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$26 a gallon?! Navy's 'Green Fleet' meets stiff headwinds
Reuters ^ | 7/2/2012 | David Alexander

Posted on 07/03/2012 8:47:48 AM PDT by kingattax

A U.S. Navy oiler slipped away from a fuel depot on the Puget Sound in Washington state one recent day, headed toward the central Pacific and into the storm over the Pentagon's controversial green fuels initiative.

In its tanks, the USNS Henry J. Kaiser carried nearly 900,000 gallons of biofuel blended with petroleum to power the cruisers, destroyers and fighter jets of what the Navy has taken to calling the "Great Green Fleet," the first carrier strike group to be powered largely by alternative fuels.

Conventionally powered ships and aircraft in the strike group will burn the blend in an operational setting for the first time this month during the 22-nation Rim of the Pacific exercise, the largest annual international maritime warfare maneuvers. The six-week exercise began on Friday.

The Pentagon hopes it can prove the Navy looks as impressive burning fuel squeezed from seeds, algae and chicken fat as it does using petroleum.

But the demonstration, years in the making, may be a Pyrrhic victory.

(Excerpt) Read more at today.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fuel; green; navy; watermelon

1 posted on 07/03/2012 8:47:51 AM PDT by kingattax
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To: kingattax

I’m sure this is one of those “follow the money” deals.

You know the outfits with these contracts are supporting Dems.

But you have to give the Chicago Mob credit, they do a full court press of corruption.


2 posted on 07/03/2012 8:51:11 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: kingattax

I wonder if they did a study on the effects this fuel has on the life of ship and aircraft engines? We know the garbage we use in cars in some parts of the country affect their engines.


3 posted on 07/03/2012 8:56:05 AM PDT by mortal19440
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To: nascarnation
You know the outfits with these contracts are supporting Dems.

Has anyone checked Pelosi’s plastic surgeon’s appointment book? She may have extra money to blow.

4 posted on 07/03/2012 8:58:11 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: kingattax
Some Republican lawmakers have seized on the fuel's $26-a-gallon price, compared to $3.60 for conventional fuel. They paint the program as a waste of precious funds at a time when the U.S. government's budget remains severely strained, the Pentagon is facing cuts and energy companies are finding big quantities of oil and gas in the United States.

It's so strange how some people look at something like this, $3.60 vs $26.00 and try to make a big deal out of it. We're only talking about 900 thousand gallons, $3.24 vs $23.4 million dollars total cost. That's only 7.22 times as much. Cheese whiz...

The expression of these views aren't an example of a human brain on crack. They're the expression of a human brain on 'save the planetitis', essentially Marxism. What a wonderful filter for the human brain Marxism is. /s

5 posted on 07/03/2012 9:03:01 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: kingattax

Navy Takes Biofuels Campaign Into Uncharted Waters
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2011/January/Pages/NavyTakesBiofuelsIntoUnchartedWaters.aspx

Since 2006, the Defense Logistics Agency has procured more than 36 million gallons of ethanol-and-petroleum blends for the military. The Navy in September ordered an additional 150,000 gallons of algae-based fuel from San Francisco company Solazyme. The new agreement is seven times the size of the initial 20,000-gallon contract awarded last year. The Navy is paying big bucks for these fuels.

The service consumes an average of 1.2 billion gallons of petroleum each year at a cost of $3 billion — about $2.50 per gallon. The service paid Solazyme $8.5 million to provide just 20,000 gallons of algae-based fuel —

$425 per gallon.

At that rate, it would cost the Navy some $142.8 billion for the 8 million barrels of biofuel needed to meet its 2020 goal.

Camelina-based fuel is a bit cheaper but still more expensive than petroleum. In September 2009 the DLA’s defense energy support center paid Montana’s Sustainable Oils $2.7 million for 40,000 gallons of camelina-based fuel. That comes to about $67.50 per gallon.


6 posted on 07/03/2012 9:03:33 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: mortal19440

I wonder how long it will take for stories to start appearing about these ships suddenly needing emergency engine overhauls?


7 posted on 07/03/2012 9:12:05 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Timber Rattler

Not sure, biodiesel from soybeans has good lubricity, and works really well. It’s not cost effective though.


8 posted on 07/03/2012 9:16:17 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: mortal19440
Actually, I do know that alcohol burns much cleaner in engines and was what Henry Ford had originally designed his cars to use. Petroleum is good, but definitely a lower tech and quality fuel.
9 posted on 07/03/2012 9:19:58 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: mortal19440

That’s probably one of the things the fleet is collecting data for.


10 posted on 07/03/2012 9:21:54 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: kingattax

No better way to find out if these biofuels are going to work, than trying it out in real-time.


11 posted on 07/03/2012 9:23:12 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: kingattax

I cannot fault the DOD for prudently looking for secure fuel sources. However, they fought a war against a German army that was powered in part by diesel made by converting coal to liquid fuels (CTL). This technology has been refined to the point that its break-even is less than $100/bbl equivalent. While fuels made from algae and alternatives are quaint, the difference in maturity of the process and the cost is night and day different from that based on proven CTL technologies.

Based on the other excursions this administration has made into “green energy”, this stinks of buying off the greens, and this just plain stinks when the waste is paid for by borrowing money from China.


12 posted on 07/03/2012 9:27:19 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: kingattax

Green Power?

overpriced, overhyped,oversubsidized?

what’s not to love?


13 posted on 07/03/2012 9:28:21 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: theBuckwheat

Key findings of the new study are that diesel fuel produced from coal:

Is economically viable when crude oil prices reach $95/bbl or $98/bbl for the recycle and poly-generation scenarios, respectively. This equates to diesel prices in the range of $2.70 to $2.80 per gallon of petroleum diesel.

from:
Updated U.S. Study Evaluates Coal to Liquids Economics (Green Car Congress Update)

http://www.americanfuelscoalition.com/2012/05/15/netl/


14 posted on 07/03/2012 9:30:51 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Timber Rattler

More than just the cost of the fuel (which is totally stupid) I worry more about some of the biofuel reaching its cloud point in a jet fighter at 40,000 feet and turning the thing into a lawn dart!


15 posted on 07/03/2012 9:31:26 AM PDT by WellyP (question!)
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To: kingattax
Rumored plan for the next generation "green" warship. It is totally wind powered and uses NO oil at all!


16 posted on 07/03/2012 9:44:37 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: kingattax

First Obama cuts the budget of the military, then the military pisses away that budgeted money buying fuel that costs ten times what regular fuel costs.

Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

This country is turning into a looney bin.


17 posted on 07/03/2012 9:46:16 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: nascarnation
Correct. One of the reasons the Germans and Japanese build such high quality automotive engines is what they learned in the waning days of World War II when petroleum wasn't available.

Both Hitler's and Tojo's war machines basically ran the last six months of the war on biodeisel, wood alcohol or whatever else they could find. What little petroleum was available was reserved only for high-end applications like aviation.

An acquaintance of mine with more money than sense told me that, rather than replacing a failed oil pump in his Honda Accord, he just decided to dump an occasional quart of whatever lubricant he had into the crankcase (used motor oil, fat, grease, whatever) just to see how long the engine would last. He drove it for more than a month before one day, the engine just seized up and died.

18 posted on 07/03/2012 9:54:09 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: stuartcr

That’s fine. Do it in a 10-50K diesel car or truck in the government fleet..

Not a billion dollar navel ship.


19 posted on 07/03/2012 9:59:46 AM PDT by cableguymn
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To: cableguymn

Or just make it an ‘individual mandate’ for leftard’s vehicles and boats in Pelosi’s district.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 10:04:01 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: cableguymn

Probably wouldn’t come up with the required data, besides, if they’re going to spend that much, they should do it on active vessels, not something tied up to the pier.


21 posted on 07/03/2012 10:11:02 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: kingattax

It is time to start lopping off heads.


22 posted on 07/03/2012 11:16:53 AM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: kingattax

We are lucky Obama (the smartest president EVER!) didn’t think of saving Solyndra by demanding the military put Solyndra solar panels on the F-22 and the newest Virginia-class attack submarines.


23 posted on 07/03/2012 11:31:59 AM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: kingattax
Here's some info on Solazyme:Source.

As usual with the Chicago mob, follow the money.

24 posted on 07/03/2012 12:08:13 PM PDT by upchuck (FACEBOOK... Share pointless stuff with friends you don't know. Beg for intrusion into your life.)
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To: kingattax

I guess the military has to do whatever Obama orders, even if it kills them just as we all have to do whatever he orders in health care even if it kills us. This is what it is like to have an inbred royal in power.


25 posted on 07/03/2012 12:14:45 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: kingattax

As a green alternative, this experiment is a disaster.

As a military retiree, I am, however, interested that our defense machine can still operate if for some reason our access to petroleum became limited.

I’m not real sure what doomsday scenario would call for it, but if in that scenario we’re down to seeds and garbage to run our ships, then I’m glad we’ve figured out how to make our ships run on seeds and garbage.


26 posted on 07/03/2012 12:48:52 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
That used to be what the Strategic Petroleum Reserve was allegedly for.
Now it's just another political re-election tool.
(”we'll release this fuel to lower gas prices!”)
27 posted on 07/03/2012 12:57:26 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: stuartcr

There’s already enough data to know that “green fuel” works. There’s also enough data to know that “green fuel” is a waste of money due to the exorbitant cost.


28 posted on 07/03/2012 2:43:03 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: kingattax

Count me in the minority here — but I think the Navy is right. This isn’t about saving money or saving the whales, this is about national security. A huge percentage of the world’s oil comes from the Arabs, Russia and Venezuela. Ensuring that the Navy’s operations aren’t jeopardized by an embargo makes sense.


29 posted on 07/03/2012 4:30:51 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

Everything you just said would be a non issue if we drilled here for the oil we know is down there.

You have just provided a red Haring.


30 posted on 07/03/2012 7:27:52 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: Alter Kaker
i take it you didn't read post #12...
31 posted on 07/03/2012 7:36:17 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: cableguymn

Would that ship be the USS Umbilicus?


32 posted on 07/04/2012 7:22:59 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (If you could read my mind ... just count up the felonies!)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Ok. Let the navy know of your findings.


33 posted on 07/04/2012 8:29:40 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Ok. Let the navy know of your findings.


34 posted on 07/04/2012 8:29:50 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: Timber Rattler
I wonder how long it will take for stories to start appearing about these ships suddenly needing emergency engine overhauls?

They probably won't; Diesel engines are pretty dang robust. So much so that I am somewhat confused as to why these are costing so much... especially when you can look up on the internet people making their own.

35 posted on 07/04/2012 9:03:30 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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