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Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRAs & 401ks
Silver Doctors ^ | November 16, 2012 | The Doc

Posted on 11/16/2012 11:45:13 PM PST by rocksandbroncs

It may be time to take the tax hit and withdraw funds from private retirement accounts before they are forced into long term T-bonds.

The Obama administration is reportedly quickly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities(aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can’t sell to anyone but the Fed).

National Seniors Council Director Robert Crone warns: “This whole issue is moving forward very quickly. Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.“

(Excerpt) Read more at silverdoctors.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 401k; confiscate; ira; nationalize; savings
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To: CatOwner

The OP couldn’t even put it in “Bloggers”. It should be pulled IMO.


51 posted on 11/17/2012 4:39:24 AM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: rocksandbroncs

It’s hard to imagine this happening, IMO, because dems have all their savings in 401ks too. Not much would surprise me from the communist bastard occupier though. If this happens, all who support it should swing from a rope. Yep, dead freakin serious.


52 posted on 11/17/2012 4:41:16 AM PST by Mich Patriot (PITCH BLACK is the new "transparent")
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To: rocksandbroncs

Nothing unexpected. This is what happens when an ignorant electorate vote for Marxists. Confiscation of property is on the front page.


53 posted on 11/17/2012 4:45:37 AM PST by kenmcg (scapegoat)
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To: rocksandbroncs

Obama Begins Push for New National Retirement System

http://www.nationalseniorscouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89%3Aobama-begins-push-for-new-national-retirement-system&catid=34%3Asocial-security&Itemid=62


54 posted on 11/17/2012 4:51:11 AM PST by Library Lady
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To: rocksandbroncs

NOBODY SHOULD PANIC ON THIS AND DO STUPID THINGS LIKE IMMEDIATELY CASHING IN ALL THEIR IRAS & 401KS—AND TAKING THE IMMEDIATE & LARGE TAX HIT. If you are in a position to do so, you can begin (possibly gradually) to move any existing retirement funds from “traditional IRAs” to Roth IRAs. If your tax & financial situation allows it, try to put any new IRA contributions directly into Roth IRAs. If your 401K plan has a Roth 401K component, go that route for new contributions or as big of a percentage of your new contributions as you can. If your 401K plan doesn’t currently have a Roth component, lobby your employer to have one established—he/she could benefit also.


55 posted on 11/17/2012 4:55:26 AM PST by House Atreides
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Executive orders are subject to judicial review and can be declared unconstitutional.

By the same court that saved Obamacare?

56 posted on 11/17/2012 4:57:48 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: cynwoody
Has to pass the House.

O RLY?

/ONLY HALF JOKING

57 posted on 11/17/2012 4:57:52 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: fella
Not with an Executive Order...

All tax laws and tax policies originate in the House. No President can issue an Executive Order affecting tax policy. If one could, what would stop him from issuing an Order to make the current tax rates top out at either 65% or 15% depending on who was President?

Obama cannot carry out this scheme without a compliant Congress.

58 posted on 11/17/2012 4:58:15 AM PST by Tonytitan
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To: AllAmericanGirl44
If you read the legislative history…of the 401(k), it’s clear this was a tax break for the folks who made lots and lots of money.

This dingbat really believes this?

The U.S. law regarding 401(k) plans actually prevents such plans from operating this way. For one thing, the total amount of annual contributions is capped for any individual participant in a plan. Also, employers have to pass a "income test" for their 401(k) plans, under which highly-compensated employees lose the tax deductibility of their contributions if the company doesn't have enough low-wage and middle-income participants in the plan.

The second point is an interesting one because it drives some companies to be very aggressive in encouraging participation in their 401(k) plans. Many companies now have a process in place whereby new employees are automatically enrolled in the plan with some nominal contribution (4% or 5%) unless the employee opts out.

59 posted on 11/17/2012 4:59:25 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: fella

If the President changes rules to adversely affect the people, the people can change rules and adversely affect the President.

If rules change, then rules can change


60 posted on 11/17/2012 5:05:27 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: Alberta's Child
Exactly. The “pre-tax” contribution limit on 401k’s in 2012 is $17,000 per year, with an addition $5,500 for workers 50 and older who designate a “catch up contribution. And the total amount that both the employee and employer (if the employer provides a match) is at $50,000.

And what you speak of as an “income test” is known as Section 415 Anti-Discrimination Testing.

Plans with more than 100 participants undergo annual anti-discrimination tests to ensure that highly compensated employees are not receiving beneficial treatment under the plan. These tests compare the contributions and deferrals of highly paid workers and owners to the rest of the eligible employees. Highly compensated workers cannot contribute greater than 25% more than their fellow workers on average. Employees with contributions over the limit must undergo corrective action.

My company auto enrolls all eligible new hires at 3%. They can opt out but most don’t. My company matches up to 6% with each pay and it is 100% vested which is a very generous plan. Participants can also raise or lower their contribution % throughout the year but are capped at the current contribution limits.

61 posted on 11/17/2012 5:17:54 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Houghton M.
I don't think there's going to be any "rising up," either. But in this particular case, I also don't think there needs to be a popular uprising to make the policy completely counter-productive.

If I were in a certain age bracket and my 401(k) account was my biggest asset, a government "seizure" of this kind would be a huge incentive for me to simply withdraw the money without reporting it as taxable income. For that matter, I'd have no incentive to ever file a tax return again in my life.

62 posted on 11/17/2012 5:20:42 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: rocksandbroncs

This is expected. Once the bond markets club us, the government will go to the ONLY large pot of cash remaining, which are private retirement accounts.

They will seize those accounts, and replace them with a fixed annuity (i.e., monthly payment when you retire). That way the government gets to hold (i.e., spend) that cash, and it will pay for another 10 years or so of deficits.

The only way out of it is to have the money in hard assets, but even that is difficult, as the best assets are real estate, and that is already (and still) on steroids.

People, it’s either the above, or it’s a huge round of new federal taxes (i.e., no more Bush tax cut, new huge carbon tax, VAT, etc.). The only thing that I’m sure of is that something has to give, because this country is nowhere close to wanting to cut spending.


63 posted on 11/17/2012 5:22:42 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: CCGuy
If this is true this is THE FINAL STRAW before the government owns us. It will change everything and all the rules will be re-written.

And every election from now on will be about health care and retirement. The repub's want to take away and the dems want to give you more. Debt? Who cares. Price of gas? So what. Cut the military in half? Just gimme mine and let me watch the Kardashians

...before the government owns us. They don't have to own us-just be able to control us.

64 posted on 11/17/2012 5:23:07 AM PST by VRW Conspirator (We were the tea party before there was a tea party. - Jim Robinson)
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To: All

it may not happen soon, but likely will eventually happen.

I am at a loss as far as where to ‘hold’ my meager retirement savings. Small 401-k will likely decline with 0bama in office. Property as an investment seems to draw high property taxes. Gold is (or will be) taxed at high levels when over $1000 is ‘sold’ which is less than 1 ounce.
C/D interest levels stink. No good investement for the small invester...

any freeper ideas appreciatd.


65 posted on 11/17/2012 5:24:20 AM PST by CharlotteVRWC
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To: rocksandbroncs

“Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account.”

We need a Bill number to heck if this is true.
I remember some years ago this story popped up about some meeting where some woman wanted to confiscate 401K’s and IRA’s but nothing came of it.

To dump out of 401K’s and take the huge tax hit on speculaton is a very risky thing. People need to be sure there is something in the works before making such a move.


66 posted on 11/17/2012 5:24:46 AM PST by CapnJack
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To: spokeshave

“....anyone know how the Roth is affected....thanks in advance”

I too want to know how my IRA is going to be affected.

I really suspect this is just scare talk. But nonetheless I sent emails to the financial adviser that manages my IRA as well as an email to our GOP senator asking if there is any validity to this.

I suggest you do the same if you want information that could be considered accurate.


67 posted on 11/17/2012 5:26:17 AM PST by redfreedom (The spineless RINO's have made themselves irrelevent and lost the country for us.)
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To: Venturer

Indeed it is. Just one more in an ever growing list.


68 posted on 11/17/2012 5:29:25 AM PST by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: rocksandbroncs; All
Folks click on the link on Post 54, the Obamaton's and their Progressive Minions have been floating this idea since Oct 08'.

So while the Gold Bugs and the rest of our loonie news sources try to drum up fear, the Progressives are not hiding, this is no big secret they tell us exactly what they want to do and will proceed if it takes 20 year to do it just like any Commie Campaign, just look at Castro!

BTW, Investment News is a Weekly Financial Planner type Newspaper with lots of street cred in the Industry, this ain't some blogger in his underpants...

Also read the rest of that thread....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2959947/posts?page=54#54

69 posted on 11/17/2012 5:36:04 AM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: rocksandbroncs

bump for later


70 posted on 11/17/2012 5:38:50 AM PST by Ditter
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To: AllAmericanGirl44; All
Liz is full of it..

The WSJ in a book they published and what do do with your 401k, credits the 401k to a IRS worker named Cohen who petitioned his superiors to develop something in the code that would mimic the 403(b)'s that teachers have.

It may have been the only time in history that the IRS did something right...

That is the problem with an angry pants suit type like Warren, she can say crap like this and get away with it....

71 posted on 11/17/2012 5:41:26 AM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: eclectic

“More fearmongering from bullion peddlers?”

Yea, what will they think of next, Barry taking over health care? Oh wait...


72 posted on 11/17/2012 5:42:25 AM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: EVO X

Just buy guns.


73 posted on 11/17/2012 5:43:09 AM PST by Dusty Road
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To: rocksandbroncs

The article on which this blog is based is TWO YEARS OLD. It was posted on the website of the National Seniors Council. It referred to a hearing TWO YEARS AGO jointly sponsored by Treasury and Labor to look into lifetime income options in 401(k) and defined contribution plans.

However, having said that, I don’t disagree with the headline of the blog. The Obama Administration would like to seize all 401(k)s in the name of giving people a low cost annuity and have Social Security manage everything.

The guy who called this conference, Mark Iwry in Treasury, HATES 401(k)s and all the people called to testify are extreme leftists and Communists who also HATE 401(k)s because it puts retirement ownership and control in the hands of the people. They don’t like that because people who save for retirement get to have a better retirement. They call those people RICH.

But what it’s all about is the most successful people in society being targeted to take away the fruits of their success. It’s PURE EVIL.


74 posted on 11/17/2012 5:45:21 AM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: Tonytitan
Obama cannot carry out this scheme without a compliant Congress.

Obama won't get a compliant House. But he will test many proposals like this one against them and look for one with some traction and hammer it through with RINO support. I doubt this would be the one. But people should not underestimate the power of his class warfare message and his charge that Republicans are trying to "crash the economy". The issue he picks (maybe tax increases or a new federal financial authority) will be chosen to be both "unless you pass this the markets will crash" and "not passing this will only benefit the rich". Then he will get the compliant media to play those messages, engineer a market crash if the House votes it down, and ram it past the RINOs. It will actually be quite easy for him, although he will only be able to do it once or twice at most.

75 posted on 11/17/2012 5:52:12 AM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: rocksandbroncs

Yeah. Because this type of scare article won’t benefit the business which is hosting it. No sireee. No conflict of interest here.


76 posted on 11/17/2012 5:52:56 AM PST by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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To: palmer

What about barry just going around congress and executive ordering this action? Who would stand up to him?
He is already acting outside the law in a number of other ways, so what’s to stop him, his media? His senate?
He has more flexibility now.


77 posted on 11/17/2012 5:58:05 AM PST by Texas resident (Welcome to the nightmare)
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To: CCGuy
I was at IRA class all day yesterday and unfortunately this is true.
78 posted on 11/17/2012 6:05:28 AM PST by Garden Mama
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To: rocksandbroncs

Does anyone seriously doubt that Obama’s spendthrift henchmen (and women) have designs on that great big pot of money protected as 401K’s and IRA’s?

They won’t go for overnight total confiscation but they will come after it.

They will first require all 401’s to offer a Government T-Bill fund as an option.
Then they will move to require a certain percentage be invested in the T-Bill fund.

IRA’s are a little different but you can bet they will do somethng there as well.
Perhaps require a certain percentage be invested in T-Bills once you hit retirement age.

I wouldn’t count on Republicans to prevent this either.
This is a way to channel money into the treasury while still claiming they did not allow taxes to be increased.


79 posted on 11/17/2012 6:07:33 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Jiggle the Handle for Barry!")
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To: Texas resident
He'll do lots of executive orders on smaller issues. A good example is his war on coal, he has harassed the mining operations using the mine safety, OSHA, Dept of Trans, Energy, EPA, etc. It is death by a thousand cuts. More importantly it stays off the radar and the stupid voters of Ohio whose electric bills will skyrocket (over 80% of their power comes from coal) voted him back in.

Even though he doesn't have to worry about their votes any more, he is smart enough not to pick a big target like confiscation of 401k's to do with an EO. He can nickel and dime them to death with EO's and that won't surprise me. But if he wants to win on a big issue, he will demagogue the class warfare aspect and ram it through the House.

80 posted on 11/17/2012 6:08:04 AM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: Alberta's Child

Very good information. I think the bigger concern for the government was the fact that some workers do not have access to a 401(k) where they work. Additionally, they were concerned for those workers enrolled in a 401(k) that they were not being provided enough information and guidance on how to manage their 401(k). I don’t know about other Freepers, but the company I worked for until recently had been sending out a lot of information that covers the latter point.


81 posted on 11/17/2012 6:25:28 AM PST by CatOwner
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To: palmer

This Ohio voter did not vote for Obama. Neither did my county. In face, neither did most of the counties. Ohio’s problem has always been the mistake by the lake. Wonder if we could give it to Michigan?


82 posted on 11/17/2012 6:26:58 AM PST by carton253
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To: Kickass Conservative
In January 2015 when the Democrats retake control of the House, it won’t be a problem.

But of course, like every law, they'll exempt themselves.
83 posted on 11/17/2012 6:28:25 AM PST by crosshairs (Hurricane Barry is 1000 times more destructive than Hurricane Sandy.)
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To: rocksandbroncs

“This whole issue is moving forward very quickly,” warns Crone. “Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account.”

If employers had to enroll all employees in a pension plan, it would come off the top of employees salaries and further depress disposable incomes so much so that many would quit work and go on welfare.

As for forcing individuals with retirement accounts to buy gov treasuries or gov accounts, I think that scenario is still unlikely. This would cause panic withdrawals and would precipitate a financial collapse. Argentina nationalized retirement accounts and their market lost 40%. Argentina is a relatively small economy, so the world markets would not notice. But if this happened in the US, I don’t think there could be any question of a collapse.


84 posted on 11/17/2012 6:30:58 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: Garden Mama

Garden Mama,

Where was the class, and what was the name of the instructor?

Many thanks,
WH57


85 posted on 11/17/2012 6:33:46 AM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: KantianBurke

BINGO!!!

Your reply should be in big, bold font!


86 posted on 11/17/2012 6:36:31 AM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: palmer
Congress isn't really the problem here for an administration that might be hell-bent on implementing something like this. Obama couldn't do this even if Congress were filled with Marxists who had every intention of supporting this.

The biggest obstacle to this would be Wall Street itself -- which pretty much owns Congress and the White House anyway. Institutional investors and mutual funds -- many of which are dominated by tax-deferred accounts like IRAs and 401(k) plans -- would stop investing in corporate America completely. There's no way in hell these CEOs would allow this to happen.

87 posted on 11/17/2012 6:50:27 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: Kickass Conservative

I sadly could see this happening. We’re in big trouble.


88 posted on 11/17/2012 6:57:17 AM PST by Pinkbell
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To: CatOwner
Don't blush, but your naivete is showing.

The Dem icon-FDR--confiscated personally owned gold in the 30's.

Obama has told us repeatedly what he instends to do; now, he is setting about doing it:

Redistribution.(take from the haves and give to the have nots, work nots)

New taxes.(Obamacare)

a domestic force as large and well funded as our military (to do what to whom? to control the citizens who do not see things his way.)

Shred our Constitution, which he clearly stated 8 years before being elected was written flawed.(hundreds of executive orders, bypassing Congress)

I believe he is heading toward taking EVERYTHING we own. After all, HE knows best how to run the world.

Hope the Ostupid voters and cheaters who helped commit voter fraud enjoy the New Amerika.

vaudine

89 posted on 11/17/2012 7:01:44 AM PST by vaudine
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Executive orders are subject to judicial review and can be declared unconstitutional.

Not with John Roberts as the Chief Justice they won't be.

90 posted on 11/17/2012 7:02:24 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Executive orders are subject to judicial review and can be declared unconstitutional

To quote Justice Thomas, the SCOTUS is "evading" the NBC issue. What makes you think they'll lift a finger to stop anything the usurper does?

91 posted on 11/17/2012 7:04:59 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Darteaus94025

Oh now, THAT’s good! I started using the “k” long ago, but hadn’t thought of the “O” . . . . it should be the Obama “O” of course. Otherwise, my term for Obama supporters . . . and especially for anyone in his Administration . . . is “Obamanoids.” I figure they’re not real people.


92 posted on 11/17/2012 7:19:13 AM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: rocksandbroncs
Michelle Obama 2008:

… Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage.

Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed


93 posted on 11/17/2012 7:33:53 AM PST by opentalk
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To: Alberta's Child

That’s true. Wall St especially owns the Senate so it would be hard to pass there even with crypto-marxists like Warren up there. I think Obama and the Senate will pick some other issue (like tax hikes) to ram through the House.


94 posted on 11/17/2012 7:39:02 AM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: cynwoody

Executive Order===this won’t see Congress.

Anyone who has any money in a retirement account or a savings account or a Money Market account needs to pull this money & put it into a safe in their own home.

I think that Obama will emulate what Argentina did 2 1/2 years ago. They stole $69 BILLION out of PRIVATE pensions accounts over a weekend- electronically.

They didn’t attack UNION pensions or PUBLIC EMPLOYEES pensions. But they went after personal accounts & private business pensions, savings accounts and Money Market accounts.

This will collapse our banks, and the stock market. Some extimates are that the DOW will drop 10,000 points when he does this.

There are no boundaries for Obama—he thinks he can do as he pleases.


95 posted on 11/17/2012 7:40:51 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Why do you rob banks? That’s where the money is.

Interestingly enough, Willie Sutton didn’t say it, but did say this:

“You can’t rob a bank on charm and personality.”

Guess he was wrong.

Thanks rocksandbroncs.


96 posted on 11/17/2012 8:03:51 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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“You can get much further with a kind word and a gun then you can with a kind word alone.” — Al Capone


97 posted on 11/17/2012 8:05:49 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: CatOwner

Tell that to the people who had their gold confiscated by FDR.


98 posted on 11/17/2012 8:39:32 AM PST by redangus
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To: CatOwner

Tell that to the people who had their gold confiscated by FDR.


99 posted on 11/17/2012 8:39:51 AM PST by redangus
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To: cynwoody

Pishah....pass the House....that’s laughable.

All he needs to do is issue an executive order.


100 posted on 11/17/2012 8:41:47 AM PST by EBH (0bama is guilty of willful neglect of duty.)
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