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1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed (How's that "Hope and Change" thing working out?)
google ^ | 4/23/2012 | HOPE YEN, Associated Press

Posted on 04/23/2012 3:37:01 AM PDT by tobyhill

The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.

A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example — and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans.

An analysis of government data conducted for The Associated Press lays bare the highly uneven prospects for holders of bachelor's degrees.

Opportunities for college graduates vary widely.

While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. Median wages for those with bachelor's degrees are down from 2000, hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.

(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bhoeconomy; generationy; youthvote

1 posted on 04/23/2012 3:37:03 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

God forbid they have to start at entry level even with a piece of paper. Sheesh everyone wants 60K a year today when they are worth about 30K a year with Bachelor’s and zero experience. 30K is what they should be paid for a first job.


2 posted on 04/23/2012 3:47:45 AM PDT by napscoordinator (VOTE FOR NEWT!!!!)
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To: tobyhill
hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides,

Who wrote this garbage? Midlevel jobs...such as bank tellers? The average bank teller in this area makes barely over minimum wage!

Hourly wage bank tellers vs. CHHA pay rate

3 posted on 04/23/2012 3:48:13 AM PDT by EBH (God Humbles Nations, Leaders, and Peoples before He uses them for His Purpose)
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To: napscoordinator
God forbid they have to start at entry level even with a piece of paper. Sheesh everyone wants 60K a year today when they are worth about 30K a year with Bachelor’s and zero experience. 30K is what they should be paid for a first job.

Depends, an entry level Engineering job should pay at least 50K to start. Liberal arts majors should work for anything they can get.

4 posted on 04/23/2012 3:50:25 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: tobyhill

Your link has nothing to do with Google.

It is an AP site and an AP article. I have seen you post like this before. Why?


5 posted on 04/23/2012 3:56:30 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: central_va

Depends, an entry level Engineering job should pay at least 50K to start. Liberal arts majors should work for anything they can get.

I can agree with that. But 50 thousand would be considered an “entry level” job for Engineers until they prove themselves a few years and ultimately make 100K. The point is that this story seems to say that everyone should begin at the “high” wage right away or at least the graduates think that way.


6 posted on 04/23/2012 3:57:14 AM PDT by napscoordinator (VOTE FOR NEWT!!!!)
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To: tobyhill

Wellllll...................
They voted for it, didn’t they?


7 posted on 04/23/2012 4:01:21 AM PDT by Flintlock (Picture ID for ALL voting. Let our dead rest in peace.)
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To: Texas Fossil
AP sells articles, they don't publish them on their own site. When the link's auto-fill on FR pops up it shows the host of the article which in this case is Google
8 posted on 04/23/2012 4:02:03 AM PDT by tobyhill (Fight Fire With Fire)
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To: napscoordinator

Reality. Engineers finish and get real-paying jobs. Anything less than an engineer....get sub-pay. You could get the same sub-pay with a community college degree (two-year associates degree). The sooner that people come to realize that colleges have created all of these worthless and bogus degrees....the better off we’d all be.


9 posted on 04/23/2012 4:04:00 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: tobyhill

If republicans were smart they would target this group. Go to the universities in flyover country where 50,000 plus middle America kids pack those football games in the fall. Remind them that May 2012 is the fourth graduating class under obama to graduate to no jobs.


10 posted on 04/23/2012 4:08:32 AM PDT by jersey117
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To: tobyhill
Now that I've gotten past excerpt I'll point something out and leave it for those smarter FReepers than I to ponder.

Necessity is the mother of invention...

While all these ‘college graduates’ lament not finding jobs, America has always been the place to ‘make money.’ Really, isn't that what we're discussing?

Whenever there has been a hard-pressed downturn in the economy, fantastic things have come forward from obscure Americans. Some with degrees, some without, and some from high-school dropouts.

Do we have the appropriate economic climate and culture for that today?

What these young people are lamenting is the same thing we've heard for decades regarding degrees. This really is not anything new. Education can only get you so far and as these kids are learning, it cannot even get you in the door when you must compete with experienced folks out of work too.

Can America's young people ‘dream big’ or is there so many roadblocks and disincentives that the American dream is over?

11 posted on 04/23/2012 4:10:24 AM PDT by EBH (God Humbles Nations, Leaders, and Peoples before He uses them for His Purpose)
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To: tobyhill
"While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. "

"I don't even know what I'm looking for," says Michael Bledsoe, who described months of fruitless job searches as he served customers at a Seattle coffeehouse. The 23-year-old graduated in 2010 with a creative writing degree.

"Initially hopeful that his college education would create opportunities, Bledsoe languished for three months before finally taking a job as a barista, a position he has held for the last two years. In the beginning he sent three or four resumes day."

My daughter landed her "dream job" about a year and a half ago, and her starting salary was at about the 85th percentile for personal income in the US. In fact, she began the job a few months before she actually received her master's degree. She definitely knew what she was looking for, and homed in on it like a heat-seeking missile. If she had told potential employers she didn't know what she was looking for, I imagine most would have concluded she was completely nuts. Don't colleges have counseling centers any more? For $50k in annual college tuition, that's not an unreasonable expectation. It's not an employer's job to figure out what someone wants to do with his life.

12 posted on 04/23/2012 4:10:41 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: napscoordinator

Those entry level jobs mentioned are something one does during college; there is nothing wrong with aspiring to a better position after doing the four years. These recent graduates are going to hurt Obama; I watched them do it to Bush’s father in 1992 (one year after he had REAL popularity). The recent graduates from the last election are going to hurt him, too.


13 posted on 04/23/2012 4:11:05 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: tobyhill

No Sympathy Here,They voted for Hopey Changey,now deal with it with the Rest of Us. Hey vote for Him Again so he Can Finish the Job!


14 posted on 04/23/2012 4:11:29 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: EBH

“The average bank teller in this area makes barely over minimum wage!”

You’re right; in my area many of the middle-aged American women that probably did OK due to years on the job, experience, etc. have been replaced by younger diversity tokens who have little job knowledge and limited command of English. I was in one local bank branch where the manager was unintelligible...


15 posted on 04/23/2012 4:14:08 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

Unfortunately, the ‘recent grads’ want obama to pay their college debt off,,,


16 posted on 04/23/2012 4:17:42 AM PDT by CharlotteVRWC
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To: CharlotteVRWC

True, they do, but if they believe that they should speak to all of the people awaiting modifications on their mortgages. The help is coming, at the speed of molasses.


17 posted on 04/23/2012 4:20:54 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: tobyhill

The truly pitiful aspect the lack of abilityt to discharge their educational debt in bankruptcy.

Whoever sold them “ an education” under those terms is part of the problem. These students are fighting back.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/11/38921.htm


18 posted on 04/23/2012 4:26:11 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: tobyhill
How's That Hope and Change Working Out For You?
19 posted on 04/23/2012 4:42:09 AM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: tobyhill

OK, Thanks.


20 posted on 04/23/2012 4:44:40 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: tobyhill

McDonalds Essay

Go to work for McDonalds and consider it as going to school. Rather than come up with a bunch of bucks for tuition, Get a job at MD and pay extreme attention to what is taking place. Get paid for your efforts in the process. Set a limit. Go one year or maybe a year and a half. Be dedicated to the task the same as if you were paying thousands of dollars at a college.

The concept involves looking at McDonalds as an industrial microcosm . Mc Donalds is very much like a factory with hundreds of employees except smaller. MD also has a retail arm in addition to the manufacturing arm. To grasp how things are done in the manufacturing and business world, MD is small enough to observe all the operations that can be studied in detail and the study extrapolated to the world. MD is chosen because it is truly a global company and one if not the very best successful business to be studied.

The big question, the goal of the going to MD as school, is to discover in detail what is MD? Why does it exist?
As a study aid, a laptop computer would be beneficial. The computer can be used to keep notes and to make and record lists. Homework is making notes and expanding the lists, making entries into the big list of things learned and things to be explored further

Most McDonalds employees don’t flip burgers, they are in sales. At McDonalds if you apply your self and study what is happening you can develop a good understanding of sales and customer service. The front line, the people on the counter, have an opportunity to meet and greet a wide cross section of customers, of people. The very act of asking” how can I help you” engages the customer in a business transaction. The customers can be observed and then studied in the abstract. Make a list. What kinds of customers, what do they want, what do they need, how does MD meet their wants and needs, what wants and needs are not met, should every want and need be met?

If you clean up, study the various chemicals and cleaners. Read the MSDS documents and learn a lot about OSHA, chemicals and government regulation. Learn what they do and why they do it. Learn why someone made and effort to obtain each of the specific cleaning products. Understand the process and how it relates to government regulations. Learn why MD wants the task not only performed but the reason for doing it. Learn if there is and external requirement such as a local or federal regulation. Learn about the regulation and why it exists. Learn if MD made the rule and how the rule makes the product better.

Somewhere there are posters. The posters are mandated by the government and outline the various employment laws. The posters are the basis for the interaction of business and government. They might seem overly complex and quite boring but they are a major part of the lesson. Study the posters and develop a total understanding of what they mean. Learn how the government and business interact and why.
Hang out with the manager and study and learn the flow of goods. Learn the basics of purchasing. study the inventory flow and learn how inventory management keeps the company rolling.

A typical Mc Donalds store is a mega industry on a micro scale They obtain raw materials hire labor and manufacture a product to very tight specifications. The process is typical of all manufacturing, only the product, the manufacturing equipment and size are different.

The principles of how raw materials are obtained, moved around, stored, and used apply to all business and manufacturing. A thorough understanding of the various tasks and processes involved will be useful elsewhere. The lessons can be expanded to a basic understanding of product quality and quality control The business and all the jobs there are absolutely dependent on the quality of the product.
Tight specifications, what are the specifications, where did they come from, why have the specifications, how are they met, who enforces the specifications and assures consistent quality? These are all valuable lessons to be learned in the micro factory. The answers can be learned by paying attention and carefully watching what is actually happening throughout the place..

The subject of raw materials is very important area of study. One of the lists or perhaps several of the lists would be of various raw materials or raw material categories. . Just what and how many raw materials is required to keep the place running? A list describing the material, where it comes from and exactly how the material is used can provide extremely valuable insights.

Then there is the matter of human resources. A one year study of the flow of people in and out and retained could result in a master’s degree paper on proper use and abuse of labor resources.

The concept of a crew, a team (for further development)

Then there is cash. A study of cash management could provide a detailed insight into cash, banking and the importance of plastic payments to a small business.

The MD school you choose might be near home or across town but it is merely one of many. A whole nother different course of study is what happens at and to MD outside the local operation? How does your store relate to a regional and national and global network of stores.

Back to the big question. Why does your school exist? Why do we have Md’s. The answer to that question applies to each and every business and manufacturing operation in the country. The answer is to make the owners a profit. Each and every item on all the various lists that will be developed in the school process is there to assure a profit. Proving that statement is the goal of the school and learning the reasons is the way the proof is obtained

It is all there for free. as a matter of fact one can get paid while at this school. All it takes is a proper frame of mind and a desire. Everything there is something to be learned

An interviewer will be blown out of her shoes when the lessons set out and learned are recounted in extreme detail.

I’m going to save this and continue to expand for the next time the issue is raised.


21 posted on 04/23/2012 4:53:22 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: tobyhill

I wonder how many of these umemployed graduates voted for Obama and who they will support this time around.


22 posted on 04/23/2012 5:07:55 AM PDT by monocle
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To: tobyhill

-—Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.-—

Nothing wrong with these jobs, but a nation of retirees and home health aides is a dying nation.

We have to get the govt boot off the neck of the private sector yesterday.


23 posted on 04/23/2012 5:08:48 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: EBH

-—The average bank teller in this area makes barely over minimum wage!-—

They dress up though.


24 posted on 04/23/2012 5:11:03 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: bert

Excellent analysis Bert.

I saved that for review and sharing. Well done.


25 posted on 04/23/2012 5:18:54 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Sooth2222; tobyhill

what is a ‘creative writing degree; — do you need a degree to be able to write? How many successful fiction (or even non-fiction) authors of today have these “degrees”?


26 posted on 04/23/2012 5:29:48 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: FReepers
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27 posted on 04/23/2012 5:33:48 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons)
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To: tobyhill
"I thought that me having a biology degree was a gold ticket for me getting into places, but every other job wants you to have previous history in the field,"

The kid who made this statement obviously never learned to speak English correctly! No wonder he, and so many like him, can't find jobs. This is the quality of college graduates today.

I saw this coming over 25 years ago when I ran a resume service business. Every spring the upcoming college grads would come in for help with their resumes. They could not spell, couldn't write a logical sentence, had no idea how to structure a cover letter (including the mechanics of where to put the date, address, etc.), had no actual working experience, and spoke as though they were in grade school. Yet they wanted high paying jobs, would not settle for entry-level positions, and were not a bit hesitant to go back home to live with mommy and daddy and be supported while waiting for that "perfect position" that college advisers had promised would be there when they graduated.

Now our country is glutted with so many more college grads, who were admitted to college because of "quota" requirements, and, after four years, have ended up with no viable skills. We have colleges to blame for our culture of young people who are only well-qualified to "Occupy" America - and not build or better it.

The overly hyped promotion of college...as the only key to a better future...has been the downfall of our country. Trade schools, or places where students could earn an education in two years and gain worthwhile, marketable skills...and be productive...have, for too many years, been considered less "acceptable." Parents have wanted to brag about where their child was attending school, and kids have been excited about the freedom to live away from home and party away from their parents' watchful eyes, more than they have been encouraged to become independent. So every kid, whether they were good students or not, were enrolled and accepted at four year schools - financed mainly on student loans, (or given sports scholarships to attend) rather than work and save money for school, or work part-time while in college, or go to a trade school and be done in 18 to 24 months. The idea of spending a fun four years and "finding oneself" at a distant campus was promoted to high schoolers more than the idea of being focused and becoming self-sufficient in two years.

In college these students have been coddled and pampered while they have lived in isolation from the real world. Over the years, by offering easy subjects and "degrees" in fields that have left graduates unprepared for hard work, and with blown up ideas about their own worth, colleges have produced the most self-serving, self-focused, inept group of graduates that we see rampant today. Hence, the culture of the #Occupiers was born and nourished. And we are surprised?

28 posted on 04/23/2012 5:38:12 AM PDT by CitizenM (Obama studied our Constution out of hate for America, not out of love for our laws.)
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To: bert

Bookmarking your excellent post.


29 posted on 04/23/2012 5:40:23 AM PDT by mplsconservative (Impeach Obama Now!)
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To: tobyhill
By some studies, up to 95 percent of positions lost during the economic recovery occurred in middle-income occupations such as bank tellers, the type of job not expected to return in a more high-tech age.

I guess the writer got the brilliant bank teller example from Obama. ATMs have been around since the 1970s, so whatever might be happening to bank teller jobs doesn't have much to to with any 'more high-tech age'. The constant mergers and acquisitions might be impacting all sorts of jobs in banks.

The article scratches the surface on many current circumstances faced by college graduates, but doesn't seem to explain very much.

30 posted on 04/23/2012 5:47:43 AM PDT by Will88
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To: bert
An interviewer will be blown out of her shoes when the lessons set out and learned are recounted in extreme detail.

Or any job if approached in the manner that you describe.

It would be advantageous to anyone that would show the same kind of individual enterprise and apply it to their job.

31 posted on 04/23/2012 5:47:43 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: tobyhill
With degrees in courses like “GAY AND LESBIAN HISPANIC STUDIES” it's no wonder ,,,, now you have to know there's a great demand for expertise in this area . The yutes of America and their paying parents are being hustled by colleges and universities when they offer degrees in these useless subjects ,,, yet there are plenty of suckers out there taking the bait .
32 posted on 04/23/2012 6:06:57 AM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: tobyhill

A general comment: I remember reading articles in the late ‘60s about how the demand for college graduates by businesses was so great that many corporations were hiring liberal arts majors and training them to do jobs within their firms. This was, of course, before the post-Vietnam recessionary period.

I think the trends that have produced the job market now faced by recent college graduates have been building since the 1960s, and trying to explain it based on more recent economic events won’t work. Our failure to produce our own energy, trade policies, automation, and large scale legal and illegal immigration, and other factors have come together to create excess workers at many job skill levels and that won’t change for a good number of years, or at all unless government policies change in many areas.


33 posted on 04/23/2012 6:17:13 AM PDT by Will88
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Doctorate in Social Justice at UMass/Amherst!


34 posted on 04/23/2012 6:38:01 AM PDT by pabianice (ame with)
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To: napscoordinator
God forbid they have to start at entry level even with a piece of paper. Sheesh everyone wants 60K a year today when they are worth about 30K a year with Bachelor’s and zero experience. 30K is what they should be paid for a first job.

My first job out of school paid $17,500 and I was damned happy to get it. Was in a very remote rural community where my rent was only $250 a month.
35 posted on 04/23/2012 6:54:21 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: tobyhill

B.S Creative Writing = Barista

Sounds about right.


36 posted on 04/23/2012 9:36:03 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: pepsionice

“You could get the same sub-pay with a community college degree (two-year associates degree)”

Actually, with the right 2-year degree, like diesel mechanic, HVAC, etc., you’re going to very quickly be making more than any B.S. in BS if you’re on-the-ball at all.


37 posted on 04/23/2012 9:39:06 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: kearnyirish2
A fun quote from the article:

David Neumark, an economist at the University of California-Irvine, said a bachelor's degree can have benefits that aren't fully reflected in the government's labor data. He said even for lower-skilled jobs such as waitress or cashier, employers tend to value bachelor's degree-holders more highly than high-school graduates, paying them more for the same work and offering promotions.

Ah. Brings back memories of the cabbie I met in Madison, Wisc who had a Ph.D. in Medieval Philosophy.

38 posted on 04/23/2012 9:52:52 AM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: bert
... An interviewer will be blown out of her shoes when the lessons set out and learned are recounted in extreme detail.

A great reply and food for thought (no pun intended) in analyzing the world around me in general.

40 posted on 04/23/2012 5:58:04 PM PDT by VORTAC (Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important - T.S. Eliot)
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To: VanShuyten

Some of those degrees were earned by people who merely wanted a job the required any degree (military officer, policeman). Now that those jobs have dried up in our area, a lot of criminal justice degrees are wondering what they’ll do now...


41 posted on 04/23/2012 8:53:06 PM PDT by kearnyirish2
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