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The Chief Justice's Gambit (Not as bad as we think??)
Rea Clear Politics ^ | June 27,2012 | Sean Trende

Posted on 06/28/2012 2:37:54 PM PDT by Hojczyk

But I think if you scratch the surface here, Roberts embarked upon a gambit much like Marshall did 200 years ago. For the results-oriented -- which is to say, most observers on both sides who have been ranting about the Constitution for the past few months -- this is a clear win for the Obama administration, at least in the short term. By removing most legal impediments to the implementation of the law, the odds that the president’s signature legislation will eventually be implemented have risen.

1. The law still has a good chance of not being implemented.

2. Doctrinally, The Federalist Society got everything it wanted.

But judicial conservatives who are not just concerned about the outcome got more than they could have reasonably hoped for. Doctrinally speaking, this case will likely be remembered as a watershed decision for conservatives.

Five justices just signaled to lower courts that, but for the unique taxation power argument, they were prepared to rule that a major act of Congress that plainly touched upon economic activity exceeded Congress’ commerce powers. Right now, liberals are seemingly too busy celebrating their win, and conservatives bemoaning their loss, to realize the significance of this.

3. The chief justice has built up some political capital.

Roberts has basically done what John Marshall did: Insulate the court from criticism of bald partisan bias and infidelity to, as he once put it, calling balls and strikes. He’s earning plaudits from the left. Though the right is grumbling, I suspect they won’t be doing so for long

4. This matters in the long run -- a lot.

All told, it is easier for the conservative wing of the court to make some significant rulings in some other policy areas.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obamacaretax
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To: NELSON111

You’re probably right Nelson. However, there are tools here you can used to go back and see if your allegations are correct. Should prove interesting.


51 posted on 06/28/2012 3:56:47 PM PDT by bigfootbob
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To: RckyRaCoCo

What elections? We constqantly vote in Conservative Justices that stab us in the back!


52 posted on 06/28/2012 3:58:06 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Hojczyk

‘What a load of crap!

It’s ‘Robertscare’ now. He bought it. He owns it.


53 posted on 06/28/2012 4:05:23 PM PDT by citizen (Obomo blames:Arab Spring,Banks,Big Oil,Bush,Ceos,Coal,Euro Zone,FNC,Jpn Tsunami,T Party,Wall St,You)
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To: Covenantor

Don’t worry about your state you will have to travel. I predicted years ago the death camps would be in Louisiana. Our politicians will do anything for a buck, Jindal included.


54 posted on 06/28/2012 4:07:37 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We're an Oligrachy...Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Lou Budvis
Here’s the flaw in the Roberts-cut-down-the-Commerce-Clause meme - it is entirely dependant on other judges interpreting the law that way. Liberal judges won’t.

I agree. It would take strong conservative majorities to build upon this "victory". Liberal judges will completely ignore it.

55 posted on 06/28/2012 4:08:27 PM PDT by joe212
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To: Hojczyk
3. The chief justice has built up some political capital.
Roberts has basically done what John Marshall did: Insulate the court from criticism of bald partisan bias and infidelity to, as he once put it, calling balls and strikes. He’s earning plaudits from the left.

If they are appointed for life and they are an equal branch of government, then why is political capitol and trade-offs, and political positioning so important?

56 posted on 06/28/2012 4:09:03 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: Hojczyk

I expected spin from the democrats. Didn’t see they cyclone of spin from the right coming.


57 posted on 06/28/2012 4:14:23 PM PDT by DManA
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Yeah, I read a lot of things that I don’t want to read either like people telling me to shut up. I believe it’s called “Free” Republic for a reason.


58 posted on 06/28/2012 4:14:33 PM PDT by throwback (The object of opening the mind, is as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.)
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To: Kazan

Bottom line: Electing RINOs like the Bushes is a disaster.”

Let’s see -
Scalia, Kennedy (Reagan)
Thomas (GHWBush), Alito (GWBush) voted to strike down Obamacare.

Ginsberg, Breyer (Clinton), Kagan, Sotomayor (Obama) voted to uphold.

So 4 of 5 GOP appointed Justices and 0 for 4 Dem appointed Justice did the right thing.

bottom line: Electing Democrats is a disaster. Electing Bushes, not so much.


59 posted on 06/28/2012 4:17:29 PM PDT by WOSG (REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA.)
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To: A Strict Constructionist

Oh I don’t know about that. Maryland might be behind LA but not by much.


60 posted on 06/28/2012 4:19:22 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: dfwgator
It’s over, they won, we lost. People can’t face reality so they are trying to spin this as some kind of “win” for us....there is no “win” here.

Like I have stated, over the last 20 yrs whatever the elites want & that being the big issues they ALWAYS get. There can be 85 conservative senators & these elites can peel off the number needed to rule against the people. Yes, it is & WAS over with the last election - this is just the consequences of such.

61 posted on 06/28/2012 4:37:38 PM PDT by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: CharacterCounts

Bookmark


62 posted on 06/28/2012 4:39:28 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: Hojczyk
"Not as bad as we think?"

That question is about as asinine/moronic as the Roberts majority opinion!

63 posted on 06/28/2012 4:54:42 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: Hojczyk
This is just spinning to justify the roberts decision. Levin says that you would have to be stark raving mad to agree with this decision. The SCOTUS asked for this to be argued on 4 points... they asked for four and only four points... and roberts decides this case on a convoluted 5th point. Scalia, Alito and Thomas all disagreed STRONGLY with roberts and their opinions rip him and his jurisprudence to shreds. I cannot believe that people want to rationalize the worst SCOTUS decision in the HISTORY of this Republic... maybe the very decision that starts the beginning of the end.

LLS

64 posted on 06/28/2012 4:55:02 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: NELSON111

You were correct... the rat bastard fooled me twice... but no bush will ever fool me again.

LLS


65 posted on 06/28/2012 4:56:13 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
It was only last night that some did not want to hear that roberts would vote to affirm... but we were right and he did. Anyone that thinks romney has this sewn up would be wrong. There are no guarantees in America any longer... not one.

LLS

66 posted on 06/28/2012 5:00:33 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: tennmountainman

Mark has been magnificent tonight.

LLS


67 posted on 06/28/2012 5:02:54 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Nervous Tick
No excuses... Conservatives do not lie... not even to ourselves. We are not dims or leftists and most of us have had it with lies and spin and party BS. There can be no more coddling of political damage control for the republican elite. roberts deserves all of the ire of Constitutionalists and them some.

LLS

68 posted on 06/28/2012 5:06:43 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Hi LLS,

Yes he has. Listening now to 3rd hour.


69 posted on 06/28/2012 5:07:35 PM PDT by tennmountainman
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To: LibLieSlayer

Of course Conservatives lie, even to themselves. No one, no one, is perfect. Roberts isn’t the enemy. I’m trying to understand his decision and still working through it but he’s human, like the rest of us. And I challenge anyone who claims to be perfect, has never lied, etc.

This crossing off people for whatever reason imaginable isn’t the way to change things. IMO which means nothing more than your opinion means. We either change what our Country has become or we don’t but blaming others isn’t going to change a damn thing.


70 posted on 06/28/2012 5:16:00 PM PDT by Twink
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To: WOSG
Let’s see - Scalia, Kennedy (Reagan) Thomas (GHWBush), Alito (GWBush) voted to strike down Obamacare.

Oh, you left a couple -- Sandra Day O'Connor and David Souter, who were also put on the courts by Republicans. And, Kennedy is often on the liberal side.

Republicans are doing no better than 50%. That isn't good enough when Democratic Presidents are making the right picks 100% of the time.

71 posted on 06/28/2012 5:23:56 PM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: WOSG
Let’s see - Scalia, Kennedy (Reagan) Thomas (GHWBush), Alito (GWBush) voted to strike down Obamacare.

Oh, you left out a couple -- Sandra Day O'Connor and David Souter, who were also put on the courts by Republicans. And, Kennedy is often on the liberal side.

Republicans are doing no better than 50%. That isn't good enough when Democratic Presidents are making the right picks 100% of the time.

72 posted on 06/28/2012 5:24:31 PM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: LibLieSlayer

There were never any guarantees. Ever. Our Govt is only allowed to get away with/make laws, etc. to the extent the people allow it.

I tried explaining to my college age kids what this SCOTUS decision means. While at the same time trying to understand it myself. Like most of the country who bother to keep informed of politics, it’s a bit confusing trying to get past the propaganda from all sides.

Politicians have lied since before Rome. It’s not anything new to anyone who has studied history.

Nothing will change unless the people make changes. As they have since the beginnig of time.


73 posted on 06/28/2012 5:27:08 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Kazan

“Oh, you left out a couple — Sandra Day O’Connor and David Souter”

Um, no, they are off the court; neither ruled today.
I was talking about Justices ruled today.

80% score for GOP appointees.
0% score for Dem appointees.

“That isn’t good enough when Democratic Presidents are making the right picks 100% of the time.”

The Dem picks have been AWFUL, NO-GOOD TERRIBLE for our Constitution. ‘right picks’?!?


74 posted on 06/28/2012 5:31:35 PM PDT by WOSG (REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA.)
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To: ChocChipCookie
I work for one of the biggest companies in the country and it was implemented immediately.

Can still be repealed. Those software switches triggered can be un-triggered just as fast. Dropping, adding, changing coverage is what all insurance software can do on a dime.

75 posted on 06/28/2012 5:38:06 PM PDT by txhurl (Scott Walker is my President.)
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To: ConservativeDude

I’m surprised someone hasn’t mentioned to you Harriet Meirs was replaced by Alito, not Roberts. Hey, it’s been a bloody busy day, as we knew it would be.


76 posted on 06/28/2012 5:41:44 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Hojczyk

Thanks for posting this. After listening to all the people who are supposed to understand all this, I’m still totally confused about just what happened with Roberts. I like this one. I think I will shut the TV, computer, and iPad down with the thoughts portrayed here, and pretend all is well.


77 posted on 06/28/2012 5:42:25 PM PDT by Helen
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To: CharacterCounts; joe fonebone
You are wrong. Prior to this decision, a tax was for the purpose of raising revenue.

You are the one who's wrong. To liberals, the purpose of tax is not to raise revenue, but to level the income playing field. "Fairness." Check out the way they dissemble like crazy whenever you point out the fact that increasing taxes on the higher earners actually reduces revenue. They leave the field of rational thought and point to "fairness."

The other poster (joe fonebone) is correct to point out the Congress has always been free to levy whatever tax they want, but it's extremely unpopular as a general proposition, so there is a natural firewall to it.

78 posted on 06/28/2012 5:51:01 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Hojczyk

He got a lemon. We’ll see how the lemonade turns out.


79 posted on 06/28/2012 5:59:23 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Hojczyk
That's all well and good if one assumes that Roberts' stand was for those very reasons alone. But I'm not a psychoanalyst; nor do I divine wisdom from reading tea leaves, as seems to be the author's professional stock in trade. I rate this armchair analysis as.........

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

--H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920


80 posted on 06/28/2012 6:01:50 PM PDT by Viking2002 ("If you're gonna hang out in places like this, wear a badge on your didey.")
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To: Twink
If I were Speaker... I would be working on impeaching roberts. Go read the dissenting opinions of Scalia, Alito and Thomas... don't you think that the three trustworthy Conservative Jurists on the Supreme Court would know the Constitutional mandate and the real truth behind this horrible decision... or do you just want to rationalize the worst decision in the History of the SCOTUS?

LLS

81 posted on 06/28/2012 6:02:19 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Twink

Reagan never lied to me. Men of honor do not lie... but then I am a relic of a bygone era... but I am still here and until I die... that is what I shall remain. I am not perfect... far from it... but I do not lie and I love GOD and our Republic.

LLS


82 posted on 06/28/2012 6:05:26 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Viking2002

As usual... clear of mind and vision.

LLS


83 posted on 06/28/2012 6:06:28 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer
Danke schoen.

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

--H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920


84 posted on 06/28/2012 6:22:20 PM PDT by Viking2002 ("If you're gonna hang out in places like this, wear a badge on your didey.")
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To: ConservativeDude

“...then why wouldn’t Thomas join in the fun?”

Justice Thomas was needed to join he minority which flately stated that Obamacare was unconstitutional.

Clearly something more than just this one decision is at work here....exactly what it is I’m not entirely sure, though I have some suspecions.

Local radio station in liberal Sacramento ran a poll about the USSC decision. Right now it’s 98.5% no 1.5% yes. lolololol. Sorry, not a laughing matter.

Vote ‘em out. Vote ‘em all out!


85 posted on 06/28/2012 7:12:52 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (The barely bare, berry bear formerly known as..........Ursus Arctos Horribilis.)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I don’t want to rationalize anything. By either side.

This is my area. History and Law and Education. I’m very tuned into it.

I’ve had to tamp down on my emotional response, since I disagree with the decision. And unlike St. Sarah, yes St. Sarah, I’m not playing to worshippers who hang on my every word as if it’s given from God himself.

This isn’t anything new. Since the Great Depression, FDR, our rights have been chipped away. My Father, who fought in WWII unlike most posters on here, who put his life where his mouth is, said this was going to happen 40+ yrs ago. I grew up hearing about how the media was going to kill us all, how unAmerican they were. How the so called race issues were all about power and nothing to do with race. And I grew up in philly so I saw that first hand. So the race baiters can KMA.

If you were Speaker....hell if i were a billionaire I wouldn’t be so concerned about this tax that is going to make us a third world country. Hell, if I were a princess, I’d have royal blood. Bah.

If you had the power, what exactly would you do, besides being commando on some internet forum? You want to go after Roberts? He’s the least of our problems and that someone as smart as you doesn’t see that is disturbing.

We are a war, culturally and politically. The extreme on each side doesn’t seem to get it.

I consider the Left morons, even though they know how to organzie and get their issues in the media and succeed in turning the tide. I have four kids...I watch what they watch and listen to what they listen to. The right, on our side, continually shoots themself. Part of it is fighting the media and everything else. As far as Im concerned, we aren’t anywhere fighting it on that level.


86 posted on 06/28/2012 7:25:18 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Salvation

The comparison with Marbury is apt.

Robert’s asserted a principle but then didnt use it to fully decide the case.

Obamacare won on a technicality.

But the bigger point is that this bill is hugely consequential, more so than one man’s commission. The principles and the reasoning will be of far less consequence than whether this bill stands in the coming years. It’s obama’s legacy.


87 posted on 06/28/2012 8:33:58 PM PDT by WOSG (REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA.)
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To: KGeorge

I have a dumb question. Is there absolutely *no* constitutional mechanism for having a referendum re 0bamacare on the November ballot?”

NO, there is none.

You want ot get rid of Obamacare?
REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA.


88 posted on 06/28/2012 8:36:37 PM PDT by WOSG (REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA.)
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To: Jim from C-Town

“Let’s talk about Roberts. I’m going to tell you something that you’re not going to hear anywhere else, that you must pay attention to. It’s well known that Roberts, unfortunately for him, has suffered from epileptic seizures. Therefore he has been on medication. Therefore neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders, such as epilepsy, can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness and other cognitive problems. And if you look at Roberts’ writings you can the cognitive disassociation in what he is saying.” ~ Michael Savage


89 posted on 06/28/2012 8:46:55 PM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: joe fonebone

Just adding that since this is a tax, it can be defunded under reconciliation w/only 51 Senators.

Making it a tax gave us a way to get rid of it.


90 posted on 06/28/2012 8:50:10 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Drill Thrawl

That is nothing new. If they would have just called this a tax, it is almost assured all earlier courts would have ruled the law constitutional.


91 posted on 06/28/2012 9:02:48 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: FredZarguna; All

YET AGAIN, THE TAXATION IS NOT NEW POWER.

Virtually every single legal scholar agrees that all courts from the bottom up would have upheld the law if Congress had explicitly called it a tax.

Roberts did not expand government at all with the decision, actually dramatically restricting it and daring people to elect those to will repeal the bill when he wrote in his opinion that it is the job of the people to fix policy abuses by Congress, not the court.


92 posted on 06/28/2012 9:15:27 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: rwfromkansas
Yet again: The taxation power, ruled as necessary and proper because taxation itself is necessary and proper is a new and dangerous legal theory.

LOCKING YOUR CAPS WON'T MAKE THIS A GOOD DECISION, AND IT DOESN'T IMPROVE YOUR "ARGUMENT."

And throw-away dicta about the Commerce Clause will have no bearing on any future decision.

93 posted on 06/28/2012 9:48:50 PM PDT by FredZarguna (The justification for a tax cannot be the authority to tax in and of itself.)
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To: Hojczyk
It's disheartening to read on this thread, and others, that people are deluding themselves into believing that this will somehow limit the use of the commerce clause due to this ruling.

I'm sorry, but throwing out this unconstitutional law with the same “reasoning” would have done the exact same thing to the abuse of the commerce clause, so this rationale is nonsense.

It's really quite simple. We have been betrayed by another coward who was afraid to do his job, ie “the right thing”.

Anyone here understand why? I believe I understand exactly why this shit is happening, but I'm wondering if anyone else really “gets it”.

94 posted on 06/28/2012 11:04:21 PM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: Pox
this will somehow limit the use of the commerce clause due to this ruling.

But it will limit the use of the Commerce Clause. In fact, it makes the Commerce Clause superfluous. All future Congresses will now simply pass previously unconstitutional acts as tax legislation.

95 posted on 06/28/2012 11:09:59 PM PDT by kevao
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To: kevao
But it will limit the use of the Commerce Clause.

Well Lah Dee Freakin' Dah!

96 posted on 06/28/2012 11:11:47 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: dfwgator

Maybe you should read my entire post before sharing your incisive commentary. It is, after all, only three sentences long.


97 posted on 06/28/2012 11:18:25 PM PDT by kevao
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To: kevao

Sorry, I did read it all, I know you were being sarcastic, I guess I just felt like piling on.


98 posted on 06/28/2012 11:19:27 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: dfwgator

I know the feeling. Believe me.


99 posted on 06/28/2012 11:22:11 PM PDT by kevao
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To: Kazan

Bush is not just a RINO, he is a globalist like Dad.


100 posted on 06/29/2012 3:45:55 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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