Mile’s programs touch more than 100,000 at-risk youth annually.

Sandusky is largely responsible for Penn State earning the moniker, “Linebacker U,” with 10 of his linebackers earning first-team All-America honors: Jack Ham (1970), Charlie Zapiec (1971), John Skorupan (1972), Ed O’Neil (1973), Greg Buttle (1975), Kurt Allerman (1976), Shane Conlan (1985-86), Andre Collins (1989), LaVar Arrington (1998-99) and Brandon Short (1999).

A three-year Penn State letterman, he was a starting defensive end in 1963-65 under Coach Rip Engle. Sandusky earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees in health and physical education in 1966 and 1970, respectively. A standout athlete at Washington (Pa.) High School, he graduated first in his class and served as student marshall for his college at commencement.

Sandusky was a Penn State graduate assistant in 1966 and joined the coaching staff as a full-time assistant in 1969.

Sieminski was a two-way tackle for the Nittany Lions, earning letters from 1960-62 under Engle. From Swoyerville, Pa., he earned second team All-America honors in 1962 and in ‘67 was selected to the All-Time Penn State Team by the Pittsburgh Press. Recognized as a strong blocker and tackler, Sieminski earned his bachelor’s degree in physical education in 1962. He played in the 1963 Senior Bowl.

Sieminski was drafted in the fourth round by the National Football League’s San Francisco 49ers. He played defensive tackle for six years in the NFL with San Francisco, Atlanta and Detroit before starting a career as a high school teacher in Mountain Top, Pa.

Among the other Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame inductees are gridiron standouts Bud Carson and Dwight White, baseball players Ken Griffey, Sr, and Mark Gubicza and wrestling legend Bruce Baumgartner.


104 posted on 11/10/2011 4:40:37 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: RitaOK

According to former players (in the mid 2000s), when there were discipline issues on the Penn State team such as breaking team rules or whatever, they were sent to volunteer at the Second Mile foundation to work off their misdeeds. Sandusky was at practices, and he continued to bring children to campus.


105 posted on 11/10/2011 4:42:01 PM PST by petitfour
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To: skeeter; NewinTexsas; Scoutmaster
Or you can just tell me how Paterno 'protected' him if everyone else knew Sandusky was a molester in 1998, and had left the coaching staff in 1999.

OK...use some common sense here.

You're a head college football coach whose has been at it for 33 years. Your defensive coordinator is only 55 and has been rated as THE top defensive coach in the country.

You hear some "rumblings" about some possible legal issues of this coach re: his treatment of kids. He suddenly retires the ensuing June.

What? No wonderment from you as to why this top defensive coach wouldn't at least consider offers to coach elsewhere -- either as a defensive coach or perhaps get a head coaching job he's always wanted?

I mean it's not like this guy who's been your sidekick for so long suddenly stops popping up around campus. Actually he shows up as frequently as LAST WEEK!

But. Back to the Summer of 1999 --> 2000. Why aren't other schools pursuing him? He's only 55.

You're telling us...
...that the "all-powerful" JoePa in the prime of his coaching career...
...the one who is not only omnipotent @ Penn State but could be as omniscient @ State College as he wanted to be...
...isn't the least bit interested in why his asst isn't moving on to another position elsewhere???

And, even more incredulous, that the omniscient god of State College wouldn't have heard more "details" about those "rumblings."

Just stop.

Please.

You posters need to stop treating him like a god...

Either stop glorifying him as an unsinnable god...
...or if you're going to deify him, at least have the common courtesy to accord him such actual divine attributes...don't run it both ways and assume that this all-powerful man heard no evil, saw no evil, smelled no evil...etc.

You wind up dumbing down the whole word "god" by doing that!

106 posted on 11/10/2011 4:42:30 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: skeeter

1999:

Sandusky recently was named an Alumni Fellow in the College of Health and Human Development in recognition of his career achievements. Since the program began in 1973, there have been approximately 300 such awards made University-wide. It is considered the highest honor bestowed by the Alumni Association.


107 posted on 11/10/2011 4:42:58 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas

Sounds like whomever runs the Penn Sports Hall of Fame is complicit in the rape of young boys.


108 posted on 11/10/2011 4:43:21 PM PST by skeeter
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To: PieterCasparzen
Sorry...my fault.

Actually, it's means you did a GREAT job with your post...

'Cause it showed you played the role so well it was like you were in true apologist skin!!!

109 posted on 11/10/2011 4:44:15 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: skeeter
I’m beginning to think you’re just a pissed off Aggies fan.

No. I am an Alabama and Florida fan. No reason to be pissed off. Joe always provides a decent team for us to practice against.

110 posted on 11/10/2011 4:45:05 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter

STATE COLLEGE, Pa., June 14, 1999 — Defensive Coordinator Jerry Sandusky, largely responsible for Penn State earning the tag, “Linebacker U.,” will be inducted into the Washington-Greene County Chapter of the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame during a ceremony on Friday, June 18.
Also slated for induction is former Nittany Lion Guy Montecalvo, the head football coach at Washington (Pa.) High School.

During Sandusky’s 31 years on the Penn State coaching staff, the Lions have won nearly 80 percent of their games and earned 28 bowl invitations. As the linebackers coach, Sandusky has guided nine first-team All-America linebackers, the most recent being LaVar Arrington in 1998. Among some of the other more notable linebackers Sandusky has coached are: Jack Ham, Greg Buttle, Ed O’Neil, Shane Conlan and Andre Collins.

A native of Washington, Pa., Sandusky has been associated with Penn State football almost continuously since he arrived as a student-athlete at the university in 1962. He was a starting defensive end for the Lions from 1963-65. Following his graduation in 1966, he had one-year coaching stints at Juniata College and Boston University before returning to Penn State as an assistant coach in 1969. In 1977, he was promoted to defensive coordinator.

Sandusky is the founder of the Second Mile, a charitable organization concerned with the welfare of young people throughout Pennsylvania, with more than 100,000 children being touched through the Second Mile’s eight programs. His efforts with the organization resulted in his selection as the Pennsylvania winner of the SGMA Heroes award in 1996.

Sandusky was also awarded Penn State’s Barash Human Services Award, the YMCA’s Service-To-Youth Award and the Human Rights Award, presented by the Washington, Pa., branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People to Jerry and his father, Art, in 1993.

The ceremonies honoring Sandusky and Montecalvo will be held in Washington, Pa., at the Holiday Inn at the Meadowlands, with a reception on Thursday and the induction on Friday


111 posted on 11/10/2011 4:46:48 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter
Sounds like whomever runs the Penn Sports Hall of Fame is complicit in the rape of young boys.

Imagine if Joe had stood up like a man in 1999 and stopped all of this. How many boys (20, 30, 40 , 50 ... hundreds?) would he have saved from being raped?

112 posted on 11/10/2011 4:48:50 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter; NewinTexsas
If Sandusky was guilty of 'raping little boys' in 1998, why was he not arrested and jailed?

That will come out.

Mark Madden a radio talk show host has speculated the same we have...

They told Sandusky he would be punished for his indescretions by taking away his "in the wings" role as heir-apparent to Paterno...+ mandated he retire...not go somewhere else...but retire at age 55.

The problem there was -- that although they had the "goods" on him to keep him from coaching @ another university, from then on he had the "goods" on Penn State that would keep them quiet from reporting repeat offenses they uncovered.

He could claim Penn State knew about it in '98 and failed to act.

Therefore, it all became a conspiracy of silence. A conspiracy of cowards protecting their own jobs & pension checks & "THE PROGRAM."

113 posted on 11/10/2011 4:49:17 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian
Its likely Sandusky was asked to leave the program because of such 'rumblings'. So what.

And please dont assume my motives for asking questions. I think Paterno is neither God nor Satan.

114 posted on 11/10/2011 4:50:50 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
I would hope so. But we really don’t know what the nature of their relationship was from 1999 onward.

Joe kept him on as the defensive coordinator after he retired ...

115 posted on 11/10/2011 4:56:19 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: Paladin2

Uh.....

OK. I’m done with all this for quite awhile. Now, the
Alamo Bowl and sending Penn State players to volunteer at the guy’s ‘Foundation’ if they were in trouble. What did they have done/do there?

I can stick a fork in this. I’m done.


116 posted on 11/10/2011 4:57:22 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: NewinTexsas

Need a source on that one.


117 posted on 11/10/2011 4:59:04 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter; Scoutmaster; dfwgator; NewinTexsas
Seriously, I'd like to know. I have no reason to protect Paterno, but I wonder why everyone is carrying on like the old guy himself is a pedophile. If there is evidence that Paterno knew Sandusky was raping boys but didn't report it, I would've thought he'd be charged with the athletic & finance directors.If you know anything I don't please share.

Well, my initial reaction Monday afternoon was to lump Paterno in with the A.D. & VP, too. FREEPER poster Scoutmaster pinged me with the following...and I think he's probably right:

Under 23 Pa. C.S. Section 6311, which is the Pennsylvania Child Protective Services Law, when a staff member reports abuse, the person in charge of a school or institution must notify the Department of Public Welfare by telephone and in writing within 48 hours. Joe Paterno isn't the person in charge of Penn State; his obligations to report Sadusky to legal authorities were moral and not legal.

Since then, I focused on Paterno's JOB -- not prosecuting him.

But keep in mind -- the above is the "bare minimum" for legal considerations. They don't begin to address moral and ethical obligations.

In my mind, Paterno broke NCAA bylaws...including 2.4 which mandates responsibility off the field as well as on the field. He flunked responsibility.

ESPN interviewed the head of the NCAA today. He said that AFTER the criminal investigations had been completed, they would sweep in to evaluate what ethical/NCAA bylaws had been violated.

Btw, the more serious of the two charges vs. the AD & VP is perjury -- lying to a Grand Jury.

118 posted on 11/10/2011 4:59:36 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian

“pension checks”

The state is liable, too?


119 posted on 11/10/2011 4:59:40 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: skeeter

Golden Key Honorary Membership List

Mr. Gerald Sandusky
Assistant Professor Emeritus of Physical Education
130 Grandview Road
State College, PA 16801
814-237-0257
gas4@psu.edu

Long-time defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky retired following the 1999 football season after 32 years as a member of the Penn State football coaching staff, including the last 23 as defensive coordinator.

Sandusky is the founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization that addresses the welfare of children. The Second Mile was founded in 1977. Its mission is to challenge young people to achieve their potential by providing opportunities for them to develop life skills and self-esteem. Sandusky earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees in health and physical education in 1966 and 1970. Before joining the Penn State staff, Sandusky served as an assistant football, basketball, and track coach at Juniata College in 1967-68 and as offensive line coach at Boston University in 1968. He also was a Penn State graduate assistant in 1966, while working on his master’s degree.


120 posted on 11/10/2011 5:00:21 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter

2001:

THE BLUE & WHITE SOCIETY ADOPTS KIDS FOR A DAY OF FUN
The Blue & White Society, the student constituency of the Penn State Alumni Association, will will adopt 40 “little lions” from Jerry Sandusky’s Second Mile foster children program and treat them to a day of fun that will culminate in a Lions’ basketball game at the Bryce Jordan Center. Two groups of 20 youth from the Second Mile program will attend one of the following games: The Lions vs. Purdue on Saturday, Feb. 17, or the Lady Lions vs. Michigan on February 25. A pre-game party before each game, organized by the Blue & White Society, will feature the cheerleaders, a variety of games and activities, and an opportunity to meet the famous Lion. For more Alumni news, go to http://www.alumni.psu.edu


121 posted on 11/10/2011 5:03:12 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: combat_boots
The state is liable, too?

Yes.

It's a GOVT school. Penn State -- the state college located in all places, State College.

See also: Penn State's Legal Liability is Serious, Analysts Say [ 2011-12 budget $279M state appropriations]

122 posted on 11/10/2011 5:03:39 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: skeeter

10/5/1999:

Paterno: I always like to kid some of the guys on the staff who are getting gray -haired. Somebody said to me “Jerry Sandusky is getting gray and somebody else is getting gray and you are not getting gray.” I said “There are guys that have ulcers and there are guys who are carriers, I happen to be a carrier.”


123 posted on 11/10/2011 5:05:18 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas
PA law gives specific permission for non-company officers to go directly to the outside if they desire.

I worked for the state...they had a very strict policy as to how things were handled. I did state, however, that I followed up on every incident of which I had direct knowledge, and they were all handled appropriately

124 posted on 11/10/2011 5:05:49 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: NewinTexsas

Still no info re: Sandusky’s relationship with Paterno post 1999?


125 posted on 11/10/2011 5:05:58 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
11/9/1999: Question: Will it be strange to look over there and not see Jerry Sandusky next year? Paterno: I think sometimes we lose sight of what kind of a family we have had here at Penn State. It is like you are a potato farmer in Ireland and all of a sudden one son packs off and leaves you.
126 posted on 11/10/2011 5:09:01 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter

February 28, 2000
University Park, Pa. — MBNA America has agreed to be the lead sponsor for the MBNA Jerry Sandusky Testimonial Dinner and Roast, scheduled for Friday, April 14, 2000.

Hosted by Penn State Intercollegiate Athletics, the event will be held at the Bryce Jordan Center and will kickoff the annual Blue/White Weekend in University Park. The dinner and roast will be attended by an impressive lineup of past players, coaches, Penn State administrators, and others who wish to share their thoughts and some untold stories about the retired Penn State Nittany Lion football coach.

Net proceeds from the event will benefit The Second Mile through a newly established Second Mile/Jerry Sandusky endowment fund. Longtime defensive coordinator for the Nittany Lions, Jerry Sandusky, 55, retired last year after 32 years as a member of the Penn State football coaching staff to devote more of his time to The Second Mile.

The Second Mile is a nonprofit organization founded by Sandusky in 1977. Its mission is to challenge young people to achieve their potential by providing opportunities for them to develop life skills and self-esteem. The Second Mile offers 10 prevention, early intervention, and community-based programs and services to more than 100,000 children in Pennsylvania each year. The Second Mile is funded through private sector contributions.

“I’m thrilled MBNA has agreed to take the corporate lead in helping Pennsylvania children through this event,” said Sandusky. “MBNA has had a long-standing relationship with Penn State University and the State College community, and we are excited that they are a new corporate partner for our organization. I am also honored and moved that Penn State Intercollegiate Athletics has initiated this event and provided the opportunity for others to contribute to the endowment fund.”

“MBNA is proud to support Jerry Sandusky and a quality organization such as The Second Mile,” said Ric Struthers, senior vice chairman of MBNA America. “The people of MBNA are committed to helping the communities where we live and work. At our State College facility, MBNA people have volunteered for events sponsored by The Second Mile and have seen firsthand the impact this organization is making on young people throughout the state of Pennsylvania.”

MBNA Corporation, a bank holding company and parent of MBNA America Bank, N.A., is the largest independent credit card lender in the world. Last year, MBNA extended its relationship with the Penn State Alumni Association by signing a 10-year agreement to offer Penn State credit card programs, and consumer finance, deposit, and insurance products to students and alumni.

For ticket information please call Intercollegiate Athletics at (814) 863-0351. Reserved table sponsorships are available. Contact Hank Lesch, The Second Mile vice president of development, (814) 237-1719, ext. 104, or e-mail at .


127 posted on 11/10/2011 5:12:19 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter

Sandusky Roast to be
broadcast on the Internet
For those who cannot attend the MBNA Jerry Sandusky Testimonial Dinner and Roast at The Bryce Jordan Center at University Park at 7 p.m. Friday, April 14, the evening will be brought to you via the Internet. Those interested can view a RealPlayer streaming video feed at http://www.PennStateSports.com. The dinner and roast will kick off the annual Blue/White Weekend. For the full story on the event, go to http://www.psu.edu/ur/2000/sanduskydinner.html.

Sandusky, who engineered Penn State Football’s defense for several decades, retired at the end of last season. Sandusky is the founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization that addresses the welfare of children.


128 posted on 11/10/2011 5:13:08 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter

SANDUSKY RECEIVES HONORS UPON RETIREMENT

Long-time Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky has been honored as the American Football Coaches Association’s (AFCA) Division I-A Assistant Coach of the Year, and will also receive a Career Achievement Award by the Philadelphia Sports Writers Association. A member of the Penn State football coaching staff for 32 years before his retirement following the Alamo Bowl, Sandusky is largely responsible for Penn State earning the moniker “Linebacker U.” Founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization which addresses the welfare of children, Sandusky plans to be more involved in The Second Mile upon his retirement. For the full story, visit the sports information Web site at http://www.winmill.com/PSUFootball/preview/htpages/home.cfm.


129 posted on 11/10/2011 5:14:35 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas

Your point in posting these press clippings is... alot of folks thought Sandusky was a swell guy?


130 posted on 11/10/2011 5:14:49 PM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
Its likely Sandusky was asked to leave the program because of such 'rumblings'. So what.

No, it's a good Q.

The "so what" is that then what Paterno heard from McQueary that first Sat. in March, 2002...wasn't any huge surprise to him.

Already the report was credible from a credible person. Obviously, Paterno gave it credibility; otherwise he would have just told him to go meet with his superiors himself. Instead, Paterno met with them FIRST.

When you get confirmation that you have a pedophile spanning four years of such gut-wrenching actions...that would suggest he needs to be stopped.

Arrested.

Kept away from kids @ kids' camps @ State College, Erie & Harrisburg -- all run by Sandusky.

Does Paterno elevate his sense of Sandusky as a threat?

We don't know. The answer is probably for the rest of that winter of 2002 into the Spring and perhaps Summer & Fall of 2002.

At some point, he knew Sandusky wasn't arrested.
At some point, he knew McQueary have never been interviewed.
AT some point, he knew the admins had stonewalled the report.

Yet for whatever reasons, Paterno dropped the perceived threat level Sandusky posed to kids.

That's why the columnist of this thread wrote: "With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more," Paterno said in a statement. That's pathetic. You need hindsight to tell you that you must do whatever you can to stop a dangerous criminal?

The bottom line then of the "so what" is: I don't see how people can claim that Paterno didn't know enough of a history of Sandusky ('98 to early '02) -- and then put 2 & 2 together re: his access to 4th graders on up run thru sports camps throughout the state.

Those sports camps weren't hidden obscure camps.

Paterno needed to do whatever it took to at least get Sandusky arrested/investigated by local authorities. It's not as if he was a local man with little influence.

131 posted on 11/10/2011 5:14:49 PM PST by Colofornian (The Perv State KNitKinsey Lionizers: The campus which most now love to loathe!)
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To: Colofornian
I don't think we disagree with the particulars in this case. We certainly agree ol Joe did not act as dillegently as he should have, as you or I would have, presumably.

That is certainly clear in hindsight. I'm sure it is to Paterno, who probably wishes he had a second chance to deal with this mess.

Our differences are in our personal response to the story. Some think Paterno should be sharing a cell with Sandusky. I disagree.

132 posted on 11/10/2011 5:25:24 PM PST by skeeter
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To: RitaOK
Guess I need to read more.

Rita? Here's a comparison. And it's not an insult to what you know, it's just to give you an idea about how horrific this in scope - length of time, boys involved, and men in power with moral authority who either chose not to act or acted only to cover it up.

What you wrote is to the Penn State scandal as Borger is to the State of Texas.

And we're getting a glance that by the time this is over, it will be as Borger is to the Earth.

133 posted on 11/10/2011 5:28:59 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: skeeter
Your point in posting these press clippings is... alot of folks thought Sandusky was a swell guy?

And one word from Paterno would have stopped all this madness and saved dozens of little boys from being raped ...

134 posted on 11/10/2011 5:34:32 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter
Some think Paterno should be sharing a cell with Sandusky. I disagree.

I don't think he should go to jail. He will be dead soon. But, some here think he should still be coaching. Are you one of those?

135 posted on 11/10/2011 5:36:42 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas
I don't think Paterno is the criminal here.

Ask me what I think should be done with the actual homosexual child rapist.

136 posted on 11/10/2011 5:41:26 PM PST by skeeter
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To: terycarl
When I worked for the Indiana D.O.C., I signed forms indicating what I had the authority to do in certain instances. In every instance, I was required to notify someone at a certain level of authority, depending on circumstances. In no circumstance was I authorized to notify nor to give information to someone on the outside.

BS!

H. Staff may also submit their own report of known or suspected incidents of child abuse or neglect to the Indiana Department of Child Protective Services by calling 1-800-800-5556.

I. Staff shall report know or suspected incidents of child abuse or neglect directly to the Indiana Child Protective Services when there is reason to believe that the incident of child abuse or neglect was not adequately reported.

137 posted on 11/10/2011 5:46:19 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: skeeter
But, some here think he should still be coaching. Are you one of those?

I don't think Paterno is the criminal here. Ask me what I think should be done with the actual homosexual child rapist.

First answer the question. Thank you.

138 posted on 11/10/2011 5:48:04 PM PST by NewinTexsas
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To: RitaOK

The story apparently begins as early as 1994 or earlier, but let’s start in 1998. Jerry Sandusky worked with troubled youth as part of a charity called The Second Mile, which he helped found years earlier; Joe Paterno was actually on the board at some point, perhaps as a honorary trustee. Jerry Sandusky played for Joe Paterno from 1963-65, and served on his coaching staff starting in 1969. By 1998, Sandusky had served as defensive coordinator for years, was a close personal friend of Joe Paterno’s (for almost thirty years), and was the ‘heir apparent’ to replace Joe Paterno.

However, in 1998, the University Police conducted an investigation into incidents (plural) involving Sandusky showering with preteen boys in the Penn State football locker room showers. Sandusky would have been in his mid-50s. There’s nothing appropriate about that. Forget molestation. When you’re a man in your 50s working with troubled boys, showering naked with them is not therapy. It’s wrong. The GJ documents are careful to tell us that University President said he never saw the 1998 report; those document are frighteningly silent about whether Joe Paterno was interviewed in 1998, knew about the investigation, or saw all or part of that file or report.

Based on complaints by a mother, a DA looked into allegations of molestation but decided he did not have enough evidence. I may be wrong (I do not have the stomach to go back and read the reports again), but I do not believe the University Police report file was available to the DA, and I do not believe the University Police reported Sandusky to legal authorities.

This was Paterno’s defensive coordinator and friend and assistant coach of thirty years. It was the Penn State football locker room. What’s fairly clear is that Sandusky’s problem with little boys was widely known after (or before) the investigation. It would be disrespectful of Joe Paterno to think he was so naive and disrepected that everyone else would know and not tell Paterno.

Well, within months, Sandusky unexpectedly announced his early retirement. The official story is that Paterno told him that he would never be the head coach at Penn State. That’s probably true. And he was probably told that because . . . he showered with little boys.

Instead of disassociating completely with Sandusky, Penn State or Joe Paterno - because Joe Paterno was, as far as anyone who knew and understood the program believes, the athletic department in 1999 - decided to grant Sandusky ‘emeritus’ status.

Instead of disassociating with him, they gave him an office in the athletic building, with keys to the facilities, a parking space, a phone, internet access, discounts on campus, a tuition discount for himself and his adopted children, the rights to hold sleepover youth athletic camps on campus, and the rights to bring boys with him to insider football program events, such as sidelines and pre-game banquets. If you envision a child molester as an old man luring boys with candy, then Sandusky’s candy was bringing boys to the Penn State facilities and inside the football program, and Penn State - with Paterno’s knowledge, or at Paterno’s instruction - gave Sandusky the candy.

I have to believe that Paterno, as a decent man, could have called the President of Penn State into his home (he was that powerful) and said “no man who showers with boys is going to have access to MY football facilities.” At the very least, Paterno could have kept Sandusky from bringing boys to special football events, such as pre-game banquets.

In 2000, a janitor caught Sandusky in the football showers again, performing oral sodomy on a preteen boy. He didn’t report it to the police because he was ‘too scared” (but he reported it to the other janitors). Whether scared of long-time hero Sandusky (whose defense won the 1987 Orange Bowl National Championship), or bringing shame on Penn State, or reporting Joe Paterno’s friend of three decades, we don’t know. But I find it difficult to believe that Joe Paterno, who ran his program so that he knew if his boys broke curfew, even if it was in a town twenty miles away, would have heard that his good friend and former coach had another boy in the football showers. It was never reported and Joe Paterno apparently did nothing to stop Sandusky from bringing boys around to football events, to keep Sandusky from having access to the football showers, or . . . anything.

In 2002, Mike McQueary, former star QB for Penn State and then a graduate assistant, walked in on Sandusky anally raping a preteen boy in the football showers at 9:30 on a Friday night. McQueary didn’t stop Sandusky (who had been a coach when McQueary played) or rescue the boy. He didn’t call the police. He called his father and the decided that McQueary should report the incident to Paterno . . . the next morning. McQueary did.

Here’s an open part of the story. Paterno says he was only told that there was “fondling” and “maybe something of a sexual nature.” McQueary told his father it was anal rape. McQueary told the AD, Curley, and the Senior VP of Business and Finance, it was anal rape. Why wouldn’t he tell Paterno that?

Both the Grand Jury presentment and the GJ findings are very careful not to disclose what McQueary says he told Joe Paterno.

Paterno waited one day to call the AD, Curley, to whom he ‘reports’ on the organizational chart. Of course, in real life in 2002, everybody really reported to Paterno. Paterno was the man with the power that came with respect, 34 years of coaching, and National Championships. In fact, when Paterno was 78, the Trustees of the University asked Paterno to retire. He simply said no. That’s how powerful he is. Keep that in mind when people say Paterno reported this to his superiors. There may have been an organizational chart, but until the Trustees were forced to act and fired Paterno yesteday under this intense national spotlight, Paterno had no superiors at Penn State for two decades or more.

Curley and Schultz did nothing. They never reported the incident to the University Police, state youth protection, or any law enforcement. Sandusky kept his office in the Athletic building and emeritus status until this Sunday. He held sleepover camps for boys (although on the University’s other campus) through the Athletic Department until 2008.

Joe Paterno says “I fulfilled my legal duty. I reported to my superior.” And then he never followed up. He never asked about police involvement, or why Sandusky was still around, or hosting camps, or why Sandusky wasn’t charged with anything. Nobody at Penn State even tried to find out the identity of the boy who was raped.

The Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner stated publicly that Joe Paterno had a moral duty to report this to the police.

But for nine years, Joe Paterno, whom I believed to be a righteous, decent, moral man, hid behind the “I told my superior” and watched as Sandusky still roamed freely. He either didn’t ask any questions . . . or he didn’t care what was heard.

And now, we find that as of yesterday, there are twenty known victims of Sandusky, while there were only eight in the indictment. And we wonder why the indictment and these details were held until Joe Paterno could pass the All-Time Wins As A Division I Coach record. Because they were held.

But it wasn’t an incident in the showers in 2002. It was an unspeakable pattern of activities resembling Hell in a Hieronymus Bosch painting. Something that you would think could only come from the mind of a depraved novelist. It was a group of powerful men with moral authority who chose not to use that moral authority and not to act, or to act only to cover this up.

It was the total abdication of all moral authority by a man that tens or hundreds of millions of people had viewed as the Nation’s Grandfather for at three decades.

And it was a world concentrated on how a football program and football coaches would be affected when at least twenty young boys had been unspeakably violated. And, just as when nobody at Penn State bothered to ask the name of a boy raped on a shower, most people lost sight of them


139 posted on 11/10/2011 5:49:37 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: NewinTexsas
No.

Interpret that any way you like.

140 posted on 11/10/2011 5:51:59 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Colofornian; skeeter; NewinTexsas
Just so everyone knows, Colofornian 'pinged' me because he and I fell into the Paterno topic together and share similar opinions.

I share his amazement that anyone could read the GJ presentment and GJ findings and not find that Joe Paterno failed by every possible standard by which we measure moral behavior.

And if you read my early posts on this topic, I was a True Believer in Joe Paterno from youth until Monday.

141 posted on 11/10/2011 5:56:44 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Colofornian
No matter how many games he won, Joe Paterno will be remembered for doing nothing about this child abuse case. He should have retired 20 years ago!
142 posted on 11/10/2011 5:57:34 PM PST by kempo
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To: Scoutmaster
Do not disagree.

I believe, however, that our ire should be directed at the man who actually perpetrated these atrocities.

143 posted on 11/10/2011 6:10:16 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Vigilanteman
Dittos to your opinion.
144 posted on 11/10/2011 6:28:06 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: NewinTexsas

You say “I also wonder if Paterno is being scapegoated to keep the homosexual angle off the headlines”.

Paterno isn’t being scapegoated any more than the Catholic bishops who protected pedophile priests were scapegoated. Paterno and the Penn State administration did EXACTLY the same thing the bishops did, and for EXACTLY the same reasons.


145 posted on 11/10/2011 6:36:03 PM PST by StonyMan451 (As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: ClearBlueSky
So someone who SEES a rape,

is a witness and is obliged to report and testify about it.

and someone who KNOWS someone raped

and has nothing about which to testify doesn't "know" someone was raped. And remember, hearsay is generally not admissible in court.

AND PROTECTS THEM FOR YEARS

Is a pretty rotten person but how, specifically, did Paterno protect Sandusky? He pushed Sandusky out after the '98 investigation ended with no charges being filed, and he passed on the information regarding the 2002 case to people who should be presumed to be have been better able to investigate it than an 80-year-old football coach. And while they didn't take him out to the woods and shoot him like they should have, or call police like the should have, they did put new restrictions on his behavior to the point which appears to at least have been somewhat effective as there were no further reports of locker room abuse as per the Grand Jury report.

The act that brought Sandusky down occurred off campus.

146 posted on 11/10/2011 6:50:40 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7; Colofornian
And remember, hearsay is generally not admissible in court.

First, calling the police has nothing to do with hearsay. Hearsay is a rule of evidence.

Second, unless something said out of court is offered to prove the truth of the utterance, it's not hearsay. I can testify that I heard Bob tell me he saw John rape Mary. If that testimony is offered as evidence that I heard John say that, then it's not hearsay. If that testimony is offered as evidence that John raped Mary, then it's hearsay.

For Paterno to report that somebody told him that Sandusky abused somebody isn't hearsay if it's offered to prove that somebody told Joe about Sandusky. It's only hearsay if it's offered as proof of the rape.

Third, you would be surprised. There are so many exceptions to the hearsay rule that in Evidence class your professor will joke that the rule is actually an exception to the exceptions to the rule.

Fourth, most state's child abuse laws mandate reporting in school and similar situations by people in authority who hear a creditable claim of abuse. Yeah. So does Pennsylvania. The only question is who has the obligation to report that abuse that he or she didn't see.

I've actually posted the link to Pennsylvania's reporting statute on a couple of your posts about hearsay. Have you missed it?

Finally, Curley reporting it, under your analysis, would be double hearsay. So . . . wow, we have a bigger problem.

You keep bringing up hearsay.

What am I missing?

147 posted on 11/10/2011 7:07:40 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Tribune7

Ok- I finally understand now. The real victims here are the officials of the university, Paterno, Sandusky,whatever audience the rape had etc, etc.
Nothing to do with boys being sodomized.
Nothing to do with a foundation to HELP disadvantaged kids being used to molest them instead.
The tragedy is what bad press the university is getting. The shame is firing a poor, old man who never did nothin’ but make everyone happy.
The people rioting in the streets aren’t horrified by the sexual molestation of children( after all, maybe they consented and sex is natural and its nobody’s business, and, and...) those kids probably enticed the venerable, respected Sandusky. Dirty little punks to hurt the U. of Pennsylvania and ruin everyones enjoyment of football!
I get it- I’m done.
Paterno is a victim, Sandusky is a victim, everyone who knew is a victim and we’re picking on them!
Forget the anally ruptured children.They shoulda had witnesses. All hail the god Football.
May God help this country.


148 posted on 11/10/2011 7:12:42 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: Tribune7; Colofornian
and has nothing about which to testify doesn't "know" someone was raped. And remember, hearsay is generally not admissible in court.

I know you're not an attorney, but do you realize that under this hearsay piffle you've been posting on every thread, if somebody at worked yelled to me from the breakroom "quick, call the cops - Susie's boyfriend just came in and stabbed her!", I'd have to say:

"Sorry, I didn't see it, so it would be hearsay. Quit putting pressure on that artery and call them yourself. I'm going to report it to my supervisor."

149 posted on 11/10/2011 7:16:12 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I stand for something; therefore, I can't stand Romney)
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To: Scoutmaster
No offense but I don't check every one of your posts and I believe that this is the first time I mentioned "hearsay".

And it wasn't to a post regarding reporting crimes to police but a response to someone claiming that someone "KNOWS" someone raped someone and "PROTECTS THEM FOR YEARS".

You seem to really, really want to believe the worst but you don't even know if McQueary even told Paterno the boy was raped.

150 posted on 11/10/2011 7:19:50 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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