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Campbell mayor seeks probe of gun discharges
vindy.com ^ | 2 May 2012 | Jeanne Starmack

Posted on 05/01/2012 9:51:00 PM PDT by smokingfrog

Mayor Bill VanSuch has asked the Campbell Police Department to investigate how a handgun discharged in the police chief’s office.

The incident happened April 17 as Chief Gus Sarigianopoulos was checking the gun to see if it was loaded.

Van Such said he intended to ask a detective-sergeant to investigate, and he is asking the chief to cooperate.

In a letter to VanSuch dated Thursday, Sarigianopoulos said he was attempting to clear the gun, which was pointed down toward the floor, when it discharged.

The police department had recently acquired the Vietnam-era handgun from state-government surplus.

The gun, one of three the department acquired about six weeks ago, is a single-action Colt 1911 .45-caliber semiautomatic, said Officer Dave Smith, a firearms instructor for the department.

Smith said that though it is an older gun, it is still a good model that could be used an officer’s service gun.

He also said the department can benefit from training with the single- action guns, because its officers are more familiar with the double-action Glocks they use now.

“It benefits the department because if they come across one on the streets, they know how to clear it,” he said.

The department was also asked in October to account for an accidental discharge while the chief and other officers were on a call.

(Excerpt) Read more at vindy.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; negligentdischarge; wearetheonlyones

1 posted on 05/01/2012 9:51:04 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog
"how a handgun discharged in the police chief’s office"

Uh, someone hit the trigger or someone dropped it and it went off (assuming no dogs present).

2 posted on 05/01/2012 9:55:36 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Gotta be the ole finger on the trigger thing. I have 1911’s and Glocks and I treat them all the same.


3 posted on 05/01/2012 10:00:37 PM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: Paladin2

I doubt very seriously that you could make a 1911 “go off” by dropping it.

More likely the idjit assumed that once he ejected the magazine the gun was unloaded.


4 posted on 05/01/2012 10:01:18 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1197 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: smokingfrog

I’m guessing he thought he pulled out the magazine 1st and then cleared the weapon. Seeing a round flying to his right he assumed the weapon was cleared and pulled the trigger, letting the hammer strike and didn’t realize he hadn’t pulled out the magazine.

It happens and is why I turn the gun over to see the magazine is indeed not in the gun, then I clear the gun, turn it over again, pull the slide back again, point it at the floor to visually be certain the gun is totally clear and then I pull the trigger or gently let it down.

On my Kimbers the damn spring is strong I just pull the trigger. On all my other arms I have no problem gently letting the hammer come down.

Stuff happens.


5 posted on 05/01/2012 10:03:33 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Paladin2

yeah, the ole dropped gun thing is more of a myth than reality. Even for that era of a 1911.

It’s possible but not probable.


6 posted on 05/01/2012 10:04:42 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: null and void

I think it was the other way around and he didn’t take out the magazine, pulled the slide back and seeing a round eject thought the thing was cleared.

Saw my Mom’s husband do just that at the range once.

Lesson learned and never, ever forgot.

You like Chinese Food? I have a friend who has a restaurant and I’d like to take you.

It’s in Willow Glen. It’s called Sweet Mango and the owner is a real nice gal. She worked at the Taiwan for years and then opened this place with her husband two years ago.


7 posted on 05/01/2012 10:07:51 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: smokingfrog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=948-2Vzgi3w

He did his first desk pop!


8 posted on 05/01/2012 10:17:54 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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To: smokingfrog

Gee, Bonehead doesn’t know how to operate the most iconic gun of the last 101 years?


9 posted on 05/01/2012 10:30:37 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Mases Could Be Farts)
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To: null and void
I doubt very seriously that you could make a 1911 “go off” by dropping it.

It can, with one in the pipe and the hammer down.

10 posted on 05/01/2012 10:32:39 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Mases Could Be Farts)
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To: Vendome
Sometime you drop the magazine , rack the slide, and the extractor fails to pick up the chambered round. Pull trigger, go boooooom.

Looking down the chamber after removing the mag helps.

11 posted on 05/01/2012 10:36:15 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: smokingfrog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxWWJaTEdD0


12 posted on 05/01/2012 10:42:13 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: mylife

Obviously an outdated design.

*ducking*


13 posted on 05/01/2012 10:42:25 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

It was designed to be “cocked and locked”
There is no safety that blocks the hammer from the firing pin with one in the pipe and the hammer down.
The grip safety disables the trigger mechanism

Its apparent the gun wasn’t dropped on the hammer, because the bullet ended up in the floor.


14 posted on 05/01/2012 10:48:51 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Mases Could Be Farts)
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To: going hot

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: How many counts in that movement you just
executed?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, 4 counts, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Whats the idea of looking down in the
chamber?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, that is to guarantee that the private is not
giving the inspecting officer a loaded weapon, sir!


15 posted on 05/01/2012 11:10:14 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: mylife

Since the gun was purchased at a surplus sale, they may have wrongly ASSumed that someone checked to see that it was unloaded before putting it up for sale?


16 posted on 05/01/2012 11:11:56 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: ltc8k6

That’s a fact, jack!


17 posted on 05/01/2012 11:16:02 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: smokingfrog

A chambered round and an itchy trigger finger will get you every time.


18 posted on 05/01/2012 11:36:00 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: going hot

I rack the slide three times, look down the chamber, look in the magazine well, then let the hammer down easy.

Not very John Wayne, I guess.


19 posted on 05/02/2012 12:54:19 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: smokingfrog

It’s happened before.


20 posted on 05/02/2012 2:37:56 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Mases Could Be Farts)
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To: smokingfrog
The police department had recently acquired the Vietnam-era handgun from state-government surplus.

I'll bet there's a citizen who's been trying to get that gun back for years.

21 posted on 05/02/2012 2:58:58 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks like Right-Wing extremism.)
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To: Vendome
, pulled the slide back and seeing a round eject thought the thing was cleared.

That's a very common mistake, pull the slide back, check the chamber and see its empty, release the slide (now it just became loaded) then pull the magazine.

Happened to me once at home when I was showing a handgun to a friend. Fortunately my friend did what he was supposed to do, pull the slide, recheck the chamber and lo and behold, there's a cartridge in there. Scared the living crap out of me, and yes, that was a learning experience....... I still cringe when I think about it.

22 posted on 05/02/2012 3:18:35 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
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To: smokingfrog

OK, let me be the first to say... WTF does the mayor need an invesitgation for? The chief screwed up. I’ll bet that won’t happen again. End of story.

The mayor just wants to get reelected, and starting an investigation over this just panders to the gun grabbers who are probably outraged that a policeman used and fired a gun, even if by accident.


23 posted on 05/02/2012 3:48:24 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Hot Tabasco

I always check a firearm someone has “cleared” in my presense. Thanks for reminding me why I do it.


24 posted on 05/02/2012 3:57:47 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: umgud

The best description on FR was that the booger hooker was on the bang switch. EOR, Mayor.


25 posted on 05/02/2012 4:50:11 AM PDT by healy61
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To: healy61

At least it was pointed at the floor.


26 posted on 05/02/2012 4:54:24 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: smokingfrog
"“It benefits the department because if they come across one on the streets, they know how to clear it,” he said."

INSTRUCTIONS: "To clear weapon, fire chambered round; repeat until empty."

27 posted on 05/02/2012 6:33:08 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: mylife
It can, with one in the pipe and the hammer down.

You will be hard pressed to do so without installing miss fitted parts. When the hammer is down and resting on the firing pin, the firing pin does not rest on the primer of a chambered round as it is too short to protrude past the breech face. Further, the firing pin is held to the rear, away from the primer by a spring. Unless the hammer strikes the firing pin with enough energy to overcome the spring and inertia, the pistol will not fire. Such energy can not be developed when the hammer is at rest on the firing pin stop. In short, dropping won't discharge the 1911 pistol when the hammer is down.

28 posted on 05/02/2012 6:33:50 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Hot Tabasco; All
Happened to me once at home when I was showing a handgun to a friend. Fortunately my friend did what he was supposed to do, pull the slide, recheck the chamber and lo and behold, there's a cartridge in there. Scared the living crap out of me, and yes, that was a learning experience....... I still cringe when I think about it.

That's a he*lluva way to handle any automatic when showing it to a friend, handing it back and forth with the slide closed!!!

If this is your habit, you ought to cringe. Your "friend" should never have to pull the slide to examine its safe condition or you are not a friend. The piece should be cleared of any magazine or ammo in the barrel, slide locked open, inspected by you, and only then handed to him for his/her inspection and responsibility for safe handling.

For those who might not already know, here is the procedure. With the piece always pointed in a safe direction, and never placing your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot it; and assuming a priori it is loaded; then:

(1) Eject the magazine, placing it out of the way.

(2) Holding the piece in the right hand, right thumb on the slide catch, rack the slide back and engage the slide catch to keep the slide securely open when the left hand is removed from the slide.

(3) Through the ejection port, examine the rear of the barrel to insure there is no round still lodged in the barrel and to simultaneously doublecheck the magazine channel to see that it is clear.

(4) With the slide securely open, hand the piece to the other person, muzzle pointed somewhere between horizontal and skyward.

(5) The other person receives the piece, examines the open chamber again to ensure there is no magazine in the piece and no round lodged in the barrel.

(6) The person receiving the piece may then close the slide by holding the piece in the right hand; restraining the slide with the left hand to back the slide off the slide catch thus disengaging it; then easing the slide back into battery (the full closed position), such that it does not slam shut when the slide catch is disengaged.

(7) The hammer may then be lowered, using the left hand to gently restrain the hammer motion to avid damaging the firing pin or the pin spring by keeping the hammer from snapping.

(8) Engage the mechanical safety

(9) Replace the magazine

(10) Examine or manipulate the piece with continuing assumption that the piece is loaded and ready to fire.

Good gun manners and safe handling protocol requires that if the piece is to be handed back to the first person, that this whole process be again repeated in every detail.

The piece has been prepared for safe transfer, safely transferred to the other person, examined for absence of any ammunition, returned to carry state, and fit for further manipulation or use.

A very similar procedure would be used in the handling of revolvers, single shot pistols, or long guns.

Never rely on a safety in handing guns around!

(Extra detail: If this is happening at a firing range, and if someone is to go down range, then prepare the piece by going through steps (1) through (3) above, lay the piece down on the bench, and step full away from the firing line. If there are several people using the range, the range officer will inspect all uncased firearms that they are cleared before anyone is permitted downrange. No uncasing or handling of uncased firearms at all while anyone is downrange.)

Furthermore, in handling a weapon the first time you own it, ALWAYS confirm that the barrel is open -- that there is no dud bullet lodged partway down the barrel (especially for guns not known to have been examined by a gunsmith)!!!

Hope this is taken as a positive, constructive, safe, and helpful critique.

Respectfully but not regretfully --

29 posted on 05/02/2012 7:15:53 AM PDT by imardmd1 (The only sane advice: Assume nothing!.)
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To: Dogbert41

LOL, I thought of the same thing!


30 posted on 05/02/2012 7:50:29 AM PDT by AirForceBrat23
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To: dsc

Beats the hell out of a .45 cal hole in the metatarsals.


31 posted on 05/02/2012 7:56:40 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Alas Babylon!
OK, let me be the first to say... WTF does the mayor need an invesitgation for?

Isn't it a common policy for any on-duty discharge of an officer's gun will be investtigated (however much needed) and a report submitted? This is going to be fun for the Chief, going forward, eh? Just procedure, probably

32 posted on 05/02/2012 8:11:36 AM PDT by imardmd1 (The only sane advice: Assume nothing!.)
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To: Vendome
I'm always up for food!
33 posted on 05/02/2012 9:16:34 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1198 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: going hot

That’s the assumption under which I am working. Never had a hole in the metatarsals, but my calculations have it way down on the pleasure scale.


34 posted on 05/02/2012 11:40:13 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Lion Den Dan

What you say is correct, but it is indeed possible.


35 posted on 05/02/2012 4:24:49 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Mases Could Be Farts)
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