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British archaeologist destroys Holocaust deniers' argument with mass grave find at Treblinka
The Daily Mail ^ | January 18, 2012 | Lee Cain

Posted on 01/29/2012 10:20:49 AM PST by Aircop_2006

A British forensic archaeologist has unearthed fresh evidence to prove the existence of mass graves at the Nazi death camp Treblinka - scuppering the claims of Holocaust deniers who say it was merely a transit camp.

Some 800,000 Jews were killed at the site, in north east Poland, during the Second World War but a lack of physical evidence in the area has been exploited by Holocaust deniers.

Forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls has now undertaken the first co-ordinated scientific attempt to locate the graves.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Germany; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: holocaust; holocaustdenial; holocaustdeniers; nazism; treblinka
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1 posted on 01/29/2012 10:20:56 AM PST by Aircop_2006
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To: Aircop_2006

Does he really think the Holocaust deniers will be silenced by this?


2 posted on 01/29/2012 10:26:30 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: Aircop_2006

General Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, had the death camps exhaustively photographed and documented so that there would be no possibility of denial.

And the scum of the earth still practices the big lie of denial!


3 posted on 01/29/2012 10:30:36 AM PST by DakotaGator (Weep for the lost Republic! And keep your powder dry!!)
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To: Aircop_2006

4 posted on 01/29/2012 10:32:12 AM PST by bigheadfred
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To: DakotaGator

Eisenhower had concentration camps photographed and documented. The death camps were all in Poland, or areas the Germans took from Poland.


5 posted on 01/29/2012 10:36:33 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Aircop_2006

For the deniers, it won’t change a thing.


6 posted on 01/29/2012 10:51:20 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: Aircop_2006

Bump.


7 posted on 01/29/2012 10:54:09 AM PST by EternalVigilance ('Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must...undergo the fatigue of supporting it.')
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To: Jack Hammer

His words, not mine


8 posted on 01/29/2012 10:55:11 AM PST by Aircop_2006 (Red State, Germ Offensive.)
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To: Jack Hammer

His words, not mine


9 posted on 01/29/2012 10:55:25 AM PST by Aircop_2006 (Red State, Germ Offensive.)
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To: Aircop_2006

Bloody double post! :P


10 posted on 01/29/2012 10:57:09 AM PST by Aircop_2006 (Red State, Germ Offensive.)
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To: DakotaGator

Holocaust deniers make me wish that society approved of public flogging.


11 posted on 01/29/2012 10:59:50 AM PST by GAB-1955 (I write books, serve my country, love my wife and daughter, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: Aircop_2006

Just a story. Skip it if you wish. My husband’s family is Jewish, wonderful people from the Mississippi Delta area. Just prior to WWII his grandfather made multiple transatlantic trips to beg and plead with their family to come with him back to the United States. All but one thought that they would be fine. The one who came was a young doctor on the last ocean liner out before the beginning of hostilities. A German submarine surfaced and boarded the liner, looking for Jewish refugees. She positioned herself on deck against the railing and was determined to go overboard rather than be captured. She completed her medical credentials and became quite prominent in the area as a doctor and administrator. Cousin Elsbeth. There is no record of the family that stayed behind.


12 posted on 01/29/2012 11:00:24 AM PST by ArmyTeach (Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain ... USS Iowa BB 61)
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To: Aircop_2006

Yes, of course - I was replying to the thread. Nothing personal.


13 posted on 01/29/2012 11:42:40 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: DakotaGator
General Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, had the death camps exhaustively photographed and documented so that there would be no possibility of denial.

How did he do that, since all of the extermination camps were under Soviet control.

14 posted on 01/29/2012 11:48:14 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Aircop_2006
German SS soldiers freely admitted what happened at Treblinka. Did the survivors of the “family camps in the east” where the Warsaw Jews were supposedly sent ever testify that Treblinka was all a lie? What happened to the Warsaw Jews? Did they vanish in to thin air?
15 posted on 01/29/2012 12:00:53 PM PST by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: PAR35
Really?

U.S. forces liberated the Buchenwald concentration camp near Weimar, Germany, on April 11, 1945, a few days after the Nazis began evacuating the camp. On the day of liberation, an underground prisoner resistance organization seized control of Buchenwald to prevent atrocities by the retreating camp guards. American forces liberated more than 20,000 prisoners at Buchenwald. They also liberated Dora-Mittelbau, Flossenbürg, Dachau, and Mauthausen.

British forces liberated concentration camps in northern Germany, including Neuengamme and Bergen-Belsen. They entered the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, near Celle, in mid-April 1945. Some 60,000 prisoners, most in critical condition because of a typhus epidemic, were found alive. More than 10,000 of them died from the effects of malnutrition or disease within a few weeks of liberation.

www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005131

16 posted on 01/29/2012 12:03:15 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: PAR35; Tzar; word_warrior_bob; risen_feenix; EnglishCon; Bill W was a conservative; verga; ...
DakotaGator said:
General Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, had the death camps exhaustively photographed and documented so that there would be no possibility of denial.
PAR35 wrote:
How did he do that, since all of the extermination camps were under Soviet control.
I ask PAR35 are you claiming that the death camps were not extensively photographed? Or that the Nazi death camps did NOT kill millions of innocent people?
17 posted on 01/29/2012 12:05:23 PM PST by narses
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To: Aircop_2006

Bizarre. Who needs “fresh evidence” of established historical facts?! Does this make some people (there and here) feel good, righteous, self-satisfied?


18 posted on 01/29/2012 12:10:50 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Aircop_2006

There were some differences among the German concentration camps. The extermination camps were Treblinka and Auschwitz, which were liberated by the Soviets.


19 posted on 01/29/2012 12:13:22 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: PzLdr
"The death camps were all in Poland, or areas the Germans took from Poland."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

20 posted on 01/29/2012 12:19:51 PM PST by Dacus943
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To: ArmyTeach
I worked for a company in New Jersey owned by a man whose family left Germany in 1933. His wife was born in Belgium and she was sent as a little girl out to a Christian family in the country side and hidden for the duration of the war. The rest of her family perished. I would have a very difficult time resisting the urge to punch out (or worse) anyone who within my hearing would deny that the Holocaust occurred.

For one thing the Germans, as was and is their nature, kept very precise records and what most people don't realize is that the death camps were just the final act. As many or perhaps more were killed by the "task forces" (Einsatzgruppen) or mobile killing squads sent into Poland and the Soviet Union as the regular army forces took territory. It was all thoroughly documented and anyone who would deny it is either an imbecile or is operating from the most evil of motives.

21 posted on 01/29/2012 12:22:48 PM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: narses
The "extermination camps," or "death camps" were all in eastern Poland, except for Auschwitz, which was in southwestern Poland. All of them were liberated by the Soviets, although several of them had been shut down and destroyed by the Nazis long before the Soviets arrived.

(The term "death camp" is a bit of a misnomer, except for Auschwitz. In the rest of the "death camps," almost nobody "camped" there; they were industrial murder mills which killed people almost as fast as they arrived.)

The camps Eisenhower liberated were KzL's (concentration camps) in Germany. A lot of people died in those camps due to starvation, disease, abuse, etc., but they were not built for the sole purpose of killing people. They were built, mostly long before the Wannsee Conference, to imprison and intimidate Hitler's political enemies.

22 posted on 01/29/2012 12:24:36 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Dacus943
Dachau, established only a few months after the Nazis took power in 1933, was a concentration camp, not a "death camp". At Dachau, there were barracks, facilities where the prisoners were forced to work, etc. Some people even finished their sentences there and were released.

Treblinka, built to implement the "Final Solution," was a death camp. There was a railroad siding, facilities to undress the victims and process ( = steal) their belongs, gas chambers, and crematoria. The only barracks (besides those for the SS guards) were for the few Jews who were kept alive briefly to help run the place. The only "work" that was done there was related to killing people.

Dachau was a prison, albeit a very nasty, awful, evil prison. Treblinka was a factory for turning human beings into ashes.

23 posted on 01/29/2012 12:31:09 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: PAR35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2rXhWeMzTo

This was a British documentary filmed, in part, by Alfred Hitchcock. All the camps were apparently not controlled by the Soviets. I have only watched this once, about 15 years ago. I do not need to see it again.


24 posted on 01/29/2012 12:42:46 PM PST by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: Campion
Your information is solid.

This highlights something which I often comment on and which has disturbed me for decades. When I was in High School, I had teachers who taught about Marxism. Some of them liked it, some didn't -- but they wanted young people to know about Communism. Same thing in College (I have a BA in History), although there, I think all the teachers liked Communism.

But Fascism? Nazi political theory?? Sssshhhhhhhhh. It's a secret. We don't talk about Fascism. No one is supposed to know what it looks like. You're not supposed to be able to recognize it. We just don't teach that stuff.

The difference between Concentration Camp (very bad) and Death Camp (worse) falls along the same lines. Our society has done a poor job of educating people about the details of what the Nazis did and how they thought. A lot of people believe they have seen photographs from "death camps" of jubilant Jews welcoming the Allied liberators. Nope. Concentration camps, sure. Death camps? Much less so, because most of the people didn't survive.

I look at America is 2011 and I truly believe that the reason we don't talk about Fascism is because we are a fascist society and we are embarrassed and don't want the people to recognize the truth. True, we have neither death camps nor concentration camps, but there's a lot more to fascism than just that. We say "crony capitalism" but we might just as well say "fascist economics".

25 posted on 01/29/2012 12:44:11 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (When the night falls, it falls on me, and when the day breaks I'm in pieces.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

By he, do you mean the archaeologist in the headline???

If so, you didn’t read the story... “Forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls...” I doubt many British parents name sons Caroline.... #justsayin


26 posted on 01/29/2012 12:46:24 PM PST by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world's finest bullmitt. | FR Class of 1998 |)
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To: Campion
While not mass "extermination camps", dedicated solely to the extermination of Jews, Dachau and Buchenwald, liberated by the Americans, were death camps too. Horrible human “medical experiments” were carried out at both. Both had crematoriums to dispose of the bodies of those who died including those who died from the forced labor and from near starvation and disease due to the inhumane conditions.

Initially most of the prisoners at Buchenwald were political prisoners but after Kristallnacht nearly 10,000 Jews were sent there. It also held Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies and German military deserters and later on allied POW’s .

“Periodically, the SS staff conducted selections throughout the Buchenwald camp system and dispatched those too weak or disabled to work to so-called euthanasia facilities such as Bernburg, where euthanasia operatives gasse them as part of Operation 14f13, the extension of euthanasia killing operations to ill and exhausted concentration camp prisoners. SS physicians or orderlies killed, by phenol injection, other prisoners unable to work.”

As the US forces came near, many were shot and thrown into mass graves in an attempt to cover up before the Germans fled. Townspeople could smell the crematoriums and many knew what was going on there and yet turned a blind eye and denied they knew what was taking place there.

Have you ever seen the footage and interviews of the US troops who liberated Dachau and Buchenwald? Many of these men, who had seen years of hard combat were reduced to tears, some sobbing uncontrollably over the horrors of what they saw in those concentration camps.

27 posted on 01/29/2012 12:49:22 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Paleo Conservative
Does he really think the Holocaust deniers will be silenced by this?

You can't argue with idiots, it's a waste of time.

28 posted on 01/29/2012 12:52:36 PM PST by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013 The end of an error.)
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To: Campion

The Soviets liberated Auschwitz? I thought Obama said his grandfather did.


29 posted on 01/29/2012 12:54:29 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: ArmyTeach
One of my professors was also on that last transatlantic liner before the outbreak of WWII, along with his family, who were Viennese Jews (he was then about 4 years old). He went on to have a very distinguished career and to become one of the top scholars in America in his specialty.

Who knows how many people who would have become brilliant scholars, scientists, and doctors were killed because of the irrational obsession of one loser who happened to have a talent for demagoguery? Certainly a large number.

30 posted on 01/29/2012 1:04:19 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission

I show this film, Memories of the Camps, to my 8th graders as part of the World War II unit. It is extremely graphic. Even my most “worldly” or cynical ones are shaken by what they see. The English teacher has them read Diary of Anne Frank at about the same time. The film opens with the British liberation of Bergen-Belsen which is where she died only a month before. After seeing the movie, swazticas are no longer cool.


31 posted on 01/29/2012 1:16:42 PM PST by hanamizu
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To: PAR35

You honestly think that all the camps were in areas under Soviet control. There were literally hundreds of slave labor & concentration camps all over Europe ,also WE liberated parts of what were to be parts of the Soviet zone of control . Unlike the Red Army our officers were allowed a degree of freedom in regard to initiative & they also got evidence hell my late Uncle Ed helped liberate the Concentration camp outside the city of Dachau.


32 posted on 01/29/2012 1:36:06 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Aircop_2006

Imagine a stadium filled with 80,000 people. Then multiply that by ten. Just at one camp. There was also Sobibor and Chelmno (plus a few more) which were purely extermination camps. Unlike some others which were work camps. How these people can deny them even with German documents to the fact.


33 posted on 01/29/2012 1:42:05 PM PST by SkyDancer ("Never Have Regrets Because At The Time It Was Exactly What You Wanted")
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To: HenpeckedCon

Do they deniers really believe the Commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hoess, was lying at Nuremberg? He admitted everything that happened there, why would he lie? It sure wasn’t going to save his skin, he ended up hanging anyway.


34 posted on 01/29/2012 1:42:56 PM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Campion

Auschwitz was essentially three camps in one.....Birkenau was the death camp section, another section was generally where political prisoners, and Russian POWs were sent, and the third Auschwitz camp was were companies like IG Farben set up factories to utilize slave labor.


35 posted on 01/29/2012 1:50:28 PM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission
This was a British documentary filmed, in part, by Alfred Hitchcock. All the camps were apparently not controlled by the Soviets. I have only watched this once, about 15 years ago. I do not need to see it again.

Thank you for posting this. I watched it. I was hard, very hard to watch. This was not a systematic “extermination” camp but a death camp none the less and anyone trying to deny it, Dachau and other concentration camps within Germany and Austria had a gas chambers and crematoriums for the purpose of mass exterminations. And it doesn’t even get into the horrific human “experiments” carried out at some of these camps including Dachau, not only on Jews, but on Catholics and Lutherans, other political objectors and on ethic Poles and Gypsies, homosexuals and other “undesirables” such as people with Downs Syndrome, the mentally ill and physically infirmed.

Not to minimize the horrors of the systematic killing camps like Auschwitz, but in some ways those people may have been the lucky ones; killed quickly rather than killed slowing by unimaginably hard forced labor, slow starvation and disease, women forced into prostitution and then the medical experimentations even on the children.

I can’t understand anyone who wants to minimize or deny the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps no matter where they were located.

36 posted on 01/29/2012 1:54:38 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Revolting cat!; narses; Aircop_2006

Extermination camps = places with large gas chambers to which there were enormous deportations of hundreds of thousands of Jews. There were only six of these, Auschwitz, Chelmno, Maidanek, Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka. All were in Poland, none were liberated by Americans. At Belzec, there were believed to be 600,000 Jews sent there; only two are known to have survived.

The other camps, in Germany, Austria, and France (Dachau, Buchemwald, Mauthausen, etc.) killed prisoners by shooting, lethal injection, and starvation, and they have death totals were at most in the tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands. These camps are not even remotely comparable to the extermination camps.


37 posted on 01/29/2012 1:57:24 PM PST by denydenydeny (The more a system is all about equality in theory the more it's an aristocracy in practice.)
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To: Verginius Rufus
Who knows how many people who would have become brilliant scholars, scientists, and doctors were killed because of the irrational obsession of one loser who happened to have a talent for demagoguery? Certainly a large number.

that statement would also apply to the U.S. abortion policies....both situations boggle the mind.

38 posted on 01/29/2012 1:57:58 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: denydenydeny
There were only six of these, Auschwitz, Chelmno, Maidanek, Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka. All were in Poland, none were liberated by Americans. At Belzec, there were believed to be 600,000 Jews sent there; only two are known to have survived.

There were revolts at Sobibor and Treblinka, in each case, about 300 inmates managed to escape.

39 posted on 01/29/2012 2:03:53 PM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Nebr FAL owner; Pete from Shawnee Mission; narses; MD Expat in PA

OK, I see the problem here now. It is ignorance of history. Some folks don’t know the difference between a concentration camp, a labor camp, and a death camp. While many of you might not have the resources to visit the facilities and learn the history on-site, there are many resources available through libraries or online.

Some specifics mentioned by some of you:

Dachau - set up as a concentration camp (the first one), primarily for political prisoners although also used by others deemed undesirable.

Buchenwald - primarily a labor camp, many died from starvation and disease, (and some executions) but not an extermination center. Interestingly enough, it was operated by the Soviets after they captured it, and some folks deemed undesirable by both the Nazis and the Reds were imprisoned there by both.

For those of you with little knowledge of the subject except what you learned from your politically correct teachers, you might start with the map here:

http://history1900s.about.com/od/holocaust/ss/Camps-Map.htm
(Just breaks down between concentration camps and death camps).

See also the list here, that designates the extermination camps.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/cclist.html


40 posted on 01/29/2012 2:52:33 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Dacus943

Dachau was a concentration camp. Its principle reason for existing was to hold prisoners. Many died from overwork, guard brutality, and executions. But its principle function was not the direct murder of arriving inmates. That dubious distinction belonged to Treblinka, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Birkenau [ and the sixth, whose name i can’t recall].


41 posted on 01/29/2012 2:55:20 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: GAB-1955

Holocaust approvers make me wish for forced deprogramming.


42 posted on 01/29/2012 3:06:16 PM PST by proudofthesouth (Democratic Party - The party of genocide.)
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To: PAR35

Oh I understand the difference between slave labor camp were you were worked to death, a concentration camp were you were abused to death & a death camp were you went up the crematorium chimney within a couple hours after you arrived.

What you seem to be hung up on is the fact that the folks who disagree with you understand that the whole damn system was set up for one purpose to control those that the powers that be wanted to be rid of one way or another & if you could make money off the misery/slave labor of others so much the better.

The fact that their are assh*les who still claim that no one was killed (as opposed to merely dying)at these camps is a friggen disgrace . It is also a recipe for disaster simply because those that claim it never happened provide cover for those who would do it again if they have half a chance. And yes I include the government of the United States in that category as well.


43 posted on 01/29/2012 3:13:52 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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I lived in Brooklyn NY in the 50s. I had neighbors who were Jews with tattoos on their arms.

It amazes me that there are deniers out there. People who do not have a clue and for whatever political reason deny that which happened.

Obviously very uneducated and ignorant people.

I read that Eisenhower made people from the local area come and view the concentration camp so that they could no longer deny that which happened right outside their own back door.


44 posted on 01/29/2012 6:29:06 PM PST by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: PAR35

I’ve been to Buchenwald, next to the very cultured city of Weimar, Germany.

It may not be technically designated a “death camp” but well over 55,000 people were purposely murdered there. It still reeks, spiritually...of death.

The furnaces are still there...looking well maintained enough to start up tomorrow. The dissection tables where gold teeth were pulled from the bodies are still there, as well as a cellar where 2000 prisoners were strangled to death by hanging them up on iron hooks.

Nearby are the large brightly colored Gestapo barracks. There are photos of the Gestapo guards hamming it up with their girlfriends on the weekends....and the wife of the camp commander (”the witch of Buchenwald”)had a penchant for decorative lampshades made with tattooed human skin (another reason never to get inked!).

The concentration camp of Buchenwald is truly an sad and chilling place—whatever you name it.


45 posted on 01/29/2012 8:18:15 PM PST by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns

Ilse Koch’s nickname was “The Bitch of Buchenwald”. I believe she committed suicide after the war.

Her husband, Karl Koch, was shot by the SS, on orders from Himmler, after he was convicted by an SS court of stealing prisoner property that belonged to the state, and murdering prisoners without authorization, to cover up the crime.


46 posted on 01/29/2012 8:29:30 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: rdl6989
You can't argue with idiots, it's a waste of time.

True, but you might possibly inoculate with the truth some of those who otherwise would, through their lies, join their ranks. Let the truth go forth and do it's work!

47 posted on 01/29/2012 9:37:22 PM PST by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Revolting cat!

I believe the extermination camps per say were Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec, all on Polish territory and all liberated by the Soviets.


48 posted on 01/30/2012 3:16:17 AM PST by Amberdawn
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To: Amberdawn

Also Chelmno. Maidjanek, and Birkenau.


49 posted on 01/30/2012 6:52:20 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Aircop_2006; Paleo Conservative; Jack Hammer
how could anyone deny the Holocaust or the Pojramos (Gypsy holocaust)? In pre-war Poland Jews were an integral part of society -- 20% of the population and in cities like Warsaw they were 40% of the population and in places like Pinsk (now in modern day Belarus), 90%.

Everyone had Jewish friends or shopkeepers etc.

I moved to Poland 2 years ago after marrying a Polki :)

The massacre of these Polish jews along with another 2 million or so Polish gentiles (don't forget that the Nazis saw the Poles as vermin too) is there everywhere around here.

It cannot be denied.

The Nazis not only murdered Jews, but also gentiles - Poles and Gypsies -- the Poles remember their dead (jewish and gentile) and the Jews remember their dead, but no one remembers the horrors perpetrated on the gypsies

In fact even in the hell-hole that was Auschwitz, the Jews were not at the bottom -- the worst indignities were subjected on the gypsies -- if you read of the experiments that Mengele did on their children, it makes you think that humanity is despicable.

50 posted on 01/30/2012 7:08:03 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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