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The First Debate: Mitt Romney's Five Biggest Lies
Rolling Stone ^ | 10/4/2012 | Tim Dickinson

Posted on 10/04/2012 12:58:40 PM PDT by Incorrigible

The First Debate: Mitt Romney's Five Biggest Lies

The truth behind that $5 trillion tax cut, pre-existing conditions and more

By Tim Dickinson October 4, 2012 9:32 AM ET

Mitt Romney turned in a polished performance in last night's presidential debate – and revealed himself to be an accomplished and unapologetic liar. In an evening where he sought to slice and dice the president with statistics, Romney baldly misrepresented his own policy prescriptions, made up numbers to fit his attacks and buried clear contrasts with the president under a heaping pile of horseshit.

Here are mendacious Mitt's five most outrageous statements:

1. "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut." Romney flatly lied about the cost of his proposal to cut income-tax rates across the board by another 20 percent (undercutting even the low rates of the Bush tax cuts). Independent economists at the Tax Policy Center have shown that the price tag for those cuts is $360 billion in the first year, a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.

2. "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." Romney has claimed that he will pay for his tax cuts by closing a variety of loopholes and deductions. The factual problem? Romney hasn't named a single loophole he's willing to close; worse, there's no way to offset $5 trillion in tax cuts even if you get rid of the entire universe of deductions for the wealthy that Romney has not put off the table (like the carried interest loophole or the 15 percent capital gains rate.) The Tax Policy Center report concludes that Romney's proposal would create a "net tax cut for high-income tax payers and a net tax increase for lower- and or middle-income taxpayers." Moreover, some of Romney's tax cuts are micro-targeted at American dynasties, particularly his proposal to eliminate the estate tax, which would reduce his own sons' tax burden by tens of millions of dollars.

3. "We've got 23 million people out of work or [who have] stopped looking for work in this country." Romney is lying for effect. The nation's crisis of joblessness is bad, but not 23 million bad. The official figure is 12.5 million unemployed. An additional 2.6 million Americans have stopped looking for jobs. How does Romney gin up his eye-popping 23 million figure? He counts more than 8 million wage earners who hold part-time jobs as also being "out of work."

4. Obamacare "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have." Romney is reviving Sarah Palin's old death panels lie here. Obamacare does establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help constrain the growth of Medicare spending. The body has no authority to dictate the practices of the private insurance marketplace. And the law also makes explicit that this body is banned from rationing care or limiting medical benefits to seniors.

5. "Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan." In the biggest whopper of the night, Romney suggested that his health care proposal would guarantee coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions. This is just not true. Under Romney, if you have a pre-existing condition and have been unable to obtain insurance coverage or if you have had to drop coverage for more than 90 days because you lost your job or couldn't afford the premiums, you would be shit out of luck. Insurance companies could continue to discriminate and deny you coverage, as even Romney's top adviser conceded after the debate was over.

Not for commercial use. For educational and discussion purposes only.

 


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012debates; barfarticle; debate; obama; presidentialdebate; romney; romneylies
Hi all. My Facebook debating society kept referring to Mitt Romney's lies during the debate so I figured I would search out what they were referencing. This Rolling Stone article seems to be a summary of their complaints.

 

1 posted on 10/04/2012 12:58:49 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible

eff’em


2 posted on 10/04/2012 1:01:51 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Incorrigible

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... stupid lefties wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped in the face


3 posted on 10/04/2012 1:02:19 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Incorrigible

Romney did not lie and obama is a serial liar. If Romney lied... obama could have countered but Mitt did not lie and obama was left with nothing but his own lies and rolling stone magazine is nothing but a lie itself.

LLS


4 posted on 10/04/2012 1:02:19 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("If it looks like you are not gonna make it you gotta get mean, I mean plumb mad-dog mean" J. Wales)
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To: Incorrigible

Rolling Stone?!? Do people still read Rolling Stone? I think the last copy I read was back around 1985...


5 posted on 10/04/2012 1:03:08 PM PDT by apillar
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To: Incorrigible

Keep barking at the moon, Timmy.


6 posted on 10/04/2012 1:03:23 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Incorrigible

The assumption in 1) is that tax cuts reduce government tax income.

The opposite has been proven true every time it’s tried.


7 posted on 10/04/2012 1:06:12 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Incorrigible

You understand that Romney denied each and every one of these points.

So how do you prove he lied? The man denied them and said it isn’t so. That carries more weight then a hypothetical.


8 posted on 10/04/2012 1:06:40 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Incorrigible

Biggest Music Magazine Lie........Rolling Stone


9 posted on 10/04/2012 1:06:47 PM PDT by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: Incorrigible

Rolling Stone is so choom gang.


10 posted on 10/04/2012 1:07:10 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: Incorrigible

Each one of those is easily refuted, especially the first $5 trillion one — it’s contradicted by item #2, which discusses the closure of loopholes. The author has a very selective memory in the first two items.

The 23 million refers to unemployed and underemployed. Semantics. And if someone applied the same criteria to Obama’s statements, they’d be screaming “liar liar” too.

This is incredibly weak. If that’s the best these folks can do, they’re in deep trouble. Romney, like all candidates, spun things to his advantage.

IPAB? If IPAB can’t cut services or ration care, how exactly is it going to reduce costs? I mean, think about that for a second. How does it achieve savings and what exactly is it going to do? It obviously isn’t just giving advice to doctors, because that wouldn’t have a Congressional override.

So clearly it’s going to change what is and isn’t covered by Medicare, perhaps indirectly by cutting reimbursements for certain procedures so low that nobody will offer them (”hey, we didn’t ban hip replacements for 80-year-olds, we just reduced the cost, it’s not our fault that no doctor will do them for $2,000 per procedure”).

As I said, this is really weak spin from a bunch of cocooned leftists.


11 posted on 10/04/2012 1:07:42 PM PDT by Numbers Guy
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To: MrB

Static weighting v dynamic weighting


12 posted on 10/04/2012 1:07:50 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Incorrigible

You cannot argue the weather when the other person is on Mars. They start with false assumptions to begin with.


13 posted on 10/04/2012 1:08:38 PM PDT by Chipper (You can't kill an Obamazombie by destroying the brain...they didn't have one to begin with.)
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To: Incorrigible
What an absolute crock. These commie bastards are such predictable Marxist asswipes it's not even funny.

Independent economists at the Tax Policy Center have shown that the price tag for those cuts is $360 billion in the first year, a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.

Really Comrade? Every time taxes are cut, it's a 'cost'? The implication of that is simply that all wealth belongs to the government, and that you, the individual, may get some crumbs now and then, if your government ruling class masters deem it appropriate.

14 posted on 10/04/2012 1:09:01 PM PDT by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Incorrigible

Whatever. Rolling stone. Enough said. I watched PMSNBC this morning for kicks. I found out that Obama was timid because he didn’t want to come off as an angry black man, Romney lied, Obama is important and that’s why he didn’t have as much time to prepare. Whatever.


15 posted on 10/04/2012 1:10:07 PM PDT by vpintheak (Occupy your Brain!)
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To: Incorrigible

Regarding Point #1 above ( the $5 Trillion tax cut )

Leaving aside that no one’s heard anything from Romney about “5 trillion in tax cuts that favor the wealthy,” Romney’s disavowal of a huge net tax cut is completely consistent.

It’s what he’s been saying since he was forced during a harrowing primary run to come up with the tax plan in the first place. He isn’t proposing to cut Americans’ taxes by $5 trillion dollars — he’s going to cut SOME taxes substantially, but overall, he’s not proposing a massive tax cut, since most would agree that the federal government’s current fiscal situation is such that we can’t afford less revenue.

His plan is, in the main, a cut in tax RATES that will reduce revenues by a number that’s actually a lot lower than $5 trillion, paid for by eliminating tax deductions and broadening the base — so you’re not looking at a trillion-dollar tax cut at all.

This happens to be pretty widely acknowledged good tax policy, since it improves incentives and reduces distortions in the tax code, without blowing a hole in the federal balance sheet.

IMHO, this seems relatively doable, since Romney’s proposed rate cuts amount to about $360 billion a year in 2015 (about $300 billion when dynamically scored), and in that year, tax deductions/expenditures will amount to $1.3 trillion. It seems, then, that even major deductions can be preserved while still paying for the plan.

The debate focuses on a study by Brookings’s Tax Policy Center (TPC) which found, operating under certain assumptions about Romney’s plan, that upper-income taxpayers don’t receive enough in deductions to cancel out the revenue losses from rate cuts. This is basically true, but Romney could violate some other promises if he is committed to maintaining progressivity: For instance, TPC followed his dictum that he won’t touch incentives for investment and savings, and therefore assumed that he wouldn’t eliminate the tax exemption for, say, municipal-bond interest.

That was a fair assumption in their study, but given that such a change could go a long way toward maintaining progressivity (and be good policy that doesn’t affect overall investment incentives, to boot), it’s just one way that Romney might be able to get closer to achieving his goals. That said, given that the U.S. currently faces a trend of unacceptably slow growth and yawning federal budget deficits, it seems that out of pro-growth reform, revenue neutrality, and constant progressivity, policy-wise, Romney’s least important goal is the last of these, but it seems quite unlikely he’ll disavow it.

TPC’s study has also pointed out that practically speaking, it will be difficult to eliminate tax expenditures in a strictly progressive way, as you’d need to do to maintain progressivity, while lowering rates.

One way around this is a hard cap on deductions, as Romney mentioned last night and on the trail recently (throwing around numbers in the range of $15–20,000, the implications of which Josh Barro discusses here). However, if this is the primary venue Romney is going to use for base-broadening and deduction-elimination (rather than eliminating specific deductions), his plan may be more politically palatable, but “revenue neutrality will likely prove an elusive goal.”

You’re still not going to see, however, the phantom “$5 trillion tax cut,” since Romney’s committed to raising revenue to offset it, and he’s said that all along.

And a final point on “$5 trillion”: Even if Romney were proposing only his rate cuts, and estate-tax and AMT elimination, Obama’s favorite new number isn’t really the actual revenue loss.

Here’s how they got to it: The Tax Policy Center, at one point, estimated that cutting every individual income tax bracket by 20 percent would cost $360 billion a year by 2015, and then Romney’s other proposals, relative to current policy (enactment of Obamacare, continuation of all Bush tax cuts) would cost another $96 billion, so the 2015 cost is $456 billion. This was originally $480 billion, before TPC took into account a range of obvious microeconomic incentive effects.

Over ten years, you’re looking at either $4.56 trillion, or $4.8 trillion; Obama decided $5 trillion sounded nicer. But there’s a further important caveat to that: Cuts on earned-income tax rates that are already in the 10 to 35 percent range are never going to come anywhere close to paying for themselves, but there will be DYNAMIC effects.

One reasonable model Brookings used suggests about 15 percent of the value of the cuts will be made up for, so we now end up with $3.9 trillion in revenue losses from all of Romney’s tax-cutting proposals.

And that isn’t really fair, either: Yes, Romney is proposing these cuts relative to current policy, but “current policy” involves some significant Obama tax HIKES in 2013: most prominently, Obamacare’s new surtaxes on investment and wage income by high-income earners.

I wouldn’t exactly call it a tax cut to prevent increases that have been scheduled for next year by the current administration. The CBO estimates that the cost of preventing these tax increases over the next ten years would be $569 billion. Since that number isn’t actually a tax cut, but in fact, the cost of preventing proposed tax increases, you can subtract it from the $4.56 trillion number, end up with $4 trillion, and after allowing for a reasonable amount of dynamic effects, you have $3.4 trillion in cuts. Thus, Obama is also significantly overrating how dramatic a cut Romney’s rate cuts would actually imply.


16 posted on 10/04/2012 1:10:21 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: Incorrigible
And the counter to Rolling and Stoned article.

- - - -

Check the Math: Romney's Tax Plan Doesn't Raise Middle Class Tax

12:39 PM, Oct 3, 2012 • By JOHN MCCORMACK

A study by the Tax Policy Center, a project of the center-left Brookings Institution and Urban Institute, claims that Mitt Romney's tax plan is mathematically impossible.

Mitt Romney

TPC claims that Romney cannot cut tax rates by 20 percent across the board and maintain revenue neutrality without raising the net tax burden on the middle class. According to TPC, in the year 2015 under Romney's tax plan, "maintaining revenue neutrality mathematically necessitates a shift in the tax burden of at least $86 billion away from high-income taxpayers onto lower- and middle-income taxpayers. This is true even under the assumption that the maximum amount of revenue possible is obtained from cutting tax expenditures for high-income households."

So, according to the Tax Policy Center, we start out with an $86 billion hole in Romney's tax plan. But the Tax Policy Center's own calculations show that that $86 billion hole can, in fact, be filled without raising middle class taxes.

TPC's study assumes that pro-growth tax reform cannot produce any economic growth. TPC acknowledges that, according to an economic model created by Harvard professors Greg Mankiw and Matthew Weinzerl that assumes tax reform will produce economic growth, "the tax cuts would result in revenue reductions of $307 billion (instead of $360 billion)." In other words, economic growth could fill $53 billion of that $86 billion hole. 

That still leaves us $33 billion short. But TPC also acknowledges that its study assumed that Romney would not touch "the exclusion of interest on state and local bonds and the exclusion of inside-buildup on life insurance vehicles." According to TPC, eliminating these exclusions could raise $45 billion in revenue.

So economic growth ($53 billion) plus nixing these two exclusions ($45 billion) equals $98 billion. That's $12 billion more than the $86 billion needed to prevent a middle class tax hike.

William G. Gale, co-director of the Tax Policy Center and one of the authors of the study on Romney's tax plan, told me this morning that under these two assumptions Romney's tax plan would maintain revenue neutrality without raising middle class taxes. "Under those assumptions and policies it would be revenue neutral," Gale wrote in an email, "but remember the tax expenditures are eliminated from the top down and that is not administratively feasible. So you also have to assume tax expenditures are eliminated in an infeasible manner to avoid the tax increase on households with income below $200,000."

So what the Tax Policy Center is really saying is not that Romney's tax plan is mathematically impossible, but that it's difficult. Whether or not eliminating tax expenditures from the top down is "administratively feasible" is a matter of opinion--not a matter of math.

One final point: As Alex Brill of the American Enterprise Institute writes, TPC wrongly assumes that Romney's tax reform must pay for repealing Obamacare's tax hikes: 

The TPC revenue baseline assumption is inflated. TPC assumed that the baseline against which Romney is seeking revenue neutrality includes a 0.9 percent surcharge on “earned” income and an additional 3.8 percent surcharge on “unearned” income of high-income taxpayers that were adopted in the healthcare law. Romney has proposed repealing these taxes, but has not suggested that the cost of repeal would be paid for by tax reform. Instead, the budget effect of repealing these taxes should be analyzed in the context of the repeal of various other healthcare provisions.

Despite TPC’s assertion that adjusting its baseline assumption "does not alter our primary conclusion," the revenue consequence of repealing this tax in 2015 is a full $29 billion, all of which falls on high-income earners. Correcting the baseline by removing this provision means that more of the revenue raised by broadening the tax base on high-income taxpayers can be used to finance tax reductions for the middle class So if we assume (1) that the repeal of Obamacare's tax hikes is more than paid for by repeal of Obamacare's spending and (2) that Romney could nix the exclusion of interest on state and local bonds and the exclusion of inside-buildup on life insurance vehicles, then the $86 billion hole is actually a $12 billion hole. So the boost to economic growth from the Romney plan could be much smaller than what the Mankiw-Weinzerl study indicates it would be, and Romney's plan would still maintain revenue neutrality without raising middle class taxes.

As Alex Brill writes, "if the economy were to grow just 0.1 percentage point faster per year as a result of the reform, the additional revenue in 2015 would be approximately $13 billion. The result: A $12 billion tax increase on the middle class actually becomes a tax cut."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/check-math-romneys-tax-plan-doesnt-raise-middle-class-taxes_653485.html


17 posted on 10/04/2012 1:10:21 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Incorrigible

Liberals’ definition of “lie” is quite expansive when it comes to Republicans, and not applicable to Obama’s whoppers over the years:
1) So, an “independent” panel found something out and extrapolated to 10 years; that sounds like an opinion, and not a fact, given that calculations are based on assumptions; given that Romney did not talk about which loopholes he’d close (see #2 below - he did mention he’d be open to negotiate which ones with both Republican AND Democrat leaders), it is impossible to say their calculations are based on facts.
2) So Mitt Romney did not specify which loopholes and deductions he’d close. Remind me again what’s the definition of lie?
3) Romney and Republicans call the 23 million numbers the unemployed AND under-employed. Most of the part-time workers would rather have a full-time position, but not enough of those positions are available in the Obama economy.
4) The un-elected Board. It is designed similar to the one in the UK. Sure they do not tell doctors what treatments they are allowed to give, but as Obama says, using the purchasing power of Medicare and Medicaid (big stick), all they have to do is to simply say what’s reimbursable and what’s not. This is similar to the way Obama planned to deal with the coal industry before his election - sure you can build new plants, but you’ll go bankrupt!
5) I don’t know enough about this issue.


18 posted on 10/04/2012 1:12:36 PM PDT by winner3000
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To: Incorrigible

Thank you for this. These lies are so obvious. Esp lie #4. I cannot believe he is going to try to get the American public to believe this again after Sarah Palin tried and was made to look so foolish. He must have the worst advisors ever.


19 posted on 10/04/2012 1:12:47 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: Incorrigible
The Mormon is storming. . . .
20 posted on 10/04/2012 1:12:57 PM PDT by DeaconRed (The chosen one is about to be un-chosen)
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To: Incorrigible

The 23 mil unemployed comes from the CBO.


21 posted on 10/04/2012 1:13:48 PM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Incorrigible
Rolling Stone


22 posted on 10/04/2012 1:15:00 PM PDT by pabianice (washington, dc ..)
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To: Incorrigible

#4 is correct, does the Rolling Stone not read the NYT.


23 posted on 10/04/2012 1:15:15 PM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Incorrigible

I will pay attention to Rolling Stone the minute they update us on Obama’s 5 biggest lies.


24 posted on 10/04/2012 1:15:39 PM PDT by ColdOne (I miss my poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11 0bie don' t eatl my dog!)
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To: MrB; All

This is Mitt’s most glaring failure in the debate. He MUST point out the difference in a tax RATE and a tax REVENUE. Cutting the Rate has always increased the REVENUE.

Harding, JFK, Reagan showed that tax cuts can be a BIPARTISAN policy. Their RATE cuts greatly increased REVENUE.

AND the hated RICH pay MORE after tax cuts.

What Democrat voter would oppose this?


25 posted on 10/04/2012 1:16:49 PM PDT by arrogantsob (The Disaster MUST Go. Sarah herself supports Romney.)
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To: Incorrigible
Is this not a discussion forum? Doesn't it make sense to determine if these are, in fact, lies rather than just talking smack? I'll take the ones I know: 1. "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut." Romney flatly lied about the cost of his proposal to cut income-tax rates across the board by another 20 percent (undercutting even the low rates of the Bush tax cuts). Independent economists at the Tax Policy Center have shown that the price tag for those cuts is $360 billion in the first year, a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.

I seem to remember Romney stating there were several evaluations that showed this TPC evaluation to be junk. But, even if it is not junk, somebody needs to state the terms before declaring someone a liar. If Romney wants to cut taxes by $1 in the first year, it will amount to $5 trillion after 5 trillion years. What time period was Obama referring to? Romney? I don't remember it being mentioned.

2. "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." Romney has claimed that he will pay for his tax cuts by closing a variety of loopholes and deductions. The factual problem? Romney hasn't named a single loophole he's willing to close; worse, there's no way to offset $5 trillion in tax cuts even if you get rid of the entire universe of deductions for the wealthy that Romney has not put off the table The Tax Policy Center report concludes that Romney's proposal would create a "net tax cut for high-income tax payers

This is an odd argument as the first part has nothing to do with the second. It doesn't matter whether closing loopholes will offset 1% or 100% of the rate cuts, the percentage of offset has nothing to do with whether the cost to the rich will go up or down. Now, since Romney hasn't named the loopholes he intends to close, how can the TPC have determined that the closed loopholes will reduce the tax burden on the rich?

3. "We've got 23 million people out of work or [who have] stopped looking for work in this country." Romney is lying for effect. The nation's crisis of joblessness is bad, but not 23 million bad. The official figure is 12.5 million unemployed. An additional 2.6 million Americans have stopped looking for jobs. How does Romney gin up his eye-popping 23 million figure? He counts more than 8 million wage earners who hold part-time jobs as also being "out of work."

This one is likely accurate. Romney was apparently talking about unemployed or underemployed. He should have been more careful.

4. Obamacare "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have." Romney is reviving Sarah Palin's old death panels lie here. Obamacare does establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help constrain the growth of Medicare spending. The body has no authority to dictate the practices of the private insurance marketplace. And the law also makes explicit that this body is banned from rationing care or limiting medical benefits to seniors.

Romney is most likely correct on this one. The role of the IPAB is to keep costs down. Eventually, telling people they have to accept less in payment for services will stop working. After that point, the IPAB will have to ration care. I don't care if the law makes this illegal - that part will be struck down when necessary.

Additionally, Obama has made it clear that he hopes Obamacare will eventually put private insurance companies out of business. What to guess what happens then?

5. "Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan." In the biggest whopper of the night, Romney suggested that his health care proposal would guarantee coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions. This is just not true. Under Romney, if you have a pre-existing condition and have been unable to obtain insurance coverage or if you have had to drop coverage for more than 90 days because you lost your job or couldn't afford the premiums, you would be shit out of luck. Insurance companies could continue to discriminate and deny you coverage, as even Romney's top adviser conceded after the debate was over.

I have no knowledge of this one. Someone else will have to take it.

26 posted on 10/04/2012 1:18:16 PM PDT by ArGee (Reality - what a concept.)
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a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.

Hey, everybody!
I'm a MILLIONAIRE!!
I make $75,000 per year at my job.
So 20 years, I'll have $1,500,000!!

WOO-HOOOO!!!

*thud*
(too much derp)
27 posted on 10/04/2012 1:18:23 PM PDT by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: apillar
Rolling Stone?!? Do people still read Rolling Stone? I think the last copy I read was back around 1985...
In my case it was around 1974.
28 posted on 10/04/2012 1:20:17 PM PDT by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: wjcsux

I have to admit I have recently used Rolling Stone...but only because there was no Charmin and it was handy.


29 posted on 10/04/2012 1:32:18 PM PDT by Nekman (A vote made for Obama......is a vote made By a MORON!)
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To: Incorrigible
LOL! I'll give Rolling Stone Magazine the time of day when they write an article on the 0's lies and full expose' on his past.

Beyond that, thanks for posting this, Incorrigible. Very informative on what the Liberals are thinking after the debate! ^_^
30 posted on 10/04/2012 1:37:14 PM PDT by hawaiianninja (Palm note to self: Work for a successful 2012! +Throw the liberal garbage out!)
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To: Incorrigible

Obama is a dope and Rolling Stone is dopier.


31 posted on 10/04/2012 1:39:56 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama at the UN: The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.)
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To: Incorrigible
My Facebook debating society

aka "Stoners"

32 posted on 10/04/2012 1:41:46 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty ("Get that evil, foreign, muslim, usurping, gay bastard out of MY White House!" FUBO!)
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To: The Sons of Liberty
aka "Stoners"

LOL! It's been nice getting reacquainted with old high school friends. Since several of my debaters work for local governments in various capacities, my favorite word for them is apparatchiks!

 

33 posted on 10/04/2012 2:04:21 PM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: Incorrigible

Well, there goes the Rolling Stone mag reader vote, LOL!


34 posted on 10/04/2012 2:06:15 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Where’s Yo Dollar?)
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To: ArGee
Doesn't it make sense to determine if these are, in fact, lies rather than just talking smack? I'll take the ones I know:

Thank you for that. I plan on leveraging your reply!

 

 

35 posted on 10/04/2012 2:07:08 PM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: Incorrigible

IF these are lies maybe Myth is a conservative after all....
But they are not lies making him a liberal..

The author of this piece is a drooler.. worse than a St. Bernard dog..
He can’t tell a liberal form a conservative..


36 posted on 10/04/2012 2:09:30 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: DallasSun

What you talkin’ bout, Willis?


37 posted on 10/04/2012 2:12:36 PM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: hosepipe

Calling these statements lies is a bigger stretch than Rosie O’donnell’s spandex.


38 posted on 10/04/2012 2:21:15 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (ObamaCare is an assault on the unborn, infirmed and elderly. GOP, repeat this as necessary...)
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To: Incorrigible

Problem for this spin is the fact checkers have been caught using fraudulent sources to validate this spin. Since they have been caught lying to us, one has to wonder what else they are lying about.

For example, the Tax Policy Center. This is a combination of the Leftist Brooking Institute, and the farther Left Urban League.

The “study” they are using to “Fact check” with was authored by a formed Obama Administration official. No credible academic would use such a tainted source to “Fact check”

Another source they are using here. The National Journal. Well what is the National Journal? Why a collection of current and former Democrat political operatives, mostly from the Clinton administration.

Again, No credible academic would use such a tainted source to “Fact check”. Their sources for this “Fact check” are Democrat party propaganda fronts


39 posted on 10/04/2012 2:28:08 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Incorrigible

Good God - I wonder what sort of person subscribes to Rolling Stone Magazine in 2012?


40 posted on 10/04/2012 2:37:09 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Incorrigible
>>Obamacare does establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help constrain the growth of Medicare spending.<<

So exactly how will the "independent" board constrain spending? What the hell are they going to be doing? The IPAB unelected members will be more powerful than a congressmen or senator.

the really dangerous part is that these are not mere “proposals.” Obamacare requires the secretary of Health and Human Services to implement them — which means they become law automatically

IPAB, Obamacare’s Super-Legislature

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302876/ipab-obamacare-s-super-legislature-michael-f-cannon
41 posted on 10/04/2012 2:42:39 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen (Beat your plowshares into swords. Let the weak say I am strong)
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To: Incorrigible

Rolling Stoners continue to sing the praises of Zero. No surprises here.


42 posted on 10/04/2012 3:03:25 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: gov_bean_ counter

lol.....


43 posted on 10/04/2012 4:47:49 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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