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Extreme poverty is also a violation of human rights, says Argentinean cardinal (New Pope)
Catholic News Agency ^ | Oct 1, 2009 | Staff

Posted on 03/14/2013 6:19:02 AM PDT by LucianOfSamasota

The Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has called for an ethical response to solve the problem of social debt, saying that, not only do terrorism, repression and murder violate human rights, but also extreme poverty and the “unjust economic structures that give rise to great inequalities.”

Social debt is “immoral, unjust and illegitimate,” the cardinal said, emphasizing that this is especially true when it occurs “in a nation that has the objective conditions for avoiding or correcting such harm.” “Unfortunately,” he noted, it seems that those same countries “opt for exacerbating inequalities even more.”

Argentineans have the duty “to work to change the structural causes and personal or corporate attitudes that give rise to this situation (of poverty), and through dialogue reach agreements that allow us to transform this painful reality we refer to when we speak about social debt,” the prelate said.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: pope
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To: PotatoChop

Oh Please. Pointing out that there are poor people in the world and their situation should improve does not make one a Communist.....he doesn’t get into the “how”.

In fact, one of the most damning aspects of Communism, or big government in general, is that it relieves the individual from taking responsibility for the poverty around them. If I am paying 50% of my wages in taxes, it sure doesn’t leave much left to help the poor, and in fact, big government tends to discourage private charity, because they want to have the monopoly on charity, to enhance their power over the individual.


51 posted on 03/14/2013 7:38:04 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Make your own way in this world or lie down and die!!!


52 posted on 03/14/2013 7:45:27 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: LucianOfSamasota

“Social debt is “immoral, unjust and illegitimate,”

Send my check so y’all can feel good about yourselves again and make it a big check so the feeling lasts.


53 posted on 03/14/2013 7:47:43 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: goldstategop
But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor and those who are imprisoned rather than work to help them transform themselves.

I don't disagree with the way your post reads, nor the points you make. But wouldn't you agree that the poor need to meet us halfway? Certainly in this country, the key elements that separate those in poverty from becoming financially independent: a solid education, a healthy lifestyle, hard work, thriftiness, perserverance, and a general avoidance of bad choices--drugs, gangs, crime. Promiscuity that leads to unwed motherhood. Fatherless children.

54 posted on 03/14/2013 7:52:09 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: goldstategop

My kids were born in Catholic hospitals and my husband works in one. That is still not the point. The question is when the Catholic church owns an incredible amount of the worlds wealth yet continues to accept $ from the poorest areas in the world, how does the pope lecture us how to care for the poor? Does he not see the hypocrisy in his position? I personally don’t care how much wealth the Vatican owns - they have to answer only to Christ for what they do with it. I just find the contradictions stunning.


55 posted on 03/14/2013 7:56:38 AM PDT by Mom MD (A million people attended Obamas inauguration. 14 of them actually missed work)
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To: iacovatx

Hear hear! Short, to the point, outstanding post.


56 posted on 03/14/2013 8:03:28 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: dfwgator

Agreed and unbridled at that.


57 posted on 03/14/2013 8:06:56 AM PDT by Patriot365
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To: goldstategop

But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor....

&&&
Yes, that is true. But I think it is a knee-jerk reaction to what often gets defined as poor in our country and to the wrong methods our government uses in what it claims is a way to solve poverty.


58 posted on 03/14/2013 8:11:07 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: muawiyah
A big issue throughout much of Latin America and the Third World is a question of deeds to property ~ the laws don't protect the poor, and the governments do not enforce what rights they have to property. In the United States we have laws that are enforced. They are revolutionary ~ and we think that's how things ought to be.

The issue in the Third World is that the oligarchies work to prevent "outsiders" from making money, by making successful business creation a monopoly of the "insiders".

Corruption plays an important role. If you are not an insider, you will have an endless stream of bureaucrats, regulators, and inspectors harassing you for bribes, which drains funds from a start-up, and hampers success. You can also forget about government contracts (or you may get the contract, but have difficulty getting paid).

Conversely, if you are a well-connected insider, the bureaucrats know better than to demand bribes, you are promptly paid, and you are likely to be successful even if you're not that bright.

The central objective of the oligarchy is preventing smart and energetic outsiders from rising. They don't want a middle-class to compete with them. They want a mass of poor people to supply them with servants and mistresses.

59 posted on 03/14/2013 8:13:38 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: goldstategop

If he repents


60 posted on 03/14/2013 8:24:30 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Rapscallion
Observe the splendor in which the pope lives and in which the Vatican operates. Despite the splendor of the Vatican, which was constructed to glorify God, certainly recent Popes have lived relatively simple lives. Their living quarters are hardly palatial, and their typical day is filled with much prayer and work, from what I've seen.

The "wealth" of the Vatican has been accumulated over centuries, and much of it is illiquid. There is priceless art, such as Michelangelo's frescoes, the Pieta, and the Bernini sculptures, but all would be difficult to value and sell.

I do think that God wants us to live to our full potential, and care for those who are not fully there yet. I think he also wants us to help those who could not help themselves, but the challenge I have is separating those who cannot, from those who WILL NOT help themselves.

61 posted on 03/14/2013 8:27:33 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Mom MD
I’m not Catholic bashing, but I have often wondered how the Catholic church reconciles it’s great wealth and opulence with the poverty of some of it’s people

The "great wealth" of which you speak, has been accumulated over centuries, and much of it is illiquid. Selling St. Peter's Basillica to Walmart--so they can have a Vatican City presence--would hurt more Catholics than it would help.

Why do you not also look at the charitible institutions provided by the Church? The hospitals, the orphanages, the ministries in foreign, inhospitable lands? India, Africa, South and Central America?

62 posted on 03/14/2013 8:36:22 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Lou L

The Catholic church does good things as do most Christian denominations. But I know of no other Church (not cult) that has accUmulated anywhere near the assets of the Catholics. Again, I don’t care how much they own - I am just pointing out the contradiction of fighting for “social justice” while sitting on the largest fortune in the world. Not all could be liquidated but some of it certainly could.


63 posted on 03/14/2013 8:47:05 AM PDT by Mom MD (A million people attended Obamas inauguration. 14 of them actually missed work)
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To: PapaBear3625
Which, of course, takes place at a higher economic level in the United States. Warren Buffett is a good example of this. He wants the gub'mnt to heavily tax the people who earn less than him LEST they get as rich as him and deprive him of what he thinks is his right to another few billion bucks!

He has his lackeys like Obama work hard to make sure this happens.

64 posted on 03/14/2013 8:48:08 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Mom MD
It is a common belief that churches are readily sold ~ bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, they were constructed for the uses to which they are put ~ and paid for by people who wanted a church. Those same people are also the ones who give extensively to charity. About the time a religious organization starts rejecting the gift of a church they'll lose the rest of it as well.

65 posted on 03/14/2013 8:52:08 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: goldstategop
"But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor and those who are imprisoned rather than work to help them transform themselves."

Excuse me, but I've been on this forum and other "right oriented" fora, and I don't see much, if any, evidence to support that assertion. What people on the right criticize are those that WANT to be "useless eaters", not those who actually want to do something with their lives.

66 posted on 03/14/2013 8:54:10 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: xzins
Dear xzins,

That is a good economic analysis. I hope that you're right that Pope Francis gets this, too.

But I'm concerned because I've seen it said that he's criticized untrammeled “free enterprise.” I hope that's wrong or a bad translation. Free enterprise isn't the problem. Corporatism is.

Time will tell.


sitetest

67 posted on 03/14/2013 8:59:15 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

Define “untrammeled free enterprise”.

Do you think Jesus would condone charging $100 for a bottle of water in a disaster area? Is this not an example of “untrammeled free enterprise”?

Now my position is that while I would indeed criticize “free enterprise” in this case, I would also recognize that government efforts to clamp down, would be a case of the “cure being even worse than the disease”, and most likely result in shortages.


68 posted on 03/14/2013 9:04:14 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Please do some research on the “Jesuits” in South America. they were running guns for the Nicaraguan Daniel Ortega communist in the 1980’s. In fact there was an American “Jesuit” who was arrested for running guns and hiding them in the local church in South America.

Any time you see the expression “human rights” is code for “communism.” Who is suppose to be paying for all these so called [poor] that the United States tax payers don't already pay for? This is why most attempts at communism has never worked. The Catholic Church supported Obamacare (commie-care) until they were back stabbed by Obama, when he forced the Catholic Church to provide contraceptives to everyone. Only then did the Church oppose Obamacare. the Catholic Church with this new Pope will support all communism around the world on behalf of "human rights, after all it will be for the "children!" Sound familiar? Exactly what the communist Obama and his ilk used to push through commie-care and now gun control legislation!

69 posted on 03/14/2013 9:08:27 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: PotatoChop

Are you suggesting that all Jesuits think alike on these matters?


70 posted on 03/14/2013 9:15:06 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop

CAPITALISM is the system that generates the least poverty:
socialism as demonstrated by France4, Britain, etc. fail
to produce a viable system.


71 posted on 03/14/2013 9:24:04 AM PDT by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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To: dfwgator; xzins
Dear dfwgator,

Exceptions aside (selling bottled water in disaster areas), there aren’t any places in the world that are suffering from excesses of free enterprise, untrammeled or otherwise. In the present world, “untrammeled free enterprise” is just not a cause of poverty. Anywhere. At all.

As xzins pointed out, poverty is much more often caused by various forms of socialism, especially that form of socialism often confused for a form of capitalism, corporatism.


sitetest

72 posted on 03/14/2013 9:27:48 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

Well suffice to say, I don’t think the Pope has much impact on economics in the first place. Just throws out some niceties, but in reality, nobody is going to do anything on this just because “the Pope said so.”


73 posted on 03/14/2013 9:29:59 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop
But many on the Right act as if we should punish the poor and those who are imprisoned rather than work to help them transform themselves. If we are hard-hearted we cannot build a decent and just society.

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." -- 2 Thessalonians 3:10

I'm fine with feeding those who CANNOT work -- the actual disabled. I'm not fine with subsidizing those who have no interest in work, and haughtily expect me to subsidize their idleness. And the people currently in US prisons are mostly there for good reasons.

74 posted on 03/14/2013 9:31:46 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: dfwgator

Not at all. I was commenting on the statements made by the new pope.


75 posted on 03/14/2013 9:35:03 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: dfwgator
Do you think Jesus would condone charging $100 for a bottle of water in a disaster area? Is this not an example of “untrammeled free enterprise”?

Do you think Jesus would condone people dying of thirst because of price controls?

Any place where water can be sold for $100/bottle is guaranteed to have everybody around it loading up any vehicle that can get there with as much water as it can carry. And that vital water will get there days before FEMA will be able to get its act together.

76 posted on 03/14/2013 9:35:40 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I addressed that. I understand that in an economic sense it does avoid shortages...but still, when you stand in front of St. Peter don’t expect him to look at you with much favor.


77 posted on 03/14/2013 9:37:51 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: PotatoChop

Why don’t we both just wait and see what he actually does....You could very well be right....but at least give the guy a chance first.


78 posted on 03/14/2013 9:39:49 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop

Before I read another post on the thread, I pause to tip my hat. Well said - VERY well said.


79 posted on 03/14/2013 9:41:02 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: goldstategop
In the good old days when we had more people self employed they could employ people.

I have a little rental property and with all the rules, regs, liabilities. I DARE NOT help anyone in my small business.

80 posted on 03/14/2013 9:44:31 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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To: dfwgator
Dear dfwgator,

So... what you're saying is that it's okay to talk like an economic illiterate because no one will pay attention to him, anyway.

I disagree. Many leftist scum pseudo-Catholics harshly criticized Paul Ryan in the last election because they were able to paint his free-market reforms of Medicare as being a violation of Catholic social teaching. A majority of Catholics voted for Satan's bitch, and perhaps some of them were influenced by the ability of leftist scum pseudo-Catholics to make the case that Rep. Ryan's proposals were immoral, in Catholic terms.

It would be greatly helpful to have a pope who does not talk like an economic illiterate. As I pointed out, perhaps he's being misquoted or mistranslated, or maybe the lamestream media is making it up of whole cloth. But my hope is that he doesn't tie the travails of the poor to “untrammeled free enterprise,” as nowhere in the world today is there much untrammeled free enterprise to harm the poor or anyone else.


sitetest

81 posted on 03/14/2013 10:25:12 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: from occupied ga

The Catechism of the church... specifically needs to be repeated over an over... and sometimes very loudly in the presence of our Bishops & Priests. Pope Francis’ actions in Argentina indicate that he gets it... unlike many American Bishops.

1885 The principle of subsidiarity is opposed to all forms of collectivism. It sets limits for state intervention. It aims at harmonizing the relationships between individuals and societies. It tends toward the establishment of true international order.


82 posted on 03/14/2013 11:27:55 AM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

We must “share the wealth” via UN global taxation and welfare programs.

He’s an “intelluctual” Jesuit. That is what that means.


83 posted on 03/14/2013 11:33:58 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: dfwgator
Absolutely! I get concerned anytime I read statements like: “. . . “opt for exacerbating inequalities even more.” This is almost the identical statement made by the Obama communist: “level the playing field” “Pay your fair share” or “give everyone an equal chance.”

But, I do agree, he deserve a chance just like anyone else does.

Thank you for reminding me not to be judgmental of others until the proof is available to set forth facts to the contrary.

84 posted on 03/14/2013 11:44:47 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: knittnmom

See post number 43; Hernando de Soto is a contemporary Peruvian economist who wrote about this.


85 posted on 03/14/2013 11:57:19 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: muawiyah

Fascinating topic, isn’t it. We’re quite blessed to live when we do; going forward, I’m sure this system must be one of the Liberal Democrats targets for destrucion.


86 posted on 03/14/2013 11:59:53 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Rich21IE

Thanks.


87 posted on 03/14/2013 12:08:15 PM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: LucianOfSamasota

To intentionally cause extreme poverty among people or to deliberately keep them there is indeed a violation of human rights. When their own behavior causes or keeps them impoverished, it is not.

The progressive left’s problem is that (1) their policies cause the violations and (2) they don’t recognize the difference.


88 posted on 03/14/2013 1:28:40 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: PotatoChop
Any time you see the expression “human rights” is code for “communism.” I think the one that refers to communism is "social justice", not human rights. But I could be wrong!
89 posted on 03/14/2013 1:44:18 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: PotatoChop
Any time you see the expression “human rights” is code for “communism.”

I think the one that refers to communism is "social justice", not human rights. But I could be wrong!

90 posted on 03/14/2013 1:52:42 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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