Skip to comments.Why You Donít Believe in Gun Control
Posted on 05/28/2012 7:17:00 AM PDT by marktwain
Tina Dupuy is mighty sure of herself and, oddly enough (since I have never met the woman), awfully sure of me too. She explains in her piece Why you believe in gun control that we bitter clingers are actually in favor of gun control were just too pig-ignorant to realize it. If you ask the typical hyper-political gun owner (and I have at Thanksgiving dinner), why its important to own a gun, theyll bark about the Constitution. Yes, the Second Amendment: The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed! Tina has a little problem with logic the Second Amendment isnt why its important to own a gun, the Second Amendment is what protects our pre-existing, God-given, natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, and civil right to own and carry the weapon of our choice . . .
But the irrelevancies and fallacies have only just begun.
This of course is the slogan the National Rifle Association adopted in the 1970s. It was then that owning a gun became an absolute right endowed by God and the Constitution. A blessing passed down by our forefathers to obliterate game and protect our property. The NRA was founded in 1870 and for its first hundred years it was for gun control and didnt mention the Second Amendment as their cause.
First, the N.R.A. doesnt really have an official slogan that I am aware of; but Im more of a Gun Owners of America guy so I could be wrong.
Secondly, owning a gun (or more generally owning effective self-defense tools) didnt magically appear in the 70s, it has been a G-d-given right since the first person picked up a big stick to fight off a saber-toothed tiger.
Tench Coxe stated back in 1788, Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. And whats a birthright if not a right you have merely by virtue of being born?
Third, as I pointed out in this piece, the Constitution doesnt endow anyone with any rights. The First and Fourth Amendments are probably the clearest examples:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech etc.
You can plainly see that the free exercise of religion and the freedom of speech are all presumed to pre-exist. If people did not already have these rights, then there would be no need to prohibit Congress from infringing them.
Fourth not to get too nit-picky hunters in this country do not obliterate game but rather use hunting as a tool to manage the herds, leashes, gangs, flocks, gaggles and teams of beast and bird for health and habitat protection. Not to mention putting meat on the table.
Fifth, arms do more than protect property, they also protect lives. In fact, as I showed in this piece, more than 25,000 lives a year are saved by DGUs which is more than twice the number that are lost to CGUs.
Sixth, the NRA was not formed to promote gun control, it was formed by disgruntled Union generals who had been shocked by the execrable marksmanship displayed by Northern troops.
Seventh, (amazing how many errors she packs into one little paragraph, eh?) the NRA didnt worry about protecting the Second Amendment for the first hundred years or so of its existence because the Brady Campaign, Illegal Mayors Against All Illegal Guns, Million Murdering Mothers Mom March, Coalition to Stop Gun Ownership Violence, Violence Policy Center et al. were not working feverishly to limit guns and discourage gun ownership.
Likewise it wasnt until 1968 that the Gun Control Act of 68 was enacted; and it was about that same time that governments big and small started blaming guns for crime.
Adam Winkler points out in his delicious book, Gun Fight, what we call the Wild West had some of the strictest gun control laws weve seen as a nation. The shoot-out at the OK Corral took place, after all, because Wyatt Earp was trying to disarm the outlaw cowboys in accordance with a Tombstone ordinance. The KKK was among other things, a gun control organization. They were trying to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed slaves but still gun control.
While I havent had the pleasure of sampling the deliciousness that is Mr. Winklers book, I imagine anything can be made tasty by adding butter, garlic and wine. However, Adam and Tina are both correct that parts of the Wild West did indeed have extremely strict gun control laws. But given that the WW has become synonymous with rampant crime, murder and mayhem Im not sure that is a point in Tinas favor.
Similarly, despite what Tina might think, I dont find it a point in favor of gun control that the KKK (with their legislative and law enforcement allies) used these sorts of laws to keep blacks terrorized and in their place.
But its time for another demonstration of abysmal ignorance:
The part of the Second Amendment omitted from the NRAs slogan is: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State Yes, well regulated its in the Constitution!
It is, indeed, in the Constitution but what did the term well regulated mean to the Founders? According to GunCite.com, quoting the Oxford English Dictionary:
b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.
1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.
And whats that second bit: a properly functioning militia is necessary to maintain our security. So, in fact, when folks like Tina try to limit military style arms, they are actually undermining our security.Theres a word for that sort of thing. *cough* Treason! *cough* [Ed: welcome to the DHS watch list Bruce.]
Now I know Im going out on a bit of a limb heretreason is, after all, explicitly defined in the Constitution (the only crime to be so distinguished):
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Id argue that working to undermine a fundamental right which is declared as being necessary to the security of a free State does indeed constitute giving aid to our enemies.
Ooh! Time for a new bogeyman:
Now, to some, guns are as sacred as Scripture. If you ask, again, this typical hyper-political gun owner why they need to stockpile assault rifles, you will get an answer much like Pat Flynns, a recent candidate for a Senate seat in Nebraska. Really, we have our guns to protect ourselves against the government, number one, Flynn said in a debate right before the primary. Huntings number two. But protecting us against our government is number one.
Remember, Flynn was trying to land a job in the government (he didnt win his partys nomination, by the way).
Personally I would put self-defense at number two, but thats just me. As for the horror of a candidate expressing such insurrectionist rhetoric, how about a few counter-examples:
The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. Noah Webster
This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. A. Lincoln
Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always be important. J. Kennedy
Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms . The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible. H. Humphrey
Yeah, Pat Flynn has obviously been hanging out with the wrong crowd and picked up some wacked-out ideas.
As to why one might want to stockpile assault rifles (and remember, theres a big difference between want and need) the phrase, buy it cheap and stack it deep comes to mind. Or maybe I want to have 4 or 5 of each model rifle so if one breaks I can A) grab another or 2) fix it with parts from another.
Or maybe I might have actually listened to what Senator Obama promised hed do if elected and believed him when he said he wanted to renew the Clinton AWB and make it permanent.
But Tina didnt ask why I would want multiple rifles, she asked why I would need multiple rifles. Well, see above about having spare parts, or see here about police confiscations after Katrina, or see here or here or here about what can happen when the cops withdraw from parts of L.A., leaving people on their own to protect their property (heres a hint, youre in better shape if you have five friends and five guns than if you have 10 friends and 1 gun).
The idea is that we have to be just as armed as our government in order to be safer or have more liberty (or something).
No Tina, theres no or something about it. You pretty well nailed it with the first two. The existence of a large number of privately owned gunsat least some of which are in the hands of your typical hyper-political gun ownerhas been acting as a deterrent for generations.
The problem is Tina doesnt realize that the deterrence in question is working because it is working. There are real world examples of what happens when the deterrent fails. Click here to learn the lesson of The Battle of Athens Tennessee (a.k.a. the McMinn County War). In 1946, WWII veterans in Athens took up arms to fight against local law enforcement to ensure a free and fair election.
Google The Deacons for Defense and Justice to read about the blacks who took up arms against racist violence in the South during the heyday of the civil rights movement. Indeed there are some scholars who believe that it was the very real prospect of pitched battles between corrupt local LEOs and the Deacons and their supporters which prompted the Federal Government to finally get involved.
The U.S.government has unmanned drones armed with supersonic laser-guided anti-armor Hellfire missiles, bunker busters, and nuclear weapons. Are far-right politicians saying we need civilians to have shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles for protection? Of course theyre not. They actually do want limits on ownership.
Speak for yourself, sweetie. I am all in favor of civilians having access to ManPADS, RPGs, rifle grenades, and all the other terrible implements of the soldier. For years it has been people like Tina who have fought to keep military-style weapons out of the hands of the average Joe and then mocked us for thinking you can fight the government with deer rifles.
And if you ask the most vehement gun rights advocate why gun owners shouldnt have nuclear weapons, Id bet youd get the same answer as to why we dont want every country to have the capability: Because they could get into the wrong hands.
This is whats called reductio ad absurbum: an argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd consequence. And it cuts both ways. Which is more credible: gun owners who seek backpack nukes for all or gun grabbers who see nothing wrong with gun confiscation in New Orleans.
Tina is one of those people who believe that governments have rights and powers in and of themselves rather than deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Those of us who believe that the founding documents actually mean something are aware that all the governments powers come from us, we the people, the citizens.
Speaking of fissionable material, when Tinas argument goes nuclear she reveals her view of American governance, setting-up a distinct separation between gun owner (citizen) and government. Its almost as if they are antagonists. Its the exact same antagonism, the same master/slave relationship, envisioned by our Founding Fathers. Especially when they passed the Second Amendment.
So weapons-grade plutonium should be limited. But the ever-handy semi-auto Glock pistol with a 30-round high-capacity magazine is an absolute right?
Okay, playing along with you here, sure lets limit Pu-239 (and U-235 while were at it) but no, that does not mean that you can limit magazine capacities on Glocks (or Para-Ordnances or Baby Eagles or . . .) because no matter how it loosens your bladder, a Glock is still not a WMD.
A recent gun buyback drive in Los Angeles resulted in someone turning in a rocket launcher. Comforting.
This rocket launcher sweetie? The one that says TRAINER on the side?
And no, I am not particularly comforted by the fact that A) the LAPD is pissing away money to buy worthless fiberglass tubes and B) Chief Beck is such a 4-star moron.
So were not actually talking about limited vs. unlimited. We are talking about degrees of weapon ownership.
Again, we arent talking any such thing, Tina, is. But again, even if I were to play along and agree that ManPADS and fissile materials should be off-limits to commoners, I would then have to point out your little bait-and-switch; at the beginning you said I would agree with you about gun control (and neither a rocket launcher (or an empty tube) nor a nuke qualifies as a gun) but now you are talking about degrees of weapon ownership.
But Tina find her way back to guns, though, and how they fall into the wrong hands. Swallow your beverage and buckle up cause when I read this next bit, I spit out my coffee and almost lunged out of my chair.
Guns fall into the wrong hands all the time. More guns and fewer requirements for ownership doesnt[sic] curb this. George Zimmerman was the wrong hands. Zimmerman, a Florida man now infamous for shooting an unarmed black teenager at close range after a 911 operator told him not to engage the alleged suspect and wait for police to arrive, is now being defended by said hyper-political gun owners.
First of all, as Don Kates points out here, the police have no authority to tell someone they may not observe or follow someone on a public street.
Second, Zimmerman told the operator that he had lost Martin; he later stated that he was looking for a house number so he could direct police to the scene.
Third, a 63 tall 150-pound man sitting on your chest bashing your head against the concrete may be unarmed, but it wouldnt be unreasonable for the bashee to conclude that he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm thus permitting him to lawfully use deadly force in self-defense.
Fourth, youre damned straight Im going to defend his actions.
Theres no reason a Neighborhood Watch captain should be patrolling his block with a criminal record and a pistol.
See Tina, people in this country are still considered innocent until proven guilty. Even when someone has been arrested, if theyve never been convicted of a crime you dont get to call them a criminal or say they have a criminal record.
As for no reason to be patrolling his block, whatinthehell do you call eight burglaries in the previous 14 months?
Zimmerman was a catastrophe realized. Even in the wake of new evidence about this case, the fact remains if Zimmerman didnt have a gun, 16-year-old Trayvon Martin would be alive.
And there you have it . . . the perfect summation of the antis world-view. If only there hadnt been a gun, Trayvon would be alive and well stop right there and ignore the fact that if there hadnt been a gun George Zimmerman might have been dead or a vegetable. People like Tina are all about the cost of defensive gun uses, but never the benefits.
The United States is number one in the world in civilian gun ownership. And since were not last in gun violence (were the 14th highest in deaths way higher in just injuries) its safe to assume that increasing the number of guns doesnt decrease the number of gun deaths.
Actually it isnt safe to assume anything of the sort.
The US is way ahead of the UK in firearm related homicides, but we are also way ahead of the UK in non-firearm related homicides. If guns were the cause, then non-gun crime would track much more closely, wouldnt it? And while the US has distinctly higher homicide rates than the UK, non-homicide violent crime is 2 to 4 times higher in the UK than it is in the US.
Furthermore as I have repeatedly shown, defensive gun uses save more than twice as many lives as are lost through criminal gun uses.
As for the More Guns = Less Crime conundrum which Tina dismisses as a fairy tale, as Dr. Lott states here:
Among peer-reviewed national studies by criminologists and economists, 18 find that right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime, 10 claim no effect, and just one claims one type of crime temporarily increases slightly.
Completely supported by data and logic; Q.E.D., empiricism trumps theory. But be warned: the mainstream media spread Tinas misinformed agit-prop throughout the length and breadth of the American internet. Mine will not make the same journey.
Americas Armed Intelligentsia must confront firearms-related ignorance in person, whenever we encounter it. Politely. Logically. And effectively. We must convince our fellow countrymen that they dont need gun control. They need a gun.
 L. Neil Smith, Letter to a Liberal Colleague
 Defensive Gun Uses
 Criminal Gun Uses
 Except the proposed legislation was far more sweeping than the Clinton ban. Share
It would be too much to ask that Tina Dupuy get even the simplest of facts right. Trayvon Martin was 17, not 16, and it is very likely that if Zimmerman did not have a gun, he would be dead, even if Martin was alive.
But, leftists are noted for ignoring facts when they get in they way of their fantasies.
they way should be the way.
Do believe in it...two hands on the gun!!
"Likewise it wasnt until 1968 that the Gun Control Act of 68 was enacted; and it was about that same time that governments big and small started blaming guns for crime".
The 1934 NFA was and is the biggest gun control boondoggle in our history. It used organized crime as the primary justification of the act, ironically, the same criminal class that the government created with prohibition. The ramifications of both actions are still being felt today and it should be the goal of every pro-second amendment group to get this seminal gun control policy repealed.
I do not own:
An M2 Browning (in Dual or Quad configuration)
A Bofors 40 mm
An Oerlikon 20 mm
A Thermonuclear device
I think that, under the circumstances, I am reacting pretty mildly considering how my 2nd Amendment rights are being trampled on.....
Quad 50s on a Halftrack......good air defence weapon and would break up any Zombie wave attack.
As for the Nuke.....not man portable.....plus unless you have either a B52,Minuteman missle system or a Pershing 2 it would be hard to deploy.
Me....I would settle for a BAR or a MG42...
The Constitution is written framed in the context of government “Powers” and individual “rights”. Governments can’t have rights, and individuals should have very limited powers because history proved to the founders that danger.
As such, with the ‘militia’ requirement some claim, why would the government need a ‘right’ in the bill of rights which has the purpose is to otherwise protect individual rights in every other amendment?
A government doesn’t need a right to be armed. They have no ‘power’ without arms anyway, so that ‘right’ is pointless. Of course a government will have arms. Thus the whole concept of a Constitutional protected right of government to have arms is both unnecessary and inconsistent, as well as suspect.
The framer’s intent regarding the 2A is obvious, and they wrote it as clearly as they could. Parsing words should set off alarm bells, as it would if applied to the 1A.
Of course the libs don’t see it that way.
The nuke I'd plant in the back yard, the equivalent of calling in Arty on your own position. If I lose, I'm not going alone....
Like the man said in the movie “Aliens”: Nuke the site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure”.
I haven't seen the numbers recently, but I recall that the white population in the U.S. has a homocide rate which differs very little from European populations.
The problem really seems to be that the minorities in the U.S. are extremely violent and the minority communities get no encouragement from liberals to clean up their neighborhoods.
I heard gunfire from my neighbor's place before I even got out of bed this morning. I doubt very much that anything criminal was going on.
Thanks for posting this article.
It would be bad enough if they merely ignored facts; instead they actively create their own facts.
Ex. "90% of guns used in crimes in Mexico..."
I suppose the article is well-reasoned as a rebuttal to the ridiculous assertions of whatever control-nut of the day’s claims are - as far as they go.
My assertion is that these people don’t need to be reasoned with, confronted with facts or logic - not any of that stuff.
They need to be crushed into the electoral ground like a common stink bug. Their opinions don’t matter, their plaints needn’t be answered. Crush them and put them out of their misery - out of government and away from our freedom.
As for the Nuke.....not man portable.....plus unless you have either a B52,Minuteman missle system or a Pershing 2 it would be hard to deploy.
Maybe some old Davy Crockett’s packed away in Cosomline somewhere?
If Zimmerman didn’t have a gun—he would be dead and his killer escaped to kill again.
Me, always fascinated by nuke design. Would love to have a modern H-bomb to take apart and examine.
Indeed. Our opposition are not interested in reasoned debate pursuant to discovery of truth, only in making slanderous drive-by assaults on the rights of others then moving on to the next verbal attack - while their victims tie themselves in knots trying to explain why the slander is ill-conceived.
Would that RKBA types put their money and rhetoric into filing lawsuits - in very large quantities - against every infringement complained of. 922(o) should be a slam dunk, but there it is some 25 years later.
Arguing gun control with the left is stupid. It only gives the impression we care what they think.
This is why I think it’s important everyone views politics as an extension of r/K Selection Theory, and explains this to Libs. You don’t even have to bother arguing with Liberals. Just point out why we view the issue differently, and let their implied, and unspoken, cowardice and inferiority shame them into silence. Check my site at http://www.anonymousconservative.com for a rundown of this.
Libs hate it when you ignore what they say, and then unemotionally point out what tools they are by an objective metric, and explain why you don’t view them as even worthy of debate. It takes them back to being the powerless kids on the playground, who know what everyone should be doing, and are frustrated no one pays attention to them.
We really need to understand their psychology better than this. Point by point refutations don’t change anyone’s mind, and feed the Lib’s Narcissism. Explaining their stupidity demeans them, and emphasizes their powerlessness and utter lack of importance.
I agree that you can’t change a lib’s mind, but it is the undecided or uneducated that we are really fighting over.
If unchallenged the lib wins.
When exposed to truth they retreat or fall apart spewing personal insults which convince the unconvinced that the lib is full of it.
I always go for that point; Respectfully arguing with undeniable fact until they resort to insult.
That is victory.
That is what the defeat of the liberal looks like.
One of my hobby goals is to machine my own mini-gun, a multi barrel Gatling gun. Something in a smaller caliber.
I have been following others that have built their own, its actually not that difficult if you have a mill, a lathe, and a TIG welder.
“the fact remains if Zimmerman didnt have a gun, 16-year-old Trayvon Martin would be alive, on death row.”
there, fixed it.
I got to this party really late tonight, was still planting at about 20;30, then supper. When I got to your comment I blew cold beer out my nose! Loved it and I agree 100%.
Always be polite, always be professional. Always have a plan to kill everything with a pulse within a 4000 meter radius. Semper Fi