NASA discovers first Earth-sized planets beyond our Solar System

The Huntsville Times ^ | 12/20/11 | Lee Roop

[KevinDavis]

MOFFET FIELD, California - NASA's Kepler mission has discovered the first Earth-sized planets orbiting a sun outside our Solar System. NASA says the planets - Kepler-20e and Kepler-20f - are too close to their star to be in the so-called habitable zone. That's where where liquid water could exist on their surfaces.

[GonzoGOP]

Which argument is that?

That all life walked out of the garden of Eden. Or more precisely that life was only created in one place at one time.

[Oceander]

Try reading the Fermi Paradox. Then get back to me.

For someone who's so cocksure about himself, you would do well to take your own advice and actually read what's up on that wikipedia link you posted. Suffice it to say that the first sentence of that article says all that need be said to refute the position you think the Fermi Paradox supports (which it does not); to wit: "The Fermi paradox (Fermi's paradox or Fermi-paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations."(Emphasis added).

The last time I checked, the term "apparent" in that context would mean that the so-called Fermi Paradox is a state of affairs that appears to be, but is not, a paradox or contradiction.

[MasterGunner01]

WAIT!!

I thought NASA’s main job above everything else is “Muslim outreach.” What's all this nonsense about science and space exploration? Muslims are still stuck in the 7th century and they have no use for the 21st.

[GeronL]

How about “sovereign” land grants like they tried in some parts of North America but without loyalty to Earth?

[central_va]

I pulled this from a theological website:

The Bible says nothing to indicate that God created life anywhere but Earth. But it does not explicitly deny it. Some have speculated that God's omnipotence and glory might be expressed by many planets with life.

Read more: link

[GeronL]

It’s not about math. We simply don’t have the technology to find aliens right now.

[calex59]

Such technology, combined with better propulsion systems could be our key to deep space travel. Just thinking out loud.

Well then think about this. While I am a admirer of space travel and wish we could make the journey to other galaxies, or even other solar systems within our galaxay, there is one problem that seems to difficult to over come. That is water. It would be possible to grow food, sending married couples who could reproduce would solve the long time problem, but in order to grow food and for couples to survive long enough to have children they need water.

It is impossible at this time to carry enough water to make a very long journey to other planets.

Mars would be about our limit and then we would be limited to how long we could stay, unless water Ice is found on Mars.

Our real hope would lie in a space warp of some sort, one that would open up a gate to another part of the universe and allow us to travel very quickly to some where light years away. Is it possible? I don't know but it would seem if space and time curve, that such a thing would be possible using the correct math to solve the problem. At this point I don't know what math that would be.

[central_va]

Except for Earth, the universe is a violent, lonely place devoid of any intelligent civilizations or life. As for extraterrestrial slime and mold, who cares, we have enough here.

Even if other life was detected and we wanted to explore, travel at speeds approaching the speed of light is impossible, as the amount of energy needed to travel that fast approaches infinity. So visiting this fantasy life form isn't gonna happen.

I find other star systems interesting also but I harbor no illusions as to actually finding life there or travel to other stars. Can't happen.

[central_va]

It IS about the math. For example harnessing the power of the atom and nuclear particle theory was researched with ONLY math which quantified the physics involved. Nobody could see sub atomic particles, it was and still remains a mathematical problem set. It is totally reasonable to draw conclusions from math and probability, actually to do otherwise is plain ignorant.

[GonzoGOP]

The problem with Fermi was not the logic, but the tools. Remember this was 1951. The only tool they had was radio astronomy. Radio astronomy can only look for technological life. Not intelligent, technological. If you are not blasting radio into space, in 1951 you are quite invisible.

So if the only purpose of life is to create technological civilization then there is a paradox. However that doesn't seem to be the case. The hominids are a uniquely unsuccessful branch of Earth's family tree. All but one species of hominids has died out (That is us by the way). And we cam within a few hundred breeding pairs after Toba, long before anyone picked up a radio transmitter.

In an earlier post I talked about the lunar lotto. But when Fermi died in 1954 they still thought Luna was a regular moon formed by accretion. It wasn't until they brought rocks back in 1969 that it became obvious that Luna was an irregular moon formed by collision.

Also in 1954 there had been a lot less research into what constitutes intelligence. Intelligent life meant technology. Well now we know that dolphins and whales communicate and have abstract concepts like names (or at least signals that identify an individual), chimps use simple tools. So we now have to draw a line between intelligent and technological. A line Fermi in 1954 would never have considered. You could have a highly developed civilization of squids. Communication, abstract though, use simple tools, but being an underwater race, no fire, no refined metals, and no radio. To Fermi they do not exist.

Finally in 1954 it was assumed that interstellar travel was easier that it turns out to be. This is critical to Fermi's argument because he postulated that if life exists it must colonize the entire galaxy. However in 1950 didn't have a good handle on cosmic rays and radiation. The Van Allen radiation belt wouldn't be discovered until 1958. Cosmic rays were not accurately measure until the year of Fermi's death, four years after the Paradox was proposed. So it might take much longer to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other, and just might not be worth the effort.

Again there is only a Paradox if the only type of life you consider is the kind with radio's and space ships. My definition is a bit broader than that.

[dragnet2]

But when Fermi died in 1954 they still thought Luna was a regular moon formed by accretion. It wasn't until they brought rocks back in 1969 that it became obvious that Luna was an irregular moon formed by collision.

How primitive are we, where we can't even determine what exactly it collided with, and can only speculate and throw out theories. Yet there are people here who claim there is no other life in the entire universe?

What a hoot.

[central_va]

You could have a highly developed civilization of squids.

Would the cost to develop technology to travel across the galaxy be worth it to find really smart calamari?

[CodeToad]

You assume Fermi had all the facts and his model isn’t wrong. One thing about a true scientist: They always know their perfect conclusions can be completely wrong.

Fermi didn’t have the knowledge that we have today so his model cannot possibly be accurate. Just a few years ago the idea of tracking life sustaining planets was thought to be nearly impossible, yet, the pace of findings is amazing.

[central_va]

Everything discovered so far SUPPORTS Fermi. I don’t expect that to change, then again I studied probability and have a grasp of physics and math. I can accept reality.

[ExCTCitizen]

Lets send 0 and the Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and RINOs to it so they can have their Utopia.

[CodeToad]

You might have studied it, by as Reagan said of Communism and reading: “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”

[ExCTCitizen]

Hope there is INTELLIGENT life out there. In 2008, 53% of voters were unintelligent.

[GonzoGOP]

Would the cost to develop technology to travel across the galaxy be worth it to find really smart calamari?

We could send a robotic probe to Alpha Centari using an Orion drive and have it there in under 100 years using 1960s technology and recycled nuclear bombs. At less cost than Obama's Solyndra boondoggle. So is it worth more than a defunct solar power company? Or one under used high speed rail project? How about foreign aid to some country that hates us anyway. Building the thing would create more jobs than either of those.

The importance of Kepler is that it greatly narrows the search at minimal cost. We now know it can spot an Earth sized planet. It can spot life zone planets. And because it observes in visible rather that radio spectrum it can spot the tell tale spectral signature of life should it exist.

Once we have a target, then we can talk about a probe. You want to keep trip time down to a couple of centuries (hence robot probes). So the close stars can use Orion drives. Farther out you need exotics so getting there might not be something we do anytime soon.

[dragnet2]

Good post.

[KevinDavis]

God created the Earth and the stars. Besides didn’t Jesus had other flocks to tend too??