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Perspectives: Heads they win, tails we lose [No ABO!]
St. George Utah.com ^ | June 1, 2012 | Bryan Hyde

Posted on 06/02/2012 8:58:03 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

Some lies are easier to spot than others. “Of course I’ll respect you in the morning.” “The check is in the mail.” “A vote for anybody but Romney is a vote for Obama.”

The people who repeat this last lie are undeniably sincere. They don’t recognize that they’re merely repeating a manipulative platitude, calculated to keep voters within the ideological boundaries of a thoroughly corrupt two party system. The falsehood being parroted sounds almost exactly like it did four years ago except, in 2008, the name “McCain” was used in place of “Romney.”

Once again the GOP faithful are being admonished to fall in line behind a political “choice” that was made for them many months ago. The individuals who made this decision included power brokers and policymakers representing both major parties. When the efforts of party leaders combine with their cronies in the media, corporations and influential moneyed interests, the outcome tends to favors them no matter who wins.

This was what author Carroll Quiqley referred to in his book “Tragedy and Hope” when he wrote: “The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.”

The fact that the likely GOP nominee and the current president share virtually identical stances on foreign policy, the welfare state, and monetary policy should be a strong clue that whichever candidate the voters elect this November, no actual change will occur.

Both candidates demonstrate disdain for the rule of law by their ongoing support of extra-judicial detentions and killings in the name of national security. Neither Romney nor Obama advocates a return to limited government and greater respect for the privacy and civil liberties of the American people. The interests of those who back them are hardly the interests of the American people.

So is it any surprise that the political ruling class keeps telling us that those candidates whose principles reflect greater freedom, constitutionally limited government, and responsible fiscal, monetary and foreign policies are “unelectable?” There seem to be just enough gullible voters each election cycle willing to take these official pronouncements at face value.

If there’s a lesson to be learned here, it’s that most coverage of the presidential election seems intended to distract the people from understanding the real issues.

Thankfully, an increasing number of voters are refusing to accept the false dilemma they’re being offered. These are the citizens who have taken the time to educate themselves politically, economically, spiritually, and philosophically. They recognize that the fraudulent two party system offers no real choice. They understand that the only vote for Obama will be one that comes from a person actually casting their ballot for Obama.

These are the voters who know that any political leader who supports gun bans, socialized medicine and the denial of due process when imprisoning or murdering individuals is unworthy of their vote. Whether that candidate’s name is Mitt Romney or Barack Obama is irrelevant. People who are in the habit of basing their decisions upon principle rather than pragmatism are more difficult to deceive.

Columnist Vin Suprynowizc once asked his readers to imagine that they were citizens of the Weimar Republic in the 1930s. He asked them how they would want to address their grandchildren as they approached the end of their lives. Would they prefer to tell their families “They told us that our only choice was between the Nazis and the Communists. So I had to choose the lesser of the two evils”? Or would they rather say, “I refused to support either the fascists or the Bolsheviks. Because of this, I was shouted down, marginalized and abused for refusing to acquiesce, but I stayed true to my conscience and to my principles”?

The future of our nation doesn’t hinge upon the outcome of this single presidential election. But it has a great deal to do with the long-term character and principles of the voters who will participate in this and future elections. If they can be deceived every election cycle into selling out for an illusory short-term political gain, we will all lose in the long run.

But if enough voters remain true to their core principles and refuse to be swayed from them, there is hope that the greater struggle for liberty and good government can be won


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abo; politics; romney
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: EternalVigilance

You’re going to blame your deadlocked confusion over the many better than Romney hopefuls on “this way of thinking”?

Nice projection, bud.

You folks should have foreseen that Obama’s singular abysmality would welcome a worse grade of GOP competitor than usual. And that Sarah declining to run would deprive you of a shoo-in. And done whatever needed to ensure you converged on a satisfactory candidate.

The GOPe out-organized you. They used you against yourselves in your confusion and division.


51 posted on 06/02/2012 11:56:41 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Our system operates on a coalition basis, just like a parliamentary system.

“The only real difference is that in our system we usually put together the coalitions within the parties rather than between the parties.

Then we see things pretty much the same.

I would only add that a primary result like this - manipulated by one key dimension of the party (GOPeRINOs) - results in a forced and weak coalition that will go forth with power. It still may win, but many will feel there isn’t enough there to be passionate about and they will not join. It doesn’t represent the totality of the party. They are counting on the hatred of Obama to get those they ignored to the polls. McCain did this (forced to) in choosing Palin. Apparently, RINOmney is planning to choose a non-conservative.

I will be out at the polls, enthusiastically supporting every conservative I see. Non-conservatives will be skipped.


52 posted on 06/02/2012 11:58:20 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: X-spurt
This poarticular guy has shown he is unafraid of either Congress or the Constitution by taking on doing whatever he pleases by caviot outside the rule of law

One surely has to ask, why is the Republican controlled Congress, doing nothing, absolutely nothing other than a few TV appearances by Issa, telling us he is getting ready to about, almost issue a contempt citation.

This is the result of voting for the lesser of two evils.

53 posted on 06/02/2012 11:58:55 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Romney is already pitching his tent noticeably wider with his refusal to condemn Trump, the birther.

I see many noses turned up over the Romney lemon. Fewer of them looking for ways to make lemonade out of it.


54 posted on 06/02/2012 12:04:53 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: rogue yam
There are many admirable young up-and-coming leaders in the GOP.

We sent a bunch of them to Congress last election. How many of them have not sold their soul to the GOPe? The Top of the ticket matters, and in that race we had only an illusion of a choice.

55 posted on 06/02/2012 12:05:33 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: itsahoot

Illusion, schmillusion! Any of the other hopefuls, even Mr. Incomplete Political Picture himself (Ron Paul), would have fewer faults than Romney. The problem if anything was too MUCH choice. You think there’s passion in this thread? It is but a shadow of the “Tastes great!” “Less filling!” over Santorum and Gingrich, splitting conservatives and leaving them to wither in this divided state.


56 posted on 06/02/2012 12:10:42 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: X-spurt
At this juncture once Primaries have passed, all the other arguments against Romney are both moot and counterproductive to ridding us of the socialist plague looking for a second shot to complete both fleecing us of our treasury and what's left of our freedom.

So are you Romney-supporters going to tell us when it is okay to criticize Romney's liberalism? Why do I have this feeling that many Romney supporters will insist that we have to be "team-players" if Romney gets elected? The sad thing is that Romney's record suggests that he'll adopt most of Obama's agenda but he'll place the Republican seal-of-approval on it. Rather than replacing Obama's abuses look for Romney to institutionalize them. Oh sure, he'll tear off the title page and rip out a page or two for appearances but in the end, Romney will give the liberals the book that they'll like.

57 posted on 06/02/2012 12:11:43 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It would be interesting to puzzle out how the constitution could be rejiggered

The Constitution did not establish parties, the Elite did. Whether you like it or not, we have a Royal Class in this country, so bow down to your bettors, and fact the cr@p sandwich they have served up. They did however serve it with very good bread.

Ask yourself why every candidate and every talking head proclaimed they would support Romney if he was the nominee. What incentive was there for the GOPe to mollify their position, even after the embarrassing defeat of McCain, they just doubled down.

58 posted on 06/02/2012 12:14:06 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: Sherman Logan; P-Marlowe
Yes, you are correct. I was thinking in terms of the popular vote again, but it does go to the electoral college. The winner must accrue a majority of the EC votes, and if no majority, then the top 3 must win a majority of the states, each state having one vote, and that vote coming from the House of Reps delegation from that state.

That makes Abe Lincoln's victory all the more stunning, doesn't it?

59 posted on 06/02/2012 12:16:07 PM PDT by xzins (Vote for Goode Not Evil! (The lesser of 2 evils is still evil!))
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To: CommerceComet

Sorry to dispell your mistaken notion, but I sure a heck ain’t a Romney supporter. I reluntantly went from Palin to Perry to Newt and voted Newt in our Texas Primary, this week.

Now its time to tell how the cow ate the cabbage and I don’t give a damn what Romney does once elected. At worst he will at least pretend the right things, at best may surprise us. What realistic options do we have???? Yes Siree Bob, it is down to ABO and Romney winds up with the bottle pointing at him!

Anyone now touting 3rd party is all but pulling the trigger on our national suicide.


60 posted on 06/02/2012 12:23:46 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: xzins
That makes Abe Lincoln's victory all the more stunning, doesn't it?

Not really, IMO.

He got only about 40% of the popular vote, but 60% of the electoral vote.

This was made inevitable by his opponents splitting their vote up three ways.

61 posted on 06/02/2012 12:24:23 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It’s you that’s projecting. Your post resembles nothing I’ve been doing for the last five years.


62 posted on 06/02/2012 12:25:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It is but a shadow of the “Tastes great!” “Less filling!” over Santorum and Gingrich, splitting conservatives and leaving them to wither in this divided state.

It was blatantly obvious that Newt could not win, he certainly had a chance to at least slow Romney down, instead he doubled down and split the vote. Ron Paul is an idiot.

Palin should have run, no matter the cost, because it was that important.

63 posted on 06/02/2012 12:30:01 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Thankfully, an increasing number of voters are refusing to accept the false dilemma they’re being offered. These are the citizens who have taken the time to educate themselves politically, economically, spiritually, and philosophically. They recognize that the fraudulent two party system offers no real choice. They understand that the only vote for Obama will be one that comes from a person actually casting their ballot for Obama.

obamachamberlain

Dear Bryan:

Thank you very much for your support and scintillating back-door endorsement, couched in language, guaranteed to confooze some Conservatives (especially at Free Repbulic) by using the "We Must Stand on 'PRINCIPLES'" argument.

It is brilliant if I might say so myself.

Again, I, my fellow Demo-Rats in Congress, my Far Left base, the Lame Stream Media and of course, my "Brothers" in the Islamic Movement, are most appreciative."

Give me 4 more years to complete what I have started and I can Guarantee, "PEACE IN OUR TIME..."

Of course it might not be exactly the kind of "Peace" y'all are used to, but as long as you "Submit" to Islam; practice Sharia, pay the Jizzya; abide by all the rule imposed according to our sacred prophet Mohammud (PBUH) and that which is governed by the Qur'an, then you will live like all other Infidels have been allowed to for the past 1,400 years.

Alahu Akbar!

Sincerely,

Barack, Barry, Soeotoro, Hussein, Obama.

64 posted on 06/02/2012 12:33:38 PM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: CommerceComet

Please do rag about Romney, and I say that with no irony.

Complaining about politicians is one of the oldest and greatest American traditions, next to freedom.

Mitt has waffled all over the place, in an attempt to garner whatever kudos he can that go with his locale. Why should anyone be surprised that in Massachusetts, Mitt did as Massholes do? The national climate is different, and Mitt will have to fit in or suffer the inglory. In the meantime any thinking person has to give the boy some credit for business sense; he knows up close and personal what helps American enterprise and what poisons it. If he only differed from Barack Obama in that one narrow way it would still be worth the change.


65 posted on 06/02/2012 12:35:16 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: itsahoot

First of all the GOP only controls the House, not all of Congress.

Second, historically it has been very rare for The House to issue a Contempt citation against any Administration and may even be impossible with a split Congress, Senate being majority Dem.

I personally would cite nobama and holder with every breath, but I and we, are not privy to or aware of all the goings on with Congress.

Even if Contempt citation was issued, it would be well beyond the election before anything changed. If nobama re-wins, he will just flip Congress and us the bird and keep on going until either we or the Generals take control by whatever mean is necessary.


66 posted on 06/02/2012 12:37:05 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: EternalVigilance

Did I not sum up the tone of your statement well? Blaming others for what the Great Herd Of Tea Party Cats did to itself?


67 posted on 06/02/2012 12:37:05 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

No. You obviously have no idea what I’ve been doing or what I think. You’re simply projecting your own perspective.


68 posted on 06/02/2012 12:40:13 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: itsahoot

I’d like to ask, how did Romney get fixed upon as the GOPe Heir Apparent?

It wasn’t just money, or we’d be talking about Donald Trump now, not Mitt.

If nothing else, the fact that there was virtually no infighting in the GOPe over this, bespeaks a level of organization that ought to move Tea Parties to jealousy.


69 posted on 06/02/2012 12:40:32 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: EternalVigilance

How is taking your statement at its plain, blaming value a projection of any way, kind, shape, or sort?


70 posted on 06/02/2012 12:41:19 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
How is taking your statement at its plain, blaming value a projection of any way, kind, shape, or sort?

Well, let's take it one line at a time:

You’re going to blame your deadlocked confusion over the many better than Romney hopefuls on “this way of thinking”?

I'm not deadlocked or confused at all. I never supported any of those you're referencing, and I know explicitly why.

You folks should have foreseen that Obama’s singular abysmality would welcome a worse grade of GOP competitor than usual.

I've been forecasting the continued downward spiral of the formerly grand old party for years now.

And that Sarah declining to run would deprive you of a shoo-in.

I've never supported Mrs. Palin. I disagree with her on certain fundamental non-negotiable matters of public policy.

And done whatever needed to ensure you converged on a satisfactory candidate.

We did. Outside the Republican rigged game.

The GOPe out-organized you. They used you against yourselves in your confusion and division.

Hardly. In the first place I'm no longer a participant in the rigged Republican Party game, and in the second place, again, I've had no confusion over what the formerly grand old party is doing. And those I politically associate with are not divided at all.

So, again, you obviously know nothing about me or what I think, and are doing nothing more than projecting that ignorance my way.

71 posted on 06/02/2012 12:56:28 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
Of course it might not be exactly the kind of "Peace" y'all are used to, but as long as you "Submit" to Islam; practice Sharia, pay the Jizzya; abide by all the rule imposed according to our sacred prophet Mohammud (PBUH) and that which is governed by the Qur'an, then you will live like all other Infidels have been allowed to for the past 1,400 years.

Alahu Akbar!

----------------------------------------------

1 - A LDS perspective on Muhammed (LDS.org)
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng

2 - U.S. Muslims share friendship, similar values with Mormons (LA Times, published in 2008)
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/local/me-morlims2

3 - Mormonism and Islam: Commonality and Cooperation Between Abrahamic Faiths (March 10 & 11, 2011 - Utah Valley University)
http://www.uvu.edu/religiousstudies/mormonismandislam/

4 - Ask a Mormon: What do Mormons think of Muslims (March 2010 - MormonWoman.org)
http://mormonwoman.org/2010/03/15/ask-a-mormon-woman-what-do-mormons-think-about-islam/

5 - Mormons and Muslims break fast together (Ramadan 2010 - Deseret News)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705386347/Mormons-Muslims-break-the-fast-in-Southern-California.html

6 - Islamic Translation Service (Brigham Young University)
http://meti.byu.edu/islamic.php

7 - Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets (Deseret News - Dec 2009)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353014/Muslims-attending-BYU-focus-on-similarities-between-Islam-LDS-tenets.html

These are multiple sources, post 9-11, all of which are Mormon or Mormon-friendly.

Bet you were unaware of the ties between mormons and islam, weren't you?

***********************************************************

The Islamic Translation Series is designed not only to further scholarship in the study of Islamic philosophy, theology, and mysticism, but, by encouraging the translation of Islamic texts into the technical language of contemporary Western scholarship, to assist in the integration of Islamic studies into Western academia and to promote global perspectives in the disciplines to which it is devoted. Islamic civilization represents nearly fourteen centuries of intense intellectual activity, and believers in Islam number in the hundreds of millions. The texts that will appear in ITS are among the treasures of this great culture. But they are more than that. They are properly the inheritance of all the peoples of the world. Brigham Young University and its Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts are pleased to sponsor the Islamic Translation Series. In doing so, we hope to serve our fellow human beings, of all creeds and cultures.

The texts that appear in this series are among the cultural treasures of the world, representing as they do the medieval efflorescence of Arabic-Islamic civilization-a civilization in which works of impressive intellectual stature were composed not only by Muslims but also by Christians, Jews, and others in a quest for knowledge that transcended religious and ethnic boundaries. Together they not only preserved the best of Greek thought but enhanced it, added to it, and built upon it a corpus of scientific and philosophical understanding that is properly the inheritance of all the peoples of the world. From the mormon university, BYU

Link

From the Islamic studies dept. at mormon university BYU,

72 posted on 06/02/2012 1:16:21 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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To: EternalVigilance

As a hard core unherdable cat who thought ONLY outside boxes, I suppose this could have been expected of you.

Good day, sir; depart to your virtual irrelevancy.


73 posted on 06/02/2012 1:24:16 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: greyfoxx39

A Mormon university treats Islam as a museum curiosity — as most American university antiquities departments do.

Big fat news?


74 posted on 06/02/2012 1:28:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
A Mormon university treats Islam as a museum curiosity — as most American university antiquities departments do.

You obviously didn't even look at the other links that were posted showing mormon/muslim ties in order to cherry pick something to dismiss.

Mormon taqiyah.

That's OK...there are others reading this thread.

75 posted on 06/02/2012 1:43:52 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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To: greyfoxx39

By Mormon orthodoxy, Islam would be a heresy, same as “normal” Christianity is. If alleged Mormon flirtations with heretical Islam mean a sea change for the whole LDS, the case made for it still appears to be underwhelming. Pretty sure the official Mormon eschatology is that all other faiths will come to embrace Mormonism, so a sell out to Islam seems exceedingly unlikely.


76 posted on 06/02/2012 1:49:06 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
In the meantime any thinking person has to give the boy some credit for business sense; he knows up close and personal what helps American enterprise and what poisons it. If he only differed from Barack Obama in that one narrow way it would still be worth the change.

I'm skeptical about Romney having a lot of economic sense. More than Obama, for sure, but that doesn't mean he's good, by any means.

In my profession, I interact with corporate executives frequently. I have been surprised by how ill-informed some of them are on basic economic issues. Remember it's these type of people who often lead the charge in Congress on stupid policies because it is advantageous to their company or industry. Given Romney's enthusiasm about the auto bail-out, cap and trade, and other economic issues, I doubt his economic instincts are that great. His economic solutions always involve government intervention.

If I'm proven wrong about Romney, I'll remind you that I was. If I'm proven right about Romney, you'll have to remember that I warned you about Romney because I don't play the "I told you so" card. I'm really sure that we're being sold a bill of goods in Romney.

77 posted on 06/02/2012 1:56:03 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: CommerceComet

I’d have to see what “the rest of the story” is about Mitt’s more liberal economic leanings. Does Mitt have a vision for how GM and Chrysler can be turned back out of the taxpayer funded zoo to live in the wild? Is Romney open to evolving his view on global warming (if not for that widespread belief, cap and trade would make no sense to anyone, let alone Romney)? Romney does seem to be stumping for “tax less” and that has to lead logically to “spend less.”


78 posted on 06/02/2012 2:04:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Try reading the links before posting your opinion.

Pretty sure the official Mormon eschatology is that all other faiths will come to embrace Mormonism, so a sell out to Islam seems exceedingly unlikely.

BTW, the attacks made by Joseph Smith and other mormon leaders were agains Christian faiths. Joseph Smith claimed to be a "second mohammed".

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

 
 

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2006/11/29/i-will-be-a-second-mohammed/

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

Why Are Mormons (& John Conyers) Funding Islamic Terrorism?

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Mormon Church, is the single largest donor to the U.S. branch of Islamic Relief Worldwide (IRW), also known as Islamic Relief. In the past year, it donated $1.6 million to the charity.

But Islamic Relief is not just any charity. The Israeli government says it is a HAMAS front group. It is also under investigation by the American government." August 2006

79 posted on 06/02/2012 2:04:56 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It wasn’t just money, or we’d be talking about Donald Trump now, not Mitt.

No, it was money and commitment. Trump never wanted to be President, he just wanted attention. Romney, on the other hand, has been dedicated to being President for at least 6 years now (and probably longer).

If nothing else, the fact that there was virtually no infighting in the GOPe over this, bespeaks a level of organization that ought to move Tea Parties to jealousy.

That's because the GOP-e knows that Romney is a true-blue RINO without question. If he was what the Mittbots try to convince us he really is, the GOP-e would have never supported him. The GOP-e know that Romney is the anti-Tea Party candidate and that no Tea Party pressure is going to persuade him. Romney is their chosen tool to quiet the Tea Party Rebellion just like George Romney would have quashed the Goldwater and Reagan Revolutions if he had been able. Opposing conservatives has been a Romney family tradition for two generations now.

If the Tea Party tries to influence Romney, he'll just form a coalition with the RINOs and Democrats and govern from the left just like he wants. He'll be able to count on the Republican sheep who will continue to vote for him because he has an R behind his name. The press will idolize him (until the 2016 campaign when it will shift loyalty to the Democrat nominee) because he stands up to the Radical Right.

80 posted on 06/02/2012 2:13:13 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: knarf
The time for ideology is in the primary ... after that, we vote for the outcome.

Not for ME. Ideology works ALL the time; or else it is a vapid waste of time.

81 posted on 06/02/2012 2:15:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: knarf
The time for ideology is in the primary ... after that, we vote for the outcome.

'We' voted for Obama last time, to 'show' we wuzzent RACIST;
'we' voted for Romney this time, to 'show' we wuzzent a BIGOT.

THERE's what our 'ideology' got us!

82 posted on 06/02/2012 2:19:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: knarf
I don't prefer that, but I cannot live with a clear conscience if zero is re-elected and I had voted for __________ as an idealogical or protest vote.

While I cannot live with a clear conscience if I had

voted for ROMNEY, to save our country,
and then his 'religion' is such to lose men's souls.

83 posted on 06/02/2012 2:24:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39

Smith is “unwittingly” looking to recap Islam in toto?

Curious theory, but is Smith guilty of worse than a cafeteria style pagan syncretism? The Mormon church was murderous in that day. Are modern Mormon muckety mucks like Mitt expected to keep carrying Mohammed’s “sword”? Not even our own Jim Rob, who could not be accused of a speck of sympathy towards Mitt, buys this. I flagged him on the Mormon influence question about a week ago — an issue which if valid trumps all other issues about Mitt — and the response was meta-meh.


84 posted on 06/02/2012 2:24:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: X-spurt
“The future of our nation doesn’t hinge upon the outcome of this single presidential election”......

Oh?

This country does NOT have a political problem; but a SPIRITUAL one.




Are you still killing your unborn?

-- GOD


 

85 posted on 06/02/2012 2:26:21 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
And so once more it all devolves into a battle of the bots. Mittbots vs. antiMittbots.

How can you miss the point SO completely?

It's between CHRISTIANITY and a unique American HERSY!

86 posted on 06/02/2012 2:28:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
And so once more it all devolves into a battle of the bots. Mittbots vs. antiMittbots.

How can you miss the point SO completely?

It's between CHRISTIANITY and a unique American HERESY!

87 posted on 06/02/2012 2:28:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: CommerceComet

The GOPe must believe Mitt quite pliant in spite of his many famous flip flops. If it were I in GOPe shoes, I would be worried about those flip flops especially if they bespoke something I could NOT control, namely the LDS high hierarchy.


88 posted on 06/02/2012 2:28:43 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: Elsie; greyfoxx39

Your purity will earn you a medal... keep an eye open for it
It will come in the mail


89 posted on 06/02/2012 2:30:13 PM PDT by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: Elsie

Asian heresies are superior? Even at its most murderous the LDS never showed a clear parallel to Islam’s jihad for world conquest.


90 posted on 06/02/2012 2:30:56 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: CommerceComet
No, it was money and commitment. Trump never wanted to be President, he just wanted attention. Romney, on the other hand, has been dedicated to being President for at least 6 years now (and probably longer).






...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’

Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.

91 posted on 06/02/2012 2:37:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Red herring time?


92 posted on 06/02/2012 2:38:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: woofie

Have you received a Lack of Commitment medal?


93 posted on 06/02/2012 2:39:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
voted for ROMNEY, to save our country, and then his 'religion' is such to lose men's souls.

Don't look now, Elsie. But, there, under your bed.

It's a MORMON!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

You're doomed.

94 posted on 06/02/2012 2:42:27 PM PDT by okie01
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To: Elsie

If you prefer blue herring I’ll serve that up instead.

Seriously with Obama we get a direct path to Islam. With Mitt, some syncretistic echo of it, maybe. Even if both were the same, why shouldn’t the incumbent be denied more than four years? (Voting for a spoiler wouldn’t do that.)


95 posted on 06/02/2012 2:44:48 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: Elsie

Seems that the LDS has been dispensing pretty lousy advice to the guy who’s being jockeyed into position to fulfill their wish. Mitt, be sure to flip-flop everywhere you go? And don’t forget to kiss up to gays?


96 posted on 06/02/2012 2:48:10 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: Elsie

I am as committed as anyone here, but though this is a tiny corner of the universe with like minded people, even we, dont agree all the time.

If you want to play “Im better than you” nobody I know cares..... and they dam sure dont care anywhere else


97 posted on 06/02/2012 3:04:54 PM PDT by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; Jim Robinson
Not even our own Jim Rob, who could not be accused of a speck of sympathy towards Mitt, buys this. I flagged him on the Mormon influence question about a week ago — an issue which if valid trumps all other issues about Mitt — and the response was meta-meh

If you plan to criticize JR, you should ping him to your criticisms. I'll do it for you.

If you still refuse to read the links I posted regarding mormon/muslim ties, please do not comment about mormon/muslim to me again.

98 posted on 06/02/2012 3:11:59 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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To: greyfoxx39; Jim Robinson

I’m not criticizing Jim, but YOU (foxx) for making that kind of deal over it. I still stand by the observation that if Mitt has promised the LDS that he’s going to play mother may I through a Romney presidency, then Houston we do have a real big problem, and it ain’t philosophical or religious. It’s got national security implication. Nobody’s given top secret clearance to Salt Lake City. Jim if I got you wrong in reading you don’t see that as a problem with a Mitt presidency, then I apologize for misreading you.


99 posted on 06/02/2012 3:16:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Let me ABOs run loose Lou!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I’m not criticizing Jim, but YOU (foxx) for making that kind of deal over it.

YOU are responsible for your comments. Do you stand up for them or not? Blame me if it floats your boat, LOL.

100 posted on 06/02/2012 3:25:08 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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