Posted on 03/24/2012 6:47:49 AM PDT by tobyhill
I respect your experience 100%, and would listen to you based on your vastly greater experience.
I just hope the Grand Jury agrees with you about only the last 30 seconds counting.
Violation of ones civil rights, gives the feds standing, and the kids civil rights were violated.
A couple of really important points need to be made here. First, Zimmerman did not call 911, he called Sanford Police non-emergency. Because it was not an emergency, and there was not a crime in progress. Second, the operator who said "we don't need you to (follow)" was not issuing a lawful police order, as the Sanford police have affirmed. Third, we know for a fact that Zimmerman stopped following. He replied "Okay," and remained on the phone for almost two more minutes, during which he said he no longer could see Martin, and did not know where "this kid" went.
Now, I am fairly sure that after he hung up he went down the walkway behind the houses to try to spot Martin. That is not illegal, and it also is not "pursuit." You can argue that it is poor judgment. But it is also poor judgment to circle back and confront the guy you think is following you.
We know from what Martin's girlfriend has said that it was Martin who initiated the conversation with Zimmerman, not the other way around. Zimmerman then asked Martin why he was there - and, contrary to your other statement, he was perfectly within his rights to ask that question. He wasn't pursuing or detaining anybody.
Martin also had a right not to answer - a right he clearly exercised, and so, at that point, it somehow came to blows. It is a truly tragic shame that they didn't both just explain to each other who they were and why they were there.
But I am getting really tired of the characterization of Zimmerman as some kind of aggressive vigilante when we actually know enough about his "state of mind" and his actions to suggest that this just isn't so.
If he wanted a confrontation, then why didn't he just roll down his window and confront Martin when he first saw him? When Martin hurried away, why didn't he yell out "come back here, you punk!"? Why, when the operator said "we don't need you to (follow)" did he stop following? Why, when the operator asked for his address, did he nervously decline to give it, because he didn't know where "this kid" was, and was afraid he'd be overheard?
From all I have read, neither Martin nor Zimmerman sound like they were bad guys, and it is a terrible, terrible human tragedy that one of them is dead due to circumstances they both brought about taking actions that I could very easily envision myself taking.
He might. But I have a hunch that once the facts come out he will be no billed.
I am just afraid that this has gone so far down the political path that if the State Attorney/Grand Jury doesn’t charge him, the Feds will bring a civil case. I just can’t see this ending any other way.
Exactly my thoughts. The claim that Martin was only defending himself against the overzealous pursuit of Zimmerman goes out the window if he turned around and pursued Zimmerman as Zimmerman returned to his truck. “Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman’s pursuit” doesn’t play.
He was arrested but both were dropped, and in fact had filed a counter charge against girlfriend. How you can infer smacking his girlfriend around with that is pretty lame, you can get a DV or an assault charge for spitting on someone.
If only the media and the race pimps were held accountable for their damnable race baiting. I can not recall a case when the national or local media stepped up and said “We were wrong.” They simply find a new story and the public soon forgets. At least with Doctors and some other professions they can be held accountable for wrong decisions, via malpractice lawsuits.
You’re imagining stuff.
Of course, we all are at this point, but your scenario is more fanciful than most.
BULL, the kid had as much right to stand his ground as did his stalker, even more so, since he was talking to his girl friend and said he was being stalked. But I understand how people with the minority opinion get excited. And your opinion is the minority. When the writer, of the stand your ground law, takes the stand and says “his law it did not apply to zimmerman”, the little 28 year dead beat is cooked goose.
"Why are you following me?"
"Look, buddy, I don't want any trouble. I'm George and I'm with the neighborhood watch. I actually already called the cops. Do you live around here?"
"Man, you scared the crap out of me. I'm Taryvon. I'm visiting my dad in that house across the street."
Just a sad, sad event. That's why the story is so compelling, and why the political and racist agitation surrounding it is even more tragic.
That's the same conclusion I've come to about this event, pending any profoundly significant evidence to the contrary being revealed.
Now I have to sign off and get back to life!
At this point, facts no longer matter.
Well, as I laid out in my earlier post, I think it is a mischaracterization to say Zimmerman was in “pursuit.” And I think it’s important to make that clear, for just the reasons you state.
I agree he showed some poor judgment, but from all the available information, I don’t think he did anything really all that unreasonable. And I think, at the risk of sounding like I’m “blaming the victim,” that Martin also displayed poor judgment in choosing to confront Zimmerman instead of just going home.
And why, why, why, once they were face to face, didn’t they both just explain who they were and why they were there?
Agreed. Off to do Saturday chores myself...
Trayvor Martin’s father heard the 911 call and said the voice screaming for help was not his son’s voice.
Sadly, I agree with this conclusion also. In today's climate, Bernhard Goetz would be sitting on death row.
The reason Stand Your Ground doesn't apply is because Zimmerman was pinned to the ground. It can reasonably be said that he was unable to retreat. So, the statute that says he has no duty to retreat even if he could is irrelevant to this case.
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