Posted on 07/30/2012 7:49:02 PM PDT by sheikdetailfeather
Obama does not have the constitutional or legal authority to take these unconstitutional actions but he obviously DOES have the raw power as he has demonstrated by doing exactly that without meaningful opposition.
I hate to break the news to you, but, our liberty has been jeopardized for many, many years. Its too bad, that we have been asleep at the wheel.
Rubio and Jindal were both born in this country - which makes them as eligible as the aquatter-in-chief - maybe more so. They are after all - born as American citizens. I’m also sure that both of their parents became citizens. We don’t have any proof that zero was even born on American soil.
Our liberty has been comprised, jeopardized and traumatized for many, many years. Your argument doesn’t hold water. we’ve been on the slippery slope to tyranny at a rapid pace since 2009. Its like Woodrow Wilson and FDR on steroids.
Yeah, the Republican party has always tried to play nice with the Dems. Where has that gotten us? It has given us a bunch of mealy-mouthed RINOs afraid to grow a spine.
Your reply is so full of errors as to be impossible to answer fully, but in the main.....
..... you state that the Minor decision...
“...specifically stated that the constitution does not specifically define it...”
The text of the decision says that the Constitution does not say who shall be a CITIZEN (YOU added Natural Born to the text in an attempt to deceive the readers of your post and change the meaning of the quote, shame on ya troll), but goes on to say it was never doubted that children born in a country to parents who were its citizens were citizens also...... Now here’s the kicker.... These are the Natives or Natural Born Citizens....that is the money part of the quote.
Sorry pal it don’t get much plainer than that now does it?????
Born in a country to parents who are it’s citizens = Natural Born Citizen. Pretty easy isn’t it????????
In seeking to determine citizenship of Liz Minor the court defined the term Natural Born Citizen and it has been consistent in using this definition of NBC in all of it’s decisions since. All NBCs are citizens by definition.....the reverse is not always true.......
What the decision didn’t address, since the plaintif, suing over a citizen’s right to vote, was judged to be the gold standard of citizenship, a NBC, is what other circumstances of birth resulted in citizenship.....not Natural Born Citizenship, that was defined and is settled law, but simple born citizenship (no need to naturalize). It did note that various authorities were at odds as to who, besides a NBC, should be considered a citizen at birth.
A few years later, the court in WKA, held that persons born in the US of legally residing but foreign parents, were citizens ( note; NOT Natural Born, but simply born/citizens at birth.) by applying the 14th Amendment, and using the European custom/tradition of jus solis citizenship.
Besides WKA here are other laws and regulations that provide for citizenship at birth for circumstances of birth other than being a NBC.
Again from your post quoting Minor.....
“...At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens....”
Case closed. You lose by way of your own posted quote!
BTW Highlighting the text that you did reveals that your comprehension of the case and the issues involved totally escaped you. ( I suspect that you copied it somewhere from the post of another troll.)
Take a course in reading comprehension, and read the decision again, not the butchered copy you have, but the original text.......
“Cite the law that supports the little offense.”
Article II of the Constitution.
Natural Born
Naturalized
If you became a citizen at the exact moment of birth, you are a “Natural Born Citizen”
Otherwise, you are “Naturalized”
You are wrong in your interpretations, on nearly every count.
More to the point: Nobody with any authority agrees with you, either!
That is how the Founders wished to protect us, by making sure nobody who became a Citizen at some point AFTER being born could become President.
You are stating what you WANT the law to mean, but you are way off base on what it does mean.
Your interpretation is a crack-pot theory put together by people who have no authority, no understanding and an inability to learn.
BTW, John McCain was a CITIZEN AT BIRTH and therefore John McCain is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!
John Adams said, clearly, that Congress needed to do more to define Citizenship, and that statement was even AFTER Ratification.
You are wrong.
Our Founders only wanted to insure that any future President was a Citizen at the Moment of Birth.
Since Congress has said that you can be a Citizen at Birth if born on foreign soil, if born by a Citizen Parent(s) of certain age, and changed said requirement a few times, there are many Natural Born Citizens who were born on foreign soil.
CONGRESS has the power to decide Citizenship, PERIOD! All forms of Citizenship.
Congress could not declare that a citizen of a foreign country, at birth, was a “Natural Born Citizen” of the United States, retroactively, by statute. Congress is restrained by the Constitution from doing that.
However, Congress is free to determine the rules for “Natural Born Citizen” -— the rules for how to obtain BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP are within the powers of Congress. Birthright Citizenship is all “Natural Born Citizen” implies.
John Adams said, clearly, that Congress needed to do more to define Citizenship, and that statement was even AFTER Ratification.
You are wrong.
Our Founders only wanted to insure that any future President was a Citizen at the Moment of Birth.
Since Congress has said that you can be a Citizen at Birth if born on foreign soil, if born by a Citizen Parent(s) of certain age, and changed said requirement a few times, there are many Natural Born Citizens who were born on foreign soil.
CONGRESS has the power to decide Citizenship, PERIOD! All forms of Citizenship.
Congress could not declare that a citizen of a foreign country, at birth, was a “Natural Born Citizen” of the United States, retroactively, by statute. Congress is restrained by the Constitution from doing that.
However, Congress is free to determine the rules for “Natural Born Citizen” -— the rules for how to obtain BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP are within the powers of Congress. Birthright Citizenship is all “Natural Born Citizen” implies.
So sorry you didn’t go to the government’s own online site about statutory citizenship. You definitely would have learned something useful.
As for Sen. John McCain, he is not now, nor has he ever been, eligible to be President of the U.S.A. Children born in the Panama Canal Zone, only have statutory U.S. citizenship, nothing else. See the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone#Citizenship
For your general edification, since you obviously have NOT done research on this issue, is the following information about the Supreme Court of the United State’s precedent setting decision in Minor v. Happersett (1874). Oh, and please read before trying to refute it.
US SUPREME COURT PRECEDENT STATES THAT OBAMA IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE PRESIDENT.
Posted June 21, 2011
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/us-supreme-court-precedent-states-that-obama-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/
The title of this article is correct. After having completed a more thorough review of the relevant US Supreme Court cases discussing the Constitution’s natural-born citizen clause, I have discovered precedent which states that a natural-born citizen is a person born in the jurisdiction of the US to parents who are citizens. Read that again. I said precedent, not dicta. The precedent holds that Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.
Up until the publication of this report today, all discussion of the natural-born citizen issue (from both sides of the argument) agreed there had never been a precedent established by the US Supreme Court, and that the various cases which mentioned the clause did so in “dicta”.
Dicta are authoritative statements made by a court which are not binding legal precedent.
Black’s Law Dictionary defines “precedent” as a “rule of law established for the first time by a court for a particular type of case and thereafter referred to in deciding similar cases“.
Precedent that must be followed is known as binding precedent. Under the doctrine of stare decisis, a lower court must honor findings of law made by a higher court. On questions as to the meaning of federal law including the U.S. Constitution, statutes, and regulations, the U.S. Supreme Court’s precedents must be followed.
It can no longer be denied that there is controlling US Supreme Court precedent concerning the definition of a natural-born citizen according to Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution. I predict satori will overcome those of you who have labored over this issue. This is not a remote obscure reading. It is, when revealed, a clear undeniable holding and binding precedent established by the highest Court of our nation which specifically defines an Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen as a person born in the US to parents who are citizens.
Therefore, Obama – according to US Supreme Court precedent – is not eligible to be President.
PRECEDENT ESTABLISHED BY MINOR V. HAPPERSETT
The direct US Supreme Court precedent is stated in Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875). Furthermore, the precedent stated in Minor is consistent with other US Supreme Court cases – both before and after Minor – which discuss the natural born citizen issue. While that part of the holding in Minor regarding woman’s suffrage was superseded by the 19th Amendment - which Constitutionally established a woman’s right to vote – the rest of the case is good law. [UPDATED Dec. 15, 2011 - The voting rights issue was not superseded by the 19th Amendment, and it remains good law today. Please see JUSTIA.COM SURGICALLY REMOVED “MINOR v HAPPERSETT” FROM 25 SUPREME COURT OPINIONS IN RUN UP TO ’08 ELECTION. ]And the remaining precedent stated regarding the definition of “natural-born citizen” – with regard to Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution – is still binding upon all lower courts.
Therefore, lower court decisions – such as the holding in Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana – which have misconstrued the US Supreme Court’s holding in Minor v. Happersett are wrong. Below, we will review what the Indiana Court of Appeals had to say and explain why they got it wrong. But first we must revisit Minor v. Happersett.
THE SUPREME COURT IN MINOR V. HAPPERSETT DIRECTLY CONSTRUED THE US CONSTITUTION’S ARTICLE 2 SECTION 1 NATURAL BORN CITIZEN CLAUSE
Before revisiting Minor, we must revisit Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) to review a clearly erroneous statement made by Justice Gray concerning the prior holding in the Minor case:
“In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: ‘The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.’ “ (Wong Kim Ark at 655.)
This unfortunate remark by Justice Gray contains a clearly erroneous statement. The Supreme Court in Minor did not construe the 14th Amendment as to the issue of citizenship. Gray is absolutely wrong. The Court in Minor construed Article 2 Section 1, not the 14th Amendment. For over a century, it has been wrongly assumed that the Court in Minor did construe the 14th Amendment, and that the holding of Minor was later superseded by Wong Kim Ark. This is not correct.
A more careful reading of the Supreme Court’s opinion in Minor makes it clear that it did not construe the 14th Amendment with regard to the citizenship of the woman who wished to vote. The question presented was whether, since the adoption of the 14th Amendment, women had gained the right to vote. The Supreme Court in Minor held that nowhere in the Constitution, including the 14th Amendment, was anyone, man or woman, granted a right to vote. And it was only this part of the Minor case which was superseded by the 19th Amendment.
The other issue decided by the Court in Minor required the Supreme Court to determine if the woman was, in fact, a US citizen. As to this determination, the Court did not construe the 14th Amendment. In fact, the Court specifically avoided construing the 14th Amendment with regard to her citizenship. Instead, the Supreme Court in Minor chose to construe Article 2 Section 1:
“There is no doubt that women may be citizens. They are persons, and by the fourteenth amendment ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof ‘ are expressly declared to be ‘citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.’ But, in our opinion, it did not need this amendment to give them that position …
“The fourteenth amendment did not affect the citizenship of women any more than it did of men. In this particular, therefore, the rights of Mrs. Minor do not depend upon the amendment. She has always been a citizen from her birth, and entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizenship. The amendment prohibited the State, of which she is a citizen, from abridging any of her privileges and immunities as a citizen of the United States; but it did not confer citizenship on her. That she had before its adoption. If the right of suffrage is one of the necessary privileges of a citizen of the United States, then the constitution and laws of Missouri confining it to men are in violation of the Constitution of the United States, as amended, and consequently void. The direct question is, therefore, presented whether all citizens are necessarily voters. (Emphasis added.)
There you have it. The Court stops short of construing the 14th Amendment as to whether the woman in question was a US citizen. The Court made a certain, direct determination that Mrs. Minor was a US citizen before the adoption of the 14th Amendment and that she did not need the 14th Amendment to be a US citizen.
The Court then, having determined that she was a US citizen, avoided any construction of the 14th Amendment as to her citizenship status. Therefore, the holding in Minor is in no way superseded by Wong Kim Ark.
The Court in Minor went on to decide the issue of whether citizens are granted a right to vote by the Constitution, holding that it did not. Again, this part of the holding was superseded by the 19th Amendment, but the determination that Mrs. Minor was a “natural-born citizen” is still controlling precedent.
Since the Court in Minor specifically avoided construing the 14th Amendment as to citizenship, it is clear that Justice Gray’s statement – concerning the citizenship passage by Justice Waite in Minor – was clearly erroneous. The Supreme Court in Minor chose to construe Article 2 Section 1 instead of the 14th Amendment. As such, Minor is the only US Supreme Court case which has directly construed the Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen clause. Therefore, Minor’s construction below creates binding legal precedent:
“Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides that ‘no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,‘ and that Congress shall have power ‘to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.’ Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.
“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.“ (Emphasis added.)
Whether the holding here was influenced by Vattel is not truly important. Sure, it looks just like Vattel’s definition, but Vattel does not make legal precedent – the US Supreme Court does. All that matters here is what the Supreme court held. So we must carefully examine the actual words stated by the Supreme Court. We must not allow ourselves to be guided by what the Supreme Court did not say. What the Court actually said is what makes law.
In the above passage, the Court noted that Mrs. Minor was born in the US to parents who were citizens. The Court stated that such persons were “natural-born citizens”. The Court also stated – as to such persons – that their “citizenship” was never in doubt.
By recognizing Mrs. Minor as a member of the class of persons who were natural-born citizens, they established her citizenship. Establishing her citizenship was required before they could get to the issue of whether she had the right to vote. In doing so, the Court in Minor directly construed Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution.
The Court also noted that some authorities include as “citizens” those born in the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of the parents. The Court refers to these people as a different “class”. The Court in Minor refused to comment on the “citizenship” of such persons since Mrs. Minor was not in that class. They didn’t need to reach the 14th Amendment to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen since the Court previously established that she was a “natural-born citizen”. Read the following again:
“It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.“
This class is specifically defined as “natural-born citizens” by the Court. The other class – those born in the US without citizen “parents” – may or may not be “citizens”. But the Minor Court never suggested that this other class might also be natural-born citizens.
It’s quite the opposite. The Minor Court makes clear that this class are not Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizens. If this other class were natural-born there would be no doubt as to their citizenship.
The Minor Court refrained from making a “citizenship” determination as to that class, but the Court did note that they were a different class. Later, in 1898, the Court in Wong Kim Ark took the question on directly as to who is a citizen under the 14th Amendment, but that case did not directly construe Article 2 Section 1, whereas Minor did.
In order to avoid construing the 14th Amendment, the Court in Minor had to define those who fit into the class of “natural-born citizens”. Mrs. Minor fit into that class. Mr. Obama does not.
This is so very evident by the fact that the Minor Court specifically states that the “citizenship” of those who have non-citizen parents was historically subject to doubt. Whether the 14th Amendment nullified those doubts was irrelevant to the Court in Minor, since Mrs. Minor was a natural-born citizen.
The 14th Amendment specifically confers only “citizenship”. In Minor, the US Supreme Court directly recognized that natural-born citizens were a class of citizens who did not need the 14th Amendment to establish citizenship. The class of natural-born citizens was perfectly defined in the Minor case.
Therefore, we have a direct determination by the US Supreme Court which defines a natural-born citizen as a person born in the US to parents who are citizens. The citizenship of this class has never been in doubt. The citizenship of the other class was in doubt. But even if that doubt was erased – as to their citizenship – that they are not natural-born citizens was established as precedent by the Supreme Court in Minor. In order for that precedent to be reversed, one of two things are necessary:
- a Constitutional amendment which specifically defines “natural-born Citizen” more inclusively than Minor did , or;
- a Supreme Court case which overrules the definition of natural-born citizen in the Minor case
We have neither.
Minor was decided seven years after the adoption of the 14th Amendment. The Supreme Court in Minor did not consider anyone but those born of citizen parents on US soil to be natural-born citizens. Later, in Wong Kim Ark, the Supreme Court stated that persons born on US soil to (some) alien parents were “citizens”, but that case specifically construed only the 14th Amendment.
Read again Justice Gray’s statement as to Minor, “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said…“ Nope. Not true. Gray was wrong in that Justice Waite did not construe the 14th Amendment in the quoted passage. Chief Justice Waite construed Article 2 Section 1. Whereas, Justice Gray construed the 14th Amendment. Therefore, the two cases are not in conflict.
ANKENY V. GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF INDIANA
The Minor case has been severely misconstrued in the Ankeny opinion issued by the Indiana Court of Appeals. That court quoted Minor’s natural-born citizen language, then stated:
“Thus, the Court left open the issue of whether a person who is born within the United States of alien parents is considered a natural born citizen.”
False. The Minor Court did not leave that question open. Nowhere in the Minor opinion does it state that the class of persons who are natural-born citizens is an open question. The Ankeny Court has it backwards.
The Supreme Court in Minor stated that the “citizenship” of persons who were not natural born citizens was an open question.
That is the most important sentence I’ve ever written at this blog. So please read it again.
The “citizenship” of those born to non-citizen parents was a question that the Minor Court avoided. But they avoided that question by directly construing Article 2 Section 1. In doing so, the Supreme Court in Minor defined the class of persons who were born in the US to citizen parents as “natural-born citizens”.
Since Minor, no Amendment has been adopted which changes that definition, and no other Supreme Court case has directly construed Article 2 Section 1.
The Supreme Court in Wong Kim Ark only construed the question of who was a “citizen” under the 14th Amendment, it did not construe Article 2 Section 1. Therefore, Minor and Wong Kim Ark do not compete with each other at all. Minor is the standing precedent for construction of the natural-born citizen clause in Article 2 Section 1, and Wong Kim Ark is the standing precedent as to “citizenship” under the 14th Amendment.
WONG KIM ARK SPECIFICALLY DEFERRED TO PRIOR PRECEDENT REGARDING THE DEFINITION OF NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
That the majority opinion in Wong Kim Ark limited its holding strictly to the issue of 14th Amendment citizenship – and did not make any new determination as to Article 2 Section 1 – is evident from the following statement by Gray regarding the dissent by Justice Curtis in the Supreme Court’s earlier ruling in Dred Scott v. Sandford:
“In Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) 19 How. 393, Mr. Justice Curtis said:
‘The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, ‘a natural-born citizen.’ It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.’
19 How. 60 U. S. 576. And, to this extent, no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges.”
At first glance, Gray’s reliance upon the dissent’s passage in the Dred Scott case would appear to contradict everything I have written above. But it doesn’t. It actually confirms my analysis.
Justice Gray chooses his words carefully and so we must examine them carefully. Note where Gray says, “And, to this extent, no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges.” Well, if we are talking only about “citizenship”, then – to this extent – Justice Gray is correct. But if we are talking about the definition of a “natural-born citizen”, then Gray is grossly mistaken.
The Dred Scott majority may not have expressed a different opinion as to “citizenship”, but the majority’s definition of a natural-born citizen is vastly different than that of Justice Curtis in his dissent. The majority opinion in Dred Scott, citing Vattel directly, stated:
“The citizens are the members of the civil society, bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or natural-born citizens are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights.”
Again:
“I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen, for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners who are permitted to settle and stay in the country.”
Vattel, Book 1, cap. 19, p. 101.
From the views here expressed, and they seem to be unexceptionable…”
Unexceptionable is defined as; ” not open to any objection or criticism.” The Supreme Court majority, in the Dred Scott case, clearly states that a natural-born citizen is a person born in the US to parents who are citizens. Therefore, Justice Gray’s reliance upon the dissent in the Dred Scott case is strictly limited to its discussion of “citizenship” by Gray’s very choice of the words, “to this extent”.
Since Gray stated that none of the other justices in the Dred Scott case expressed a different opinion than Curtis did in his dissent, it is obvious that Gray’s statement only applies to general citizenship, and not to the definition of those who fall into the class of natural-born citizens. The majority in Dred Scott did, in fact, express a completely different opinion than Curtis on the issue of who was an Article 2 Section 1 natural-born citizen.
Gray’s use of the words, “to this extent” – with regard to the dissent by Curtis – indicates that the extent to which the holding in Wong Kim Ark applies is to the definition of “citizenship”, not to the definition of who is a natural-born citizen eligible to be President. The precedent stated by the Court in Minor still stands to this day.
THE US SUPREME COURT DEFINITION OF PRECEDENT
In 1996, the US Supreme Court’s majority opinion by Justice Breyer in Ogilvie Et Al., Minors v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996), stated that when the Court discusses a certain “…reason as an ‘independent’ ground in support of our decision”, then that reasoning is not simply dictum:
“Although we gave other reasons for our holding in Schleier as well, we explicitly labeled this reason an ‘independent’ ground in support of our decision, id., at 334. We cannot accept petitioners’ claim that it was simply a dictum.”
The Supreme Court in Minor specifically construed Article 2 Section 1 by defining – as natural-born citizens – those persons born in the US to parents who were citizens.
Again, the Supreme Court specifically avoided the 14th Amendment, by specifically construing Article 2 Section 1.
In order to determine whether Mrs. Minor had the right to vote, the Court first needed to determine if she was a US citizen. They determined that she was a citizen because she was in the class of “natural-born citizens”. And, in doing so, they made it clear that persons born of non-citizen parents were not natural-born citizens.
The Court left open the question of whether those born of non-citizen parents were “citizens”. But the Court did not leave open their specific construction of Article 2 Section 1. Their definition of a “natural-born citizen” was the core reason they found Mrs. Minor to be a citizen. Therefore, the Minor Court established binding precedent as follows:
“…[A]ll children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners...”
Please also note that the Court here makes specific reference to both aliens and foreigners as distinguished from natural-born citizens. Aliens are just that, aliens. They are not citizens. But we have always had many foreigners in this country who were citizens. Those who came here from foreign lands were foreigners naturalized as citizens. Some who were born in the US with dual citizenship – like Obama – were also citizens of the nation of their parents. These are citizens, but also foreigners. The Court in Minor made the careful distinction that a natural-born citizen is not an alien or a foreigner.
CITIZENS MAY BE BORN OR NATURALIZED
A common misconception of those who argue in favor of Obama’s eligibility is that if one is, at the time of their birth, a US citizen, then that person is also a natural-born citizen. False. This was unequivocally established by the majority holding in Minor, which states:
“Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it providesthat ‘no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,’and that Congress shall have power ‘to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.’ Thus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.”
Again, at first glance this appears to provide a neat little soundbite for Obama supporters. But it doesn’t. The quote above is taken out of context. The Court’s opinion goes on to state:
“Under the power to adopt a uniform system of naturalization Congress, as early as 1790, provided…that the children of citizens of the United States that might be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, should be considered as natural-born citizens. These provisions thus enacted have, in substance, been retained in all the naturalization laws adopted since.”
Here, the Minor Court cites the first naturalization act of 1790 to the effect that persons born of US citizen parents – outside the jurisdiction of the US – are “considered as natural-born citizens”. So, here we can see that while the Minor Court only recognizes two paths to citizenship, birth and naturalization… it is clear that some persons who, at the time of their birth, are US citizens, require naturalization for such status.
So, it’s clear that while there are only two paths to US citizenship, birth and naturalization, those two paths sometimes merge. But naturalized citizens are not eligible to be President. (The Minor Court failed to mention that the words “natural-born” were repealed from the naturalization act of 1795.)
Additionally, the current US Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual, at “7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency“, comments on the 1790 act as follows:
“This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.”
This is most likely because the statute did not actually deem such a person to be a natural-born citizen, the act simply stated that such a person was to be “considered as” a natural-born citizen.
The Minor Court also noted that the “substance” of the 1790 act, which granted US citizenship at birth via naturalization, had remained as law up until 1875 when the Minor case was decided. So, clearly, while citizens may either be born or naturalized, some born citizens are simultaneously naturalized at birth. Naturalized citizens are not natural-born citizens. Therefore, they are not eligible to be President.
I am not arguing that Obama was naturalized. But Minor does establish that not all “born citizens” are “natural-born”. Minor also gives an unequivocal definition of who fits into the class of natural-born citizens. Obama does not fit into that class. Born in the US to a citizen mother and a British/Kenyan father, Obama was born with dual nationality and dual allegiance, part US citizen, part foreigner. Minor makes a clear distinction between natural-born citizens and aliens or foreigners.
No Constitutional amendment supersedes Minor by defining natural-born citizen in a more inclusive way. No US Supreme Court case has overruled it. Justice Gray’s statement that the Court in Minor construed the 14th Amendment in the passage quoted is wrong. The Court in Minor directly construed Article 2 Section 1 while directly avoiding construction of the 14th Amendment.
The Supreme Court in Wong Kim Ark directly construed the 14th Amendment and specifically avoided construction of Article 2 Section 1. The two cases are not in contradiction. They are consistent.
Wong Kim Ark is specifically limited to determining who is a citizen under the 14th Amendment.
Minor is specifically limited to determining who is a US citizen, natural-born.
According to the US Supreme Court precedent established by Minor, Obama is not eligible to the office of President of the United States.
Leo C. Donofrio, Esq.
Sorry to break the news to you, but Rubio is one of those mealy-mouthed Rinos you disparage.
Jindal is still trying to figure out how to be a governor.
Neither man is eligible. Too bad, so sad.
Furthermore, just because everything seems to going to Hell in a hand basket, doesn’t mean we emulate the Democratic Party.
A great many Democrats committed fraud, maybe even treason, getting an ineligible and communist BHO2 into the White House. He’s trashing the nation, and we must get him out of there, but we should do it legally and cleanly.
And don’t think I haven’t seriously thought about what I would do in the event of an insurrection. I’m really pissed at the whole embroglio.
” Uh... it was Clinton & Republicans in Congress who reformed it the first time and put in the work requirements that Obama’s undone.”
Obama hasn’t “undone” any work requirements. Quit spouting nonsense.
Great idea, Newt! Why put fears to rest with your VP choice? Come on out of that closet.
You GOPe types should make the election a two front war against the demonrat party on one side and against the Constitutionalists on the other and choose Rubio or Jindal for VP.
GOPe against the world!
-PJ
As for me a a lot of my veteran friends, your opinion is worthless and we will refuse to vote for any ticket that has a person on it that is NOT a Natural Born Citizen which means a person born with 2 American citizen parents and born in the United States.
All you have to do is use some common sense to understand that our Founding Fathers put a grandfather clause in the Constitution because none of them had American citizen parents at the time of their birth. They did all become citizens though when the Constitution was ratified, so more than being a citizen was required.
Sen McCain, Mr. obama, Sen Rubio, and Gov jindel and not Natural Born Citizens and are NOT eligible under the Constitution to be President.
You can spout all the liberal nonsense you want to but, the facts don’t change.
You are presumptuous, in your assumption that I am a “liberal” on any issue.
You are a misguided “conservative” who has fallen for a crackpot legal theory which NOBODY of any stature, on the Right, shares with you.
I am a Veteran too, so you are also a bit defensive to bring up that point, and also VERY arrogant to assume that I do not hold the SAME status as YOU in that regard.
You are wrong, you look foolish, you have NOBODY of any stature on your side, and you should find another argument if you don't wish to come off like a raving loon.
Natural Born Citizen means CITIZEN AT BIRTH and that is all it has EVER meant. (However, Congress does have the duty and the right to define the requirements for Citizenship, at any time.)
Also, what I am stating is not at odds, at all, with what Paine said.
Show me that Rubio is a Citizen of ANY other country but the United States and you might have a small, minor point of agreement with Thomas Paine, even though your biased interpretation of his statement is not at all controlling in the matter at hand.
That is a FACT!
No Judge
No Elected Official
No Immigration Attorney
No Historian
Not Limbaugh
Not Levin
Not Hannity
Not Jay Sekulow
Not the American Center for Law and Justice
Not the Heritage Foundation
Not Landmark Legal Foundation
You can copy and paste all you want, but the law is about OPINIONS and NOBODY with any stature agrees with you.
You are alone.
You are wrong.
Natural Born Citizen requires two American citizen parents at birth and to be born on American soil. Being a citizen is NOT enough to be a Natural Born Citizen as has been proven by the SCOTUS opinions previously published.
I never said anything about your service or lack of service. Don’t put words in my mouth. I said that a lot of my veteran friends will not vote for anyone that is not eligible under the Constitution and that includes obama, rubio, and jindel.
You may not be a liberal, but you sure try to shove their talking points down everyone else’s throat. I’m not buying you BS and will not respond to your wild opinions again.
I know what the Constitution says and to be President requires a higher standard than just being a citizen.
Have a good day and learn some history!!
I never said anything about your service or lack of service. Don’t put words in my mouth. I said that a lot of my veteran friends will not vote for anyone that is not eligible under the Constitution and that includes obama, rubio, and jindel.
“You may not be a liberal, but you sure try to shove their talking points down everyone else’s throat. I’m not buying you BS and will not respond to your wild opinions again.”
“I know what the Constitution says and to be President requires a higher standard than just being a citizen.”
Agreed, you can not be a NATURALIZED Citizen and become President. You must be a Citizen at the moment of birth, which is the very definition of Natural Born Citizen.
“Have a good day and learn some history!!”
Am I right, you are pathetically wrong and unsupported by any existing legal authority.
You may also have a good day. History is on my side.
So was John Adams, your single cite. So we're 1-1, right? Are there other contemporaries of ratification whose words survive, or do we have to rely on the words of 14th amendment writers from 100 years later?
It's not about sole citizenship, it's about being raised by citizens to embrace the nationality of the home country. It's why the Preamble says "We the People of the United States, in Order to... secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
As I've said many times, the Preamble defines who the Natural born Citizens are. It logically flows from the Preamble.
"We the People" are citizens of the United States. "Our Posterity" are the natural born who follow -- the children of the People. The Constitution was "ordained and established" to "secure... Liberty" to its citizens and their children.
Whom else was the Constitution established to secure, if not the citizen People and their citizen children?
How else would the Founders attempt to secure the United States of America if not by limiting the qualifications for the highest office to the People and their Posterity that was the reason for establishing the Constitution in the first place?
That language seems plain enough to me. The whole Constitution must be read within the context of the purpose as stated by the Framers in the Preamble: the Constitution was framed specifically to ensure the country to its people and their children - the natural born of the country.
If you are an alien who becomes a naturalized citizen, you become one of We the People, and then your children that follow become the nation's posterity.
Natural-born citizens are the nation's "posterity" that the Constitution was ordained and established to secure.
...your biased interpretation of his statement is not at all controlling in the matter at hand.
Regarding controlling the matter at hand, it is interesting that Thomas Jefferson was not a Framer either (he was in France at the time), but his letter to the Danbury Baptist Minister's Association of 1801 is considered controlling on the matter of separation of church and state, even though he wrote it 12 years after ratification.
I don't think I have a biased interpretation of Paine's words. He refers to "half a foreigner." What do you think "half a foreigner" means? I think it means a person who has one parent who is a citizen and one parent who is not. Can you think of a different interpretation. Please show me how my interpretation is biased. Paine further writes that this person (foreigner or half a foreigner) is "never in full natural or political connection with the country." Why do you think he says that? Is it because the person is raised by a parent who is a citizen of another country, or is it something else? Again, please show me where my interpretation of Paine's writing is biased.
-PJ
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