Exclusive: Brigham Young’s Great-Great-Granddaughter on Mormonism and Mitt Romney

Daily Beast ^ | August 7, 2012 | Jamie Reno

[greyfoxx39]

A direct descendant of Brigham Young, Sue Emmett left the church because of the very values she says would make Romney a frightening president. She speaks exclusively with Jamie Reno.

A direct descendant of Brigham Young, Sue Emmett left the church because of the very values she says would make Romney a frightening president. She speaks exclusively with Jamie Reno.

Sue Emmett is Mormon royalty. Her great-great-grandfather was Brigham Young, the founder of Salt Lake City, first governor of Utah, and president and prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) from 1847 until his death in 1877.

Emmett, whose grandmother was born in Young's historic Beehive House, attended Brigham Young University, where she walked past the imposing 7-and-a-half-foot bronze-casted statue of her great-great-grandfather every day on her way to class.

“Walking by that statue every day, I was reminded of my heritage, my lineage,” says Emmett. “That, plus going up to Salt Lake and walking through the Beehive House a couple of times and thinking of my grandmother, who I knew very well, all that pretty much sealed the deal for me being a very devout, obedient Mormon girl.”

But by the time she reached her mid-30s, she began to have doubts. Emmett started questioning the ethics and veracity of the church’s doctrine and its founders, including Young himself, and she grew increasingly concerned with the way, she says, the church treats women. She held these questions close to the vest for many years until, in 1999, at the age of 55, she finally made the hard decision to leave the church.

"There was a powerful mystique around me that I was special because of my heritage, so it was really difficult for me to leave,” says Emmett, now 71. “It was the only life, the only home I ever knew. But I just couldn’t stay any longer.”

Emmett, who still has dear friends and family members in the church—“You can be critical of the church and still be compassionate toward the people in it,” she says—is now president of the Exmormon Foundation, which was organized to give support and understanding to those who leave Mormonism. In an exclusive interview with The Daily Beast, Emmett, who rarely speaks to the media, talks about what life is like in the church, why she left, and what she thinks motivates Mitt Romney to want to be president.

Sue Emmett discusses her experience as a woman in the Mormon church.

"The church has astutely created a very benign image to the world. They spend millions of dollars a year doing this," says Emmett, who was born and raised in Portland, Ore., and still lives there. "But there are things that go on inside the church that are hurtful to women. There are many women still in the church who have complaints about not having any real say in what goes on, but they have nowhere to go with these complaints.”

Emmett says there is a lot of silent suffering among Mormon women, but she just reached a point where she couldn’t stay silent anymore.

“The church has astutely created a very benign image to the world. They spend millions of dollars a year doing this,” says Emmett.

Divorced from her husband of 34 years, who is still a Mormon, Emmett—the mother of seven grown children, five of whom are still in the church while two have left—says that “the one thing that finally put the arrow in me" was when she and her sister-in-law decided to start a retreat for Mormon women. Church leaders were not amused, she says.

“It was just a social and cultural thing," Emmett explains. "We made a vow that we would never have anything at the retreat that was anti-church, it would just be a place for cultural events and sharing ideas. We had artists and guest speakers, including one woman who spent her life traveling around the world taking pictures of women and their cultures.”

Emmett says the retreat, which was held in an Oregon mountain lodge and typically attracted between 60 and 70 Mormon women, had feminist overtones, “but we never talked about problems at church. We did nothing wrong.”

Still, the negative reaction among her church’s leadership was the last straw.

"We knew we'd get in trouble for doing it, but we did it anyway," she says. "From that point on, I was marginalized. I’d done everything a good Mormon woman could do in the church, including teaching children in Sunday school, but after we did the retreat I was treated differently.”

Responding to Emmett’s comments about the church’s treatment of women, Ruth Todd, a spokeswoman for the church, tells The Daily Beast: “Nearly half of the 14 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are women. To assert that my membership or participation in the church is based on compulsion or deception is both offensive and disparaging to me as a woman, and is patently false.”

Says Todd: “The right of every individual [Mormon] to make choices for themselves that determine their path in life and in the eternities is a fundamental doctrine of our faith. As a woman, I view my role in the church and in God’s plan as distinct and complementary to the efforts of men. Trying to characterize the role of women in the church in a purely hierarchical way misses the mark and is a flawed premise that demeans the role and value of women.”

Since she left 13 years ago, Emmett has become a leader of the ex-Mormon movement, which she says is not about bashing her former church but about helping former members make the difficult adjustment. “It’s such an insular world, and for some people it is really hard to make it on the ‘outside,’ so to speak,” she says.

Emmett has watched Mitt Romney very closely throughout his public life and has strong opinions about what shaped his personality and his character. “Mitt is a product not only of his wealth, but of an organization that gives men power when they are 12 years old,” she says. “That is when boys are ordained with the priesthood. It is a big moment in a Mormon male’s childhood.”

As for what pundits say is Romney's difficulty connecting with people, Emmett blames it largely on what she calls “the entitled Mormon male syndrome, where the leadership professes compassion and concern but leaves the manifestations of that to the drones. All male leadership is not this way; there are some wonderful men who do their best to exercise their power compassionately, but many do not.”

Emmett says Romney was a bishop, “a position where everyone defers to you. What a bishop says goes. People come to them to receive blessings.” He then became a stake president, she says, which means he presided over several congregations, and at that point bishops deferred to him.

“Mitt has had people defer to him and not challenge him his entire life,” says Emmett. “In the Mormon church if you challenge your priesthood leaders it’s a very bad thing to do, especially for women. As the world can now see, Mitt has a very hard time with being questioned and criticized; he’s had so little of this in his life."

Will he be more beholden to his church than to the American people? Emmett recalls that when Romney was stake president in the church, he was pro-life. But when he was running for governor he changed his position to pro-choice. A woman in the church who was a good friend of Emmett’s went to see Romney and thanked him for changing his position. “He told her that he had talked to church leaders in Salt Lake,” Emmett says, “and that they gave him permission to change his position.”

The Romney campaign did not respond to numerous requests for comment.

Emmett says she doesn’t think Romney has the ability to separate what leaders of the church want from what the country needs.

“Mitt has been groomed to become president from a very young age,” says Emmett. “The thing is, I think his father [George Romney, who ran for president in 1968] would have made a much better president. In many ways the church was more benign then than it is now.”

Regarding Romney and the presidency, Emmett cites a bit of Mormon lore called the White Horse Prophecy that has floated around since the time of Mormon founder Joseph Smith. It suggests that Mormons believe a time will come when the U.S. Constitution is eroding and Mormon leaders will save it and usher in a new theocracy with Mormons in charge. Emmett’s great-great-grandfather talked about it. In a discourse from 1855, Young wrote that "when the Constitution hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the 'Mormon' Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it."

Romney has said that he considers the White Horse Prophecy just a matter of speculation by church members. "I haven't heard my name associated with it or anything of that nature," he told The Salt Lake Tribune in 2007. "That's not official church doctrine…I don't put that at the heart of my religious belief."

But Emmett begs to differ. “I can guarantee you that there are millions of Mormons who believe this prophecy and see Romney as potential fulfillment of it,” she says. “As a Mormon, you grow up hearing about this prophecy. I think Mitt believes he has a mandate from God to become president so he can help move this along. I don’t know if it’s a conscious thought, but it's in his subconscious.”

Emmett says she thinks Romney’s biggest fault is that he has a “serious problem telling the truth. There is flip-flopping, which he has done more than any politician in modern history, and then there is out and out lying,” she says. “This kind of thing has sadly been a part of the church from the very beginning. Some modern apostles actually taught that it is not always the best thing to tell the truth if it interferes with preaching gospel.”

Emmett says the notion of “Lying for the Lord,” as it has been called, implies that teaching the whole truth about the church should be avoided. At a presentation on Lying for the Lord at the 2008 Exmormon Foundation conference, Ken Clark addressed the issue. Clark, who worked as a teacher for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years and also served as a bishop before leaving the church in 2003, tells The Daily Beast, “Lying has become an institutionalized method of administrative control with the church.”

“Every Mormon grows up with the idea that it’s OK to lie if it’s for a higher cause,” says Clark, who now works for a company that markets employment and labor market data. “But what happens is when this becomes a part of your ethical tool kit, you develop a condescending attitude toward people. Like Ann Romney saying 'you people.’ This idea of lying for the Lord gives you license to place people on an inferior level. It’s OK for Mitt Romney to ignore the principle of full disclosure because it’s in his DNA. Look what he’s doing with his taxes, and how he talks only in generic and sanitized terms about his religion.”

But church spokeswoman Ruth Todd says there is no merit to Clark's accusations.

“To assert that there is a culture of dishonesty or deception in the church is both woefully uninformed and ridiculous," Todd says. "The pursuit of truth is at the heart of who we are. Mormon women around the world participate actively in our church because we find value and truth in the doctrines, structure and deep meaning provided by the gospel of Jesus Christ that is at the core of our faith. All church members are encouraged to study for themselves and develop their own convictions about the church and its teachings.”

When Clark left the church, he says, Emmett was of "great help to me. She is one of best people I know. She is very courageous and compassionate."

And Emmett, despite her issues with Romney and the church, does not want to be cast as a Mormon hater. She says that while she strongly disagrees with many of the tenets and practices of Mormonism, most Mormons are kind, honest people.

“Many of my children and other family members are still devout Mormons, and I want to be sensitive to their beliefs and I have no desire to hurt them,” says Emmett. “It’s been hard for me. It was my entire life for 50 years. I was very sincere and devout for a very long time. But as a feminist and someone who believes that you should be allowed to say what you really feel, I had to leave.”

[Elsie]

Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.

WE are NOT!!

[Elsie]

Some of these people are obsessed, bordering on psychosis.

We DO follow these rules to the LETTER though!!

---

The Rules

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
4. Don't debate or argue.
5. Center your mind on your mission.
6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
7. Cut your hair regularly.
8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
9. Be neat and clean.
10. Bathe frequently.
11. Use deodorant.
12. Polish your shoes.
13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
18. Exercise regularly.
19. Write in your journal regularly.
20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
36. Do not go on road trips.
37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
38. Do not watch television.
39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
40. Do not listen to the radio.
41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
42. Do not participate in musical groups.
43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
45. Do not engage in contact sports.
46. Do not engage in water sports.
47. Do not engage in winter sports.
48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
51. Do not embark on a private boat.
52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
53. Do not handle firearms.
54. Do not handle explosives.
55. Do not swim.
56. Do not play full court basketball.
57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
59. You may play half-court basketball.
60. Never be alone.
61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
62. Be loyal to your companion.
63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
64. Pray with your companion every day.
65. Study with your companion every day.
66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
72. Do not arise before your companion.
73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
77. Do not flirt.
78. Do not date.
79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
90. Do not telephone parents
91. Do not telephone relatives.
92. Do not telephone friends.
93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
98. Obey all mission rules.
99. Obey the laws of the land.
100. Do not get involved in politics.
101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
102. Do not give any information about the area.
103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
108. Be courteous.
109. Provide community service.
110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
114. Keep your housing unit clean.
115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
121. Maintain your health.
122. Eat a healthy diet.
123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
124. Follow the approved exercise program.
125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
129. Be immunized.
130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
131. Budget your money carefully.
132. Keep a record of what you spend.
133. Do not spend more than your companion.
134. Do not loan money.
135. Do not borrow money.
136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
141. Be a frugal photographer.
142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
147. Do not drive without a license.
148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
149. Do not drive members’ cars.
150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
155. Drive defensively.
156. Wear your seat belt.
157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
160. Know bicycle safety rules.
161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

[Elsie]

YOU can have your “non-Mormon” Pres_ent and we’ll take the Mormon.

MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway...

---

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

[Elsie]

MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway...

---

Well... ONE of them...

[Las Vegas Ron]

Funny, are people who Witness the Gospel of Christ obsessed?

[Elsie]

Well... ONE of them...

---

 

 

If You Could Hie to Kolob

 #284 – William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
    And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
    Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
    Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
    Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
    Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
    Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
    Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
    There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
    There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
    There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
    There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
    There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.
    There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

I am serious, it’s the only explanation for your obsession and hatred.

ONLY?

You SURE?

[Elsie]

Were you sexually abused by a Mormon?

HHMMmmm...

---

 

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

 

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice. 

 

 

 

 

---

Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

---

 

Eliza was a devout Mormon. At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma). In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

 

 

Wow!!

 

 

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

 

 

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!

[pingman]

That sums it up for my experiences.

[NoGrayZone]

Last time I did 3rd party was Perot. Like I have stated before, still praying for a miracle. Won't know what I will do until election day. What I WON'T do is write in or vote for 3rd party.....unless it's Sarah. As of this moment, it's Sarah or Mitt.

"(If Obama loses in '12; re-runs as an (R) in 2020 vs. a more liberal Dem"

Oh please....now you are bordering on hysterics. I usually don't push meds....but in your case PUSH.

[Elsie]

If you folks continue to rail about Romney being Mormon, you’re going to end up having 0bama for 4 more years.

If you folks continue to ignore Romney being either a DECEIVED Mormon or else a DECEIVING one, then you’re going to end up having to account for the deception of others that a MORMON president would achieve.

---

What's THAT; St. Pete?

No; I DIDN'T think religion was that important.

[greyfoxx39]

I know a lot of people will burn me for this- but I know what Jesus did for me (Eph 2:8-9) and that the Mormon religion is based on lies and Satanic beliefs, not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romney ~may~ end up the tyrant that we all hope doesn’t come to pass in our lifetimes. Not saying he will, but he may.

Better to be burned by pretend entities on an internet forum by those who are ignorant to the danger than to answer to God for following a false prophet. Good for you.

[Las Vegas Ron]

MORMONs have already thrown their god under the bus anyway... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well... ONE of them...

LOL...you're hypocrite in the highest order.

Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith, rather han Witnessing to them to show them the way?

Nah, never mind, you're waste of time.

[Elsie]

LVR dislays the false excluded middle again...

[greyfoxx39]

Mormons comprised most of the personnel that investigate and grant security clearances for just about everybody as I found out during my service with the Army. When I asked why, I was told that they are “clean” meaning there’s nothing in the investigators’ background that could be used for blackmail

You were misinformed. Take it from an ex-mormon who has lived in mormon-controlled communities.

OR...are you saying that if Mitt wins the presidency he has a ready made "investigatory" army in place? Sounds an awful lot like Obama.

[Las Vegas Ron]

Why, by pointing that you’re so weak in your own convictions you have to belittle others to try and show your own faith?

NOtice you didn’t adress the Witnessing part....

[greyfoxx39]

Please explain how you are serving The Good Lord Jesus by denigrating another faith, rather han Witnessing to them to show them the way?

Read my tagline. The claims made daily by 52,000 missionaries are not "witnessing" the glory of God and His Son, but putting forth a false prophet and a phony "restoration" of the Gospel of Christ.

But, I guess that hasn't occurred to you, huh?

[pallis]

Both are a problem, but Obama is a much bigger problem, and he will do much more lasting damage, much sooner. They aren’t two equal evils.

[Las Vegas Ron]

Muzzie or Mormon, your choice, obot.

[Las Vegas Ron]

You do have a reading comprehension problem...yes?