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Flagler Sheriff Wants Your Gun in Exchange for a $50 Gift Card; Opponents Frown(FL)
flaglerlive.com ^ | 31 July, 2012 | NA

Posted on 08/01/2012 4:57:20 AM PDT by marktwain

The Flagler County Sheriff’s Office will hold the county’s first gun buy back on Aug. 11, from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Town Center.

“This is a no questions asked–amnesty opportunity for anyone to turn in unwanted, operational firearms,” Fleming said.

Individuals will receive a $50 gift card for each firearm turned in, up to a maximum of three. Additional guns will be accepted, but gift cards will be limited to three, while supplies last. Other weapons, such as knives, swords, brass knuckles, etc., will also be accepted.

The program is being funded through a $7,000 crime prevention grant award by the Flagler County Commission. Businesses wishing to donate gift cards should contact Capt. Lynne Catoggio at (386) 586-4805.

Those wishing to turn in their guns should drive to the north side of Central Park at Town Center. A drive-through station will be set up and deputies will come to the vehicles. Guns should be unloaded and stored in the trunk area or bed area of trucks. Participants must not leave their vehicles.

For those who wish to discard guns but are unable to drive to the site, deputies will come to your home during this period and pick up the weapons. Arrangements may be made by calling (386) 313-4911.

The proposal drew skeptical responses from Fleming’s opponents in the sheriff’s race. Fleming is running for re-election in the Aug. 14 primary.

“Gun buy-back programs may be popular in communities and are designed to give the impression that law enforcement is doing something about illegal guns,” John Pollinger, one of Fleming’s two Republican opponents, said. “No one with the intent on committing a crime while armed is going to surrender that firearm in exchange for a gift card. In addition, buy-pack programs such as these encourage citizens to otherwise keep firearms they no longer want or need in the hopes in the future, government is going to provide some type of compensation or reward in exchange. I would rather see the $7,000.00 in taxpayer money used for educational and diversionary programs for the youth in Flagler County to discourage them from obtaining any illegal gun in the first place.”

To Karl Tozzi, one of two Democrats running against Fleming, the program is the program is “an excellent way of getting weapons off the street.”

“The only problem I see,” Tozzi said, “is that we should not cap the quantity of guns per person nor should we have a cap on the number of funds we are allocated to take the weapons of the street. If you are going to start a program like this for the first time in our county, we must have adequate funds to assure that the program works and gets all the guns possible in one fell swoop. We certainly don’t want people walking away with unsold guns in there trunks because we ran out of gift certificates.”

All four of Fleming’s opponents were given the chance to address the buy-back program.

“This is the first time we have offered a gun buy back in Flagler County and I think it will prove to be a valuable service to our residents,” Fleming said. “The more guns we take out of the community, the less opportunity there is that one of those may be used in a crime I encourage folks to take advantage of this opportunity.”

As an additional service, Sheriff Fleming has ordered a prescription drug take back during this event. Gift cards will not be distributed, but residents may drive through the appropriate station where unwanted prescription drugs will be accepted. Needles in Sharps Containers will also be accepted as part of this operation.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; flagler; turnin
This sounds like a good opportunity to pick up some decent guns. It is very difficult to purchase any working gun for $50. Many of the guns turned in at these programs are nice older .22 rifles and shotguns that a widow no longer has use for and does not understand how much they are worth. If I were there, I would be nearby with a sign saying "Cash for guns".

Private sales and purchases for cash are perfectly legal in Florida, as they are in most states.

1 posted on 08/01/2012 4:57:34 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

>> unwanted, operational firearms

That right there is the mother of all oxymorons.


2 posted on 08/01/2012 4:58:44 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: marktwain
That is dangerous to do because if you are in possession of a stolen gun, you go to jail, not the person who sold it, gave it, or lent to you. Granted, the police will still want to be talking to anyone in the chain of custody.
3 posted on 08/01/2012 5:02:15 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: marktwain

Make it $5000 and I’ll buy a few throw-downs and bring them down there!


4 posted on 08/01/2012 5:03:57 AM PDT by meyer (It's 1860 all over again - the taxpayer is the new "N" word)
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To: marktwain

>> “The only problem I see,” [Karl Tozzi, one of two Democrats running against Fleming] said, “is that we should not...have a cap on the number of funds we are allocated to take the weapons of the street.”

ROFLMAO! Is that a perfect example of how ‘rats think about government money, or what? No cap on outgoing funds! We’ll run the printing presses all NIGHT if need be!


5 posted on 08/01/2012 5:04:28 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: marktwain

My grandfather’s 12 gauge is worth more than a $50 gift card. It’s worth more than any monetary gift to me.


6 posted on 08/01/2012 5:06:36 AM PDT by Conservative_Jedi (Give me Liberty or give me Death!!)
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To: marktwain

Hey sheriff, I’ll give you 50 bucks for that .45 you got there on your hip.


7 posted on 08/01/2012 5:16:00 AM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Nervous Tick

That depends on what the manufacturer’s definition of “operational” was - something like a Jennings .380 is likely to blow up in your hand if you fire it. :P I wouldn’t want one. :P


8 posted on 08/01/2012 5:16:54 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: marktwain

This doesn’t sound right?It looks like they will destroy these working firearms to keep them out of circulation.Every time a working firearm is destroyed,think of it as one of your RIGHTS being rescinded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


9 posted on 08/01/2012 5:21:30 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: Clay Moore
Hey sheriff, I’ll give you 50 bucks for that .45 you got there on your hip.

LOL! Darn! You beat me to it!

10 posted on 08/01/2012 5:24:33 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as Created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: mazda77; All
“That is dangerous to do because if you are in possession of a stolen gun, you go to jail, not the person who sold it, gave it, or lent to you. Granted, the police will still want to be talking to anyone in the chain of custody.”

I believe that you are mistaken. If the gun was found to be stolen, you would be required to return it. I have never seen anyone prosecuted for mere possession of a gun that turned out to have been stolen, when they otherwise bought it legally. How could you know it was stolen or not?

I would have not had any problems with buying guns on the free market.

Many of the pre-1968 rifles and shotguns do not even have serial numbers.

11 posted on 08/01/2012 5:36:18 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Nervous Tick
“mother of all oxymorons”

Oh I don't know about that. I have an Omega .22 Saturday night special from the 1960s. It shoots, but if I lived near Flagler County or was viviting Flagler County, I would make a point of sell that little POS to the Sheriff. Fifty bucks? $50.00? Maybe not. Never mind.

12 posted on 08/01/2012 5:44:12 AM PDT by Tupelo (TeaPartier ..... but no longer a Republican)
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To: marktwain

Do they take any gun?

I’m sure I could make several crude zip guns in my garage for a lot less than $50 each, and I doubt anyone is going to want to test them to make sure they’re “operational”.


13 posted on 08/01/2012 5:48:23 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: marktwain

In the state of Florida, if you are in POSSESSION of a stolen or serial removed gun, you are liable. This was covered with great emphasis in the CCW class I attended.

What you do is to collect the serial number off the gun and ask to have the numbers run before finalizing the deal. Simple as that. Every officer has access to the database on his mobile computer.

Rifles and shotguns I cannot answer to but handguns do have serials. I have a S&W 32 revolver manufactured in 1912 that has a serial. Any M1A/M14 has a serial.

The point was be careful and cover yourself. If buying from an individual make sure you get an ID like a DL and then go to the police to have the serial checked.


14 posted on 08/01/2012 5:48:55 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: marktwain

They might as well put up a big sign - Notice to all burglars, these pansies will be unarmed upon exiting the parking lot and most will be headed directly to their unsecured residences.


15 posted on 08/01/2012 6:06:05 AM PDT by bgill
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To: marktwain

Shot someone with that gun last year?
Tired of hiding it in your closet?
Well Hell Bell’s give it to the Police and get a gift card!


16 posted on 08/01/2012 6:08:24 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: marktwain
Someone should be their to collect the money to use for a shooting/safety program for the kids. I'm pretty sure that would be more effective.
17 posted on 08/01/2012 6:10:34 AM PDT by GranTorino (Bloody Lips Save Ships.)
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To: marktwain

(“The only problem I see,” Tozzi said, “is that we should not cap the quantity of guns per person nor should we have a cap on the number of funds we are allocated to take the weapons of the street. )

This is the problem you see? Nothing else?
Going through life stupid must be a bitch.......


18 posted on 08/01/2012 6:10:49 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: marktwain

On another note. Marines make deal for Colt 1911’s.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28/marines-pay-22m-to-go-back-to-their-old-guns-colt-45-caliber-pistols/?intcmp=obnetwork


19 posted on 08/01/2012 6:22:16 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: mazda77; All

Mazda77 wrote:

In the state of Florida, if you are in POSSESSION of a stolen or serial removed gun, you are liable. This was covered with great emphasis in the CCW class I attended.

Marktwain replies:

Certainly, if you are in possession of a firearm whose serial number has been removed, you have legal problems.

This is not the case if you are in possession of a firearm that you obtained under the reasonable belief that it was legal to do so.

I have taught CCW classes for over 15 years, and it is not unusual for people to mistakenly put out misinformed opinion as if it were the law.

Here is some light on Florida law from a police officer forum:

“I work as an LEO in a low income area and have been dealing with a surge in bike thefts (not motorcycles) among other things recently. I’m looking to add another tool to my belt and start taking individuals who are ridding these bikes to jail. As we all know you can’t take someone to jail for a misdemeanor (not an exception) that does not occur in your presence (i.e. the original bike theft). Unfortunetely, the victims are claiming their bikes are only worth $150 (not that magic felony number). I’ve tried reading the 812 statues and can’t find any penalty for possession of stolen property. According to 812.022 the criteria appears to meet what I’m look for (but no penalty is listed). Maybe I need glasses, but if anyone could help it would be appreciated.”

http://forums.officer.com/t148911/

There is considerable discussion after this request, but it comes down to the fact that you cannot prosecute someone for merely possessing a legal object that they reasonably thought they obtained legally.


20 posted on 08/01/2012 6:33:45 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
"Sheriff Fleming is a veteran law enforcement officer with more than thirty six years of extensive law enforcement experience. A native of New York City, he began his law enforcement career in 1973 when he was appointed to the Little Ferry, New Jersey Police Department. In 1985 he was promoted to the rank of Detective Captain of the Investigation Division; and served as Little Ferry Police Chief for 14 years after being promoted to Chief of Police in 1987".

I suspected this before I started searching. We need to did a moat around New York and starve them to extinction.

21 posted on 08/01/2012 7:01:07 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: marktwain
"Sheriff Fleming is a veteran law enforcement officer with more than thirty six years of extensive law enforcement experience. A native of New York City, he began his law enforcement career in 1973 when he was appointed to the Little Ferry, New Jersey Police Department. In 1985 he was promoted to the rank of Detective Captain of the Investigation Division; and served as Little Ferry Police Chief for 14 years after being promoted to Chief of Police in 1987".

I suspected this before I started searching. We need to dig a moat around New York City and starve them to extinction.

22 posted on 08/01/2012 7:02:05 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Nervous Tick
unwanted, operational firearms
That right there is the mother of all oxymorons.

Ding, ding, ding! Free Republic Post of the Day!

23 posted on 08/01/2012 7:12:02 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: MamaTexan

“Hey sheriff, I’ll give you 50 bucks for that .45 you got there on your hip.” Na this WUSS probably uses a “9 Mil”.


24 posted on 08/01/2012 7:16:47 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: marktwain

I am just repeating what the CCW Instructor told us. Be it that his comments were directly related to his experience with the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office and since it is the largest shop, with five locations, he talks to a lot of officers. Maybe it was worse case scenario, but he was very pointed about it. He also mentioned something about the need for an attorney to straighten out the situation.

Take it for what it is worth.


25 posted on 08/01/2012 7:18:51 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: US Navy Vet
Na this WUSS probably uses a “9 Mil”.

LOL! Maybe....but for $50 bucks, I'll take it! :-)

26 posted on 08/01/2012 7:26:40 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as Created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: marktwain

I’m sorry, but this entire idea smacks of corruptability.
How exactly can a reasonable chain of custody be 100% guaranteed?
It cannot. I see an easy way for any LEO to pick up a few throw down weapons right there - and don’t say that it doesn’t happen.

That to the side, thank you for your explanation of GTB and how the magic number (little known) is applied here in Florida, but are you certain that firearms are not in an entirely separate category from other stolen items, GT or not?
I did not research this law so I am not asking as satire, I just do not know.
Thank you for your post.


27 posted on 08/01/2012 7:35:50 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: bill1952; All

“How exactly can a reasonable chain of custody be 100% guaranteed?”

It cannot if you are buying used items. Nor do I think it should be. To have a 100% guaranteed chain of custody for guns is to invite gun confiscation.

Here is an old but good post:

Gun Registration is Gun Confiscation

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2608785/posts

Of course, an individual can guarantee that the firearm is tied to them if they buy only new and keep records of the sale. With the current war on the constitution, I can see why some people would be concerned with that, just as constitutionalists are concerned about the government having records of gun sales.


28 posted on 08/01/2012 8:09:46 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: mazda77; All

“it is the largest shop, with five locations”

People tend to hear what they want to hear. Conscious or not, he has a vested interest in discouraging private sales.


29 posted on 08/01/2012 8:37:47 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

$7000 Grant for Crime Prevention, eh?

A Concealed license class, in my stomping grounds, cost about $90.00.

How many of those do you think could be paid for, with that grant?

How many law-abiding citizens could that enable, ‘to do the right thing’?

Would THAT not be a ‘crime detterent’?


30 posted on 08/01/2012 8:45:25 AM PDT by Terry L Smith
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To: Terry L Smith
"A Concealed license class, in my stomping grounds, cost about $90.00.

How many of those do you think could be paid for, with that grant?

How many law-abiding citizens could that enable, ‘to do the right thing’?

Would THAT not be a ‘crime detterent’?"

Excellent point. I suspect that this sheriff department is not one of those who are offering free gun classes to women as a crime deterrent.

St. Landry Sheriff Hosts Women’s Self Defense, Gun Classes

http://kpel965.com/st-landry-sheriff-hosts-womens-self-defense-gun-classes/

31 posted on 08/01/2012 9:02:53 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: mazda77
What you do is to collect the serial number off the gun and ask to have the numbers run before finalizing the deal. Simple as that. Every officer has access to the database on his mobile computer.

WHAT!?

They LIED! They are not supposed to be collecting a database of all serial numbers!

The only database of serials they are SUPPOSED to have is a list of stolen guns.

32 posted on 08/01/2012 9:56:36 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Actually, you are correct in that only the stolen guns are in a database and the screen on the inquiry only comes back with a stolen or not stolen designation. There is and never was any mention of an all encompassing database of all guns or any other information tied to it except whether it is listed as stolen.


33 posted on 08/01/2012 12:12:22 PM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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