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Is this even legal ? (OBAMA to bus people in to protest NRA in Albany. This is a big deal)
BarackObama.com ^ | 2/24/13 | Why, it's Barack Obama himself !

Posted on 02/23/2013 10:30:07 PM PST by Celerity

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To: Celerity
Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:00 AM - 4:00 PM

Yes, I'm sure a very representative portion of the population will be able to drop everything and spend an entire weekday marching around the capitol.

101 posted on 02/24/2013 8:46:39 AM PST by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
They are the ones who overreach, and they will do so in spectacular fashion if no one on our side wavers.

Yep. They keep poking and poking, but the only people killing are democrats. It has to stay that way.
Eventually, more and more leftists are going to go over the edge because we're not reacting the they want us to react. They won't be able to comprehend it. They think they understand us, but they don't.

102 posted on 02/24/2013 8:57:12 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: concerned about politics
Yep. You got it. The more shrill they get, the more people will be turned way.

Even their own will get uncomfortable with the rhetoric.

103 posted on 02/24/2013 9:15:38 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Celerity
Predictably, it is under attack by the National Rifle Association and allied groups. :::We are joining with the SEIU 1199 to lobby in Albany

What is a Union doing lobbying against a pro-gun group??

Does the NRA lobby against the unions?

Obama's "private army"?

104 posted on 02/24/2013 9:28:42 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Yep. You got it. The more shrill they get, the more people will be turned way. Even their own will get uncomfortable with the rhetoric.

Yep. Did you hear about Chris Mathews? He was referring to Oboma as THEE best president that ever lived - definitely a candidate for Mt. Rushmore. He was acting like he was on some kind of amphetamine drug. I expected him to start twitching uncontrollably any minute. He seriously looked like a mad man.
THAT guy is teetering on the edge. If we don't do something stupid and irrational to save him, he's not going to make it. That guy, I believe, is becoming another al gore (who went mad after losing in 2000 because clinton couldn't keep his penis in his pants).

105 posted on 02/24/2013 9:39:40 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: gitmo

I would say private replys only have a chance of being intercepted by the feds if they really archive every packet that hits level 3 peers in this country. The NSA uses a technology names Nora which scrubs all traffic passing through it (at different points in the country). Now this doesn’t mean they could decypher exactly what’s in this traffic, but if they want to investigate a particular person they look for their last associated IP addresses and then pull their traffic based upon that.
I would say if this site and it’s database is hosted independantly and only Jim or his staff have access to it you’re pretty safe unless he gets hacked.


106 posted on 02/24/2013 9:41:00 AM PST by miliantnutcase
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To: NormsRevenge

It’s his calling, community activist...

community activist = commun(ity activ)ist = communist activity


107 posted on 02/24/2013 9:48:28 AM PST by gnickgnack2 (QUESTION obama's AUTHORITY)
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To: Travis McGee

Some of us only get on Free Republic via our smartphones. Would love to watch it but you gotta make it available to mobile viewers.


108 posted on 02/24/2013 9:51:39 AM PST by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Celerity

Don’t overflow the system. Make them take YOU to the protest & then protest the protesters! Probably have to find your own way home, though. :-)

If I was in NY, that’s what I’d do.


109 posted on 02/24/2013 9:54:18 AM PST by Twotone (Marte Et Clypeo)
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To: R_Kangel

I get really sick of blanket statements like yours. Thousands are heading to Albany from Western New York to stand up for the 2nd Amendment Rights.

Over 3000 people stood up in Niagara Square in Buffalo on January 19th a cold winter day.

We are NOT keyboard activists. We stand up, we fight, we get in their faces, we will fight to the end.

Not everyone sits in front of their computer and complains. We fight.


110 posted on 02/24/2013 10:23:05 AM PST by The Mayor ("If you can't make them see the light, let them feel the heat" — Ronald Reagan)
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To: MrBambaLaMamba
If it's a bus from Syracuse, it'll probably be the same 8-10 Protest du jour people that seem to make signs and protest just about everything. I kid you not, I think they had a 1-2 small tent “occupy Syracuse” that nobody would have ever heard of except for the fact it was on the local news. I think between them they have about as many teeth as brain cells, and they're in need of serious dental work. Back in the 80’s I became familiar with the group as my librarian from HS was/is one of them. What I mean by familiar is that when I see her ugly face at the monthly protest du jour on tv, it's always surrounded by the same people, only older. We used to be happy when she'd miss school for being arrested for trying to scale the fence at Griffith Air Force Base, because obviously that would make the U.S. rid itself of all nuclear weapons. But at least it rid our school of her for a while.
111 posted on 02/24/2013 10:47:50 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Celerity; neverdem; The Mayor; Behind Liberal Lines; Steely Tom; lysie; panaxanax

NYS goings on.


112 posted on 02/24/2013 10:53:02 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Celerity

My wife(wxrgina) and I attended a pro 2nd amendment rally in Mobile,AL yesterday. She has spoken at several of these Tea Party type rallies. It’s always the same 75-100 people. That is pretty sad in a metro area of around 500,000 mostly conservatives.

WE ARE LOSING THIS BATTLE!

Everybody better get some skin in the game or it’s over.


113 posted on 02/24/2013 10:59:08 AM PST by logitech (Who's here so vile, that will not love his country? If any speak, for him I have offended)
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To: WXRGina

ping


114 posted on 02/24/2013 11:01:31 AM PST by logitech (Who's here so vile, that will not love his country? If any speak, for him I have offended)
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To: concerned about politics
NY is a very liberal state. Why would they have to bus in even one person?

Because Upstate NY is NOT liberal. Check out a county by county red/blue election map and you'll see where all the cities are.

There are more guns than people here and hunting is very big. And we have spoken out. That's why they're doing this.

NYC is the reason for NY being blue.The rest of us wish we could cut it off at the city line, push it out to sea, and pull the plug.

115 posted on 02/24/2013 11:03:11 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Smokin' Joe
The more they tighten down the screws, the more they lose--the more people say 'Wait a minute, that isn't right!'.

It reminds me of the line in Star Wars where Princess Leia says, "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

116 posted on 02/24/2013 11:06:06 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
You can be reasonably certain that some of the counter-protest organizers will be carrying weapons, including concealed firearms.

They will also include some tall, heavy, and very strong young men as "security", and a few short, skinny, aggressive zealots to to dart in among and taunt the 2A supporters. There will be a number of pretty young women with cell phone cameras present to record the festivities.

Most of the counter-protesters will be unaware of these organizational details. They will be genuinely surprised if anything unpleasant actually happens.

The game is to publicly humiliate opposition, and to provoke an incident that can be used to motivate leftist supporters. It is a winning situation (for them) either way.

Plan accordingly.

117 posted on 02/24/2013 11:16:58 AM PST by flamberge (What next?)
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To: Celerity
So he's taking tax money from gun owners and paying anti-gun jobless riffraff to go protest. Then the media will magnify the protest so that it seems the entire country is opposed to a few dozen skin heads and hillbillys.

It's getting harder and harder to even talk to democrats, like my own parents.

118 posted on 02/24/2013 11:21:48 AM PST by DungeonMaster (How does God feel about gay marriage?)
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To: Celerity

Legal? Yes, as this is a private organization. If it was a government organization, or a government official/employee was to attend and identify themselves as such, it would be a violation of the Hatch Act.


119 posted on 02/24/2013 11:32:35 AM PST by Hulka
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To: miliantnutcase
There can be no expectation of privacy or anonymity for anything conveyed by the Internet.

NSA is already believed to be archiving virtually all e-mail traffic in the USA, and one should reasonably expect that all political websites get continuous monitoring as well.

It might be a tedious job to search the 4 degrees of connections that link your communications with another person but it is technically quite straight forward to do such a thing for an organization with a good search engine and lots of disk storage farms.

The only other thing needed is a bunch of junior level staffers to pore over the search results until they find what was requested.

Of course, the trace request for you might be number 17,534 in the list and the staff may not get around to it for a while.

Plan accordingly.

120 posted on 02/24/2013 11:52:49 AM PST by flamberge (What next?)
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To: flamberge

The chair is against the wall.
The chair is against the wall.
John has a long mustache.
John has a long mustache.


121 posted on 02/24/2013 12:00:05 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: metmom; NormsRevenge; Sarah Barracuda; meyer; Eagles6; R_Kangel; Standing Wolf; INVAR; ...

Ok, I think I have a plan. (This is long, so if you need, just read the beginning and conclusion paragraphs)

I’m going to reserve a seat tomorrow. I’ll report back here and tell everyone what questions they are asking. I seriously don’t think they will have information on you to confirm the seat or to track back to you in any way.

I have to drive through NYS state day anyway, but Albany is 2.5 hours out of my way, and Syracuse is literally 6 hours out of my way. I’m talking about 2 full tanks of gas to do this operation, and I would have to leave at about 4 am.

In my experience in these union events, everyone will meet and get psyched up at the original point. They will be instructed on which bus to board, where they will be going, and will be promised a private speech with someone at the end point.

People are loaded onto a bus, they stop for mcdonalds, and then they arrive at the capitol in front of the building. There they are led into the building and seated / stood in a large meeting room or hall.

The expectation is to have a speech delivered by the Dem who works with the Union. There is a chance that it may be a speech from Cuomo himself. The chances of seeing this and recording such an event isn’t worth the hours and hours of driving I have to do, have someone pick me up at the destination (for extraction) and then somehow return to my life.

It would be great to get someone on FR who is near these places to do the InfilOp and get some footage, but those chances are slim.

If I were closer (I don’t know how, really, I live on the damned state border and any closer would be to live under tyranny) I would do this, but I simply can’t gather the funds, time, and people necessary to make this a success.

If someone else wants to get involved, message me, and maybe we can pool resources. Ideally I will be travelling along 84 that day, and skipping that god forsaken state as much as I can.

As far as our actions now and in the future - Violence isn’t the answer that we are looking for. Our opposition uses many things that can be easily sabotaged and used in our advantage without a single shot being fired. The modern battlefield (Of which history will recall that we have been mired in since 2000) is not fought with classic strategies. One can not simply show up at a meeting of communists and traitors and open fire and claim victory. What you can do is sabotage their coffee makers, the PA systems, the buses, the cameras, and shut down their spirit. These people’s spirits are based on what goodies they get.

You see, at the end of the day, our opposition isn’t an invading army. It’s our own countrymen (For better or for worse). We can’t just lash out at them, or else they will build a case against us that will ultimately lose a war regardless of weapons that are in play.

Key: Whatever you do, make it FUNNY. These people HATE funny things done to them. Obama HATES being made fun of. These people are very small, very crushed people who simply lack the control over their lives that a truly free person has - The freedom to laugh if their car gets spray painted. When you are crushed underfoot, little things ruin your life. When you’re “big” and in control of your destiny, the important things are the protected things.

Enough of the philosophy though. The action :

Show up to a rally with a quadrotor drone (That you own). Record them. Hover just over their heads. Let them know what they are dealing with.

Mix it up. Show up to rally, offer to hold a sign, then alter the sign with a marker and stand amongst them. Get in photos. Record their actions. It’s funny as hell.

Get in front of cameras as a liberal. Say stupid stuff, dress like a moron, cross your eyes - whatever. They HATE that. Keep it humorous though.

Here is one that I do, it’s not really “Legal” but it’s not really “Illegal” either. I walk amongst the crowds and pick their pockets. I don’t keep stuff, I just take it out of their pockets and drop it on the ground immediately. Cell phones, keys, money, whatever. Total chaos. I have a small pair of shears that fits in my sleeve. Their ID badges, pocket books, whatever - On the ground. I cut their shoelaces so they are too short to tie. Things that could have just “happened”.

Union reps are known people. You can get their cell phone numbers (Most don’t even use a desk phone) and hand the number out. Craigslist ads, free listings. Even respond to craiglist ads with their numbers. Make them wonder they are getting a ton of call-backs for shoddy apartments in Chicago.

All of this stuff is easy to do, fun, and makes more of an impact on them than any violent action.

Cloward Piven strategies taught them that they could destroy the system that they don’t want by merely overloading it. Well, it appears that they now own the system - So use the same tactics. Overload their public organizing, overload their emails, their cell phones, their voicemails. Park so close to their driver’s door that they can’t get in their car. They love that stuff. They do it all the time.

When it comes to the Gun Control rallies, we are in a different state of affairs. Listen to me: The lines are already drawn. The state of NY is GOING to get a complete gun ban. There is no fight left to fight anymore. The state was lost when the elected officials in play got their positions - It was part of their election.

We are GOING to get a federal ban. I have heard the phrase “We need to have a discussion about common sense gun laws” a billion times already. We have had the conversation. The elite officials have said “I want to ban guns” and the people have overwhelmingly said “No.” Conversation over. Albany has already had one of the best “Discussions” about gun bans, where the people actually stated (I’m amazed) “What are the penalties if we say no?” The conversation is over at that moment. They want to keep “talking” but what they are doing is “Unilaterally deciding” We all know this. Stop showing up. Start caching. The lines are already drawn, and enforcement is already in play - even though the laws haven’t been passed.

The signs are posted. If your town or county hasn’t declared it’s pro 2nd-amendment stance, then it is not friendly to patriots.

In conclusion, my post is about balance. We can’t just declare war and start shooting people. We can’t just sit and let it happen, and contacting representatives shows no sign of success. What’s left to do is hunker down in an area where you are welcome, becoming more local-oriented, and striking back at the progressives using tactics that are shown to work. “Hacktivism”, Humor, and living well are things that Progressives HATE. So do that. You know you are on the right track when they call out to lawmakers to jail you, or you see your actions on the news.

For instance, Progressives HATE pro gun t-shirts. They HATE seeing blacks with a conservative vote. They HATE seeing women in positions of power, and women who hold conservative values. And they HATE all minorities. You can tell because of how they attack these people incessantly. They don’t seem to be bothered by gun owners (for reasons I have stated before) because Gun owners play right into their tactics. They see us as irritated, frustrated, and prone to lash out. Like a bully, they zero in on your actions. So play their game. Zero in on the stuff that makes them go ballistic.


122 posted on 02/24/2013 12:02:19 PM PST by Celerity
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To: Celerity

Celerity, please ping me on your report afterward!


123 posted on 02/24/2013 12:21:19 PM PST by WXRGina (The Founding Fathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Travis McGee

bump...


124 posted on 02/24/2013 12:36:32 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Travis McGee

bump...


125 posted on 02/24/2013 12:36:32 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Travis McGee

bump...


126 posted on 02/24/2013 12:36:37 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Twotone
YEAH! Exactly what my better half said...

Only problem I can see with that is, it might be a little more difficult than just getting a ride back home...NOT that I'm saying there would be any violence directed toward any "on-site opposition", of course.../ S

127 posted on 02/24/2013 12:57:45 PM PST by 88keys (What did WE do to deserve this?!)
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To: MacMattico
Dilemma: laugh or cry at this story? LOL!

Very funny story, but the thought that these "protesters du jour" are gaining such ground in their old age is enough to make one cry, for sure..."occupy Syracuse" is funny, but the POTUS election result consequences from 2012 certainly are not...

Methinks we need some kind of a plan here?!

128 posted on 02/24/2013 1:07:49 PM PST by 88keys (What did WE do to deserve this?!)
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To: Celerity
New York Times page 1 story yesterday seems to think Obama's Organizing for Action is a bad idea.

They quote someone who says it smells.

Obama's little extra-constitutional slime move

129 posted on 02/24/2013 1:16:54 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Celerity
YOU GO!!

Awesome post, great insights, and most heartening to read!

Even if it's "one step at a time", I am sure these ideas and tactics would also work in Ohio, and etc. etc...THANKS! and good luck!

130 posted on 02/24/2013 1:24:40 PM PST by 88keys (never do NOTHING, unless it's really the best strategery)
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To: Sooth2222
But the amazing part is that the Obamanistas feel the need to astroturf an NRA event in Albany, New York. This is like Last Stand Hill was for Custer.

I fully agree with your sentiment but I would compare what's going on in NYS as more of a Bunker Hill type battle. It's a Progressive victory that is costing them a lot and in the end won't win them the war.

131 posted on 02/24/2013 1:31:14 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: flamberge

Your post is the situation exactly. I KNOW that Freep gets scouted by the government. This is a fact. There are users setup here to listen to the chatter, just as there is on DU.

That’s something that people do in wartime. We are at war. There are no shots fired, but there is still a fair share of military actions taking place on US Soil that the line is being blurred.

I only rest knowing that the mods here at FR are on our side, and won’t be sending any emails that read “THERE HE IS ! UNDER THE TREE READING A BOOK ! GET HIM!”. Are there others on here that would do that ? Sure.

The key here is that the system of “Most wanted” is already tapped out. There are literally so many 100s of 1000s of people on this list, that we’re far at the bottom. In fact, I know that a few letter agencies have a “top 1000” list of people they are looking for - that will never be found.

The system of our opposition is already taxed. Like Gun registration - If you believe that the ATF gets rid of files, you’re not very smart. The ATF DOES keep records that live on forever. They have reports and data that is constantly referred to. The only problem is that data is such garbage that no executive decision can be made based on it. It’s level of confidence is like 10%. The idea of a new gun registration program is to increase the confidence of their data to try and save some of the data they already have.

And that’s why it’s important to crash their every effort. They are now trying to enhance their ATF data with medical record (EMS) of people who own guns, so they can cross-reference the data and gauge their error rates. Destroy that system now while you can.

I say we all buy ammo, personally, and just sell it between us so we avoid having to present ID at the counter for future purchases.. Just as a precaution. I am only to buy ammo in small amounts, but welcome the private sale of anything I can to keep not just the patriot off the radar, but to make this data so completely incorrect that using it will be an exercise in futility.

I would REALLY like to afford to stop in to NYS gun stores to buy ammo now. Even with ID. So at least I mess up the records and charts so badly that no one can do anything with them.


132 posted on 02/24/2013 1:40:17 PM PST by Celerity
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To: concerned about politics; Smokin' Joe

133 posted on 02/24/2013 1:55:10 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: concerned about politics
RIGHT ON! RIGHT ON! RIGHT ON!

Use Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals AGAINST the Socialist-DemoRATS. Learn how to strategise like the left does and use it AGAINST THEM!

As Alinsky said, “insight your enemy to anger and THEN USE that anger as a weapon AGAINST THEM.

As you have said, concerned about politics, “wait and watch. The left will be the ones who start something. They're overly emotional and have no foresight. We can use their anger against them instead. The democrats/socialists/communists have run out of other peoples money. The dependent left isn't going to be happy when their politicians can no longer steal for them. So, wait and let THEM be the “insane crazies that need to be controlled.”

You've summed it up perfectly. Let's take heed and use this tactic on the left....we must ALL be in this together and do it as a whole.

134 posted on 02/24/2013 2:08:14 PM PST by itssme
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To: gitmo
“Do you think the private button hides words from the Feds? They claimed during Clinton's rule to monitor every word on the www.”

I don't know. That's why I'm asking for suggestions, ideas on what we could do.

Definitely, we have to get involved with other like-minded people and share ideas and plans with them privately, face to face, and www.oathkeepers.org provides this opportunity based on how their operation is set up that makes this possible. Check them out.

Other than the above mentioned idea, does anyone have any ideas how we can communicate privately with each other about plans and ideas?

135 posted on 02/24/2013 2:17:07 PM PST by itssme
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To: Celerity

” It will reduce gun violence in our state.”

Of course. Gun control laws have such a great track record./sarc


136 posted on 02/24/2013 2:23:51 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Celerity

Very very good. I particularly like anything that uses humor to make them look like the fools they are. The use of humor requires a higher order of thinking and intelligence that is beyond the capability of most of these mindless goons. They know that and they hate it.


137 posted on 02/24/2013 2:40:19 PM PST by patriotsblood
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To: Celerity

Legal? Sure. But it’s illuminating that he’s involving himself so directly in what’s supposed to be local state legislation, between Gov. Cuomo Jr. and his subject—I mean citizens.


138 posted on 02/24/2013 2:40:42 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: flamberge
The game is to publicly humiliate opposition, and to provoke an incident that can be used to motivate leftist supporters. It is a winning situation (for them) either way. Plan accordingly.
If that's their game plan, there must be a way to beat them at their own game. Remember, for better or worse, the internet does NOT come with an eraser.
139 posted on 02/24/2013 2:58:17 PM PST by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: All
New thread on this subject here.

I just signed up for their bus ride using this untraceable e-mail account and phone #s and zipcode for Syracuse NY I found with a search engine.

140 posted on 02/24/2013 3:22:37 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Celerity

Praying for a foot of snow in Albany on Feb.28!


141 posted on 02/24/2013 3:33:56 PM PST by miserare
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To: onyx

Roberts and who else?

For the sake of national security, everything that happens with SCOTUS justices should be in a black box for later perusal if necessary. All communications, at all times.

Give them all some truth serum or something, and find out exactly what the heck has been done to them.


142 posted on 02/24/2013 4:39:58 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

He appointed two commie women.


143 posted on 02/24/2013 4:42:06 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: TigersEye
I just signed up for their bus ride using this untraceable e-mail account and .....

Once again - there is no such thing as an "untraceable' e-mail account.

The "anonymity" of such things is merely a polite convention. If the-powers-that-be have sufficient motivation, they can and will track down the authors of any "interesting" correspondence.

And who exactly do you suppose are the people who set up the "anonymous" e-mail and proxy systems? How do you suppose they make enough money to cover their expenses?

144 posted on 02/24/2013 4:43:48 PM PST by flamberge (What next?)
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To: 101stAirborneVet

Currahee!


145 posted on 02/24/2013 4:44:10 PM PST by Baron 2A (Those that can, do; those who can't, teach; those who do neither become journalists!)
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To: TigersEye

I’m seeing rumors on Facebook that it’s been canceled. Maybe they were swamped with calls. lol.


146 posted on 02/24/2013 4:48:56 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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To: flamberge
Once again - there is no such thing as an "untraceable' e-mail account.

It no longer exists which is all that's necessary.

The "anonymity" of such things is merely a polite convention. If the-powers-that-be have sufficient motivation, they can and will track down the authors of any "interesting" correspondence.

I can't imagine anything more non-sequitur to this context. Your paranoia is amusing.

147 posted on 02/24/2013 4:52:17 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Nita Nupress

Heh heh heh.


148 posted on 02/24/2013 4:53:36 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: TigersEye
I can't imagine anything more non-sequitur to this context. Your paranoia is amusing.

My "paranoia" is the result of my professional experience.

Have fun on your bus ride. Infiltration of an enemy camp is often an educational experience if one keeps a very low profile. Send me a post card afterwards.

Stay safe!

149 posted on 02/24/2013 5:13:45 PM PST by flamberge (What next?)
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To: flamberge

I’m not going on any bus ride. I live 1,800 miles from Albany. LOL


150 posted on 02/24/2013 5:20:29 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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