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To: HMS Surprise

No. My support for the original rebellion is not hypocracy. Taxation by England of the colonists enacted by a legislature where the colonists were not and could not be represented was wrong. England made war against the Colonists in support of that wrong. Because England was wrong, England lost. England’s loss was codified by treaty with the United States.

The rebellion of the southern states was not justified. No state has a right to unilaterally leave the union. Legitimate disputes between the states and the federal government were required by the constitution to be settled by application to the supreme court. The southern rebels recognized they had no legitimate dispute. When the southern rebels resorted to war, they chose a ‘might makes right’ approach. They lost that too.


13 posted on 02/18/2012 12:11:14 PM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

Your arguments fail. The question isn’t: Does a State have the right to rebel? The question is: Was the theory of the Declaration of Independence a universal truth, or was it a one-time specious proclamation that only applied at one moment in history? The English could argue, and did, that the Colonists were the freest most prosperous people on earth, and therefore had no right to disable their eternal connection to the motherland.

The Supreme Court settles nothing forever by the way, for if it did Dred Scott would still be the law of the land.


16 posted on 02/18/2012 12:17:15 PM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can still go to hell.)
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To: donmeaker

On a further point, what exactly were the grievances of the Southern states? Lincoln had not even taken office, and had vowed that despite his personal views, he would take no actions to interfere with slavery in the Southern states. Whether or not this was true or not we will never know, as the Southern states, when they lost in a legitimate national election, simply walked out in a huff when the result did not go in a way they favored. They then set about seceding from the US, months before Lincoln was even sworn in.

The Southern states were not exactly bastions of state’s rights either. For years, they used the national government to try and push pro-slavery views onto other states that wanted no part of it, and the existence things such the Fugitive Slave Act bear testimony to that fact. Despite being, supposedly, founded on the idea of the right of secession, the Confederacy refused to acknowledge that concept when applied to themselves. The Confederacy had many internal revolts against the government, ones that they often used military force to deal with. West Virginia is only the most notable example - other regions, like Nickajack and Winston spring to mind. Heck, eastern Tennessee petitioned the legislature to secede from the state, and the Confederacy sent troops to occupy the region and prevent any such independence movement from occurring.


39 posted on 02/18/2012 1:14:33 PM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: donmeaker
No state has a right to unilaterally leave the union.

Adolf, looks like our side has a new FRiend.

47 posted on 02/18/2012 1:38:45 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: donmeaker
Hypocrisy
60 posted on 02/18/2012 4:53:09 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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