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To: TXnMA; Alamo-Girl; BrandtMichaels; hosepipe
...do you see the makings of "Universal Now" in that list? And how about a "Heavenly reference frame"?

Well, it seems to me that a "Heavenly reference frame" must refer to the Word of God — Logos Alpha to Omega.

But such would not be an "attribute" of God, as are some other items on your list (e.g., that He is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, unconstrained, eternal, designer, etc.).

The common thread underlying all these "attributes" of God is that all are conceived from the reference point of human experience, attempting to find a suitable language by which insights of the Infinite can be conveyed, communicated, to finite minds.

Yet those who have had epiphanies of God, visions, become aware that no language exists that can fully convey such experiences. A common report is that such experiences of the Presence of the Lord are not even given in human language, but only through images, "graphical" representations. (This squares with my own experiences of this type.)

And there is simply no way to "reduce" such experiences to ordinary human language. If one tries, one only "reduces" God to human categories of understanding; and if that happens, one is no longer even speaking of God as He IS in Himself — absolute eternal Being. There is NO human analogue of this to speak from.

We try to understand the "nature" of God; but God is not "natural." HE is supernatural, "Beyond" what the human mind can conceive.

Oh Lord, you are not only that than which a greater cannot be conceived, you are also greater than what can be conceived. — Anselm of Cantebury, Saint and Doctor of the Church

But as Anselm knew, the felt "pull" of the Divine is a human existential fact — for those who have the "ears to hear" and thus are open to such experiences.

And so, Anselm begs God:

Speak to my desirous soul what you are, other than what it has seen, that it may clearly see what it desires.

Question: How does one convey such experiences in terms of the language of "instrumental reason" so celebrated today?

Answer: One can't, without deforming God and the human experience of God as directly felt Presence....

It seems to me the Eternal Now is a Name, not an attribute, of God. Pure BEING is not an attribute.... It "pre-exists" attributes.

But the Eternal Now is something that human beings can "sense" — if only fleetingly....

Well, words really can't convey what I'm trying to speak to. Obviously.

Man has LIMITS which God does not have.

156 posted on 08/22/2012 2:18:21 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; people

[ Yet those who have had epiphanies of God, visions, become aware that no language exists that can fully convey such experiences. ]

I got you a big old amen waiting for here...
Thank God salvation is not just for the “smart”....

Even dumb folks qualify..
Some catholics think protestants are sometimes dumb...
And some protestants think the same of some catholics...
And they both think Mormans are (shall we say) challenged..

Not to speak of the Buddists, Hindus, and the poor Muslims.. and Animists...
people seek God with whatever they have to seek him/it with..

Sure God knows this... heck even I KNOW IT...


160 posted on 08/22/2012 8:58:35 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: betty boop; TXnMA; BrandtMichaels; hosepipe
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

All I can add is that the Jewish mystics use the term Ayn Sof when speaking of God the Creator. The term literally means "no thing" and the point is that any word man would use to describe Creator-God would limit his concept by the word he used.

That insight has stayed with me for years perhaps to warn me away from superimposing my mental limitations onto God's revelations of Who He IS.

Truly, God the Father has revealed Himself in four ways: through the Person of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, through His words in Scripture and through His Creation both physical and spiritual.

And so we can gather up testimonies, make observations about Him from His creation, compile His own words revealing Himself to us - whether Name or attribute - and yet we should stop short of presuming that we fully know or could ever fully know "Who God IS" - i.e. Ayn Sof.

Man is not the measure of God.

167 posted on 08/23/2012 8:37:41 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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