Posted on 03/18/2014 9:10:05 PM PDT by varmintman
I'm not the world's foremost expert on Russia... But I believe I know enough to at least try to clear up a few of the misconceptions I see on forums and have been listening to on talk radio for the past few weeks.
A bit of Russian history for starters... Slavic farmers invited Vikings (Verangians) into what you'd now call Russia and set up the Kievan state which adopted Christianity around 988 AD so that the territory controlled by the city of Kiev was the dominant power in Russia prior to the Mongol invasion in 1236. In other words, they'd fought Polovyetski/Cumins and other nomad tribes to a sort of a standstill which appeared to be a workable state of affairs and then they got run over by a military avalanch and an empire whose military technology was 300 years ahead of the rest of the world.
Russia spent the next 140 years or so under the "Mongol Yoke" before the princes of Moscow managed to win a huge battle over the Golden Horde at Kulikovo in 1380, only to have the white and golden hordes unite a couple of years later and plow Russia under foot again where she would have remained for another century or two, nonetheless shortly thereafter Tamerlane came through and annihilated the Golden Horde. Unlike the situation with Genghis Khan who had utterly competent heirs, Tamerlane's empire began to crumble shortly after his death in the first few years of the 1400s, leaving much of Russia a sort of a shambles and Southern Russia what was called "wild fields". Jews living in what had been the remains of the Khazar kingdom prior to that time finally had enough and started moving to Poland and Germany and for a period of a century or so until Russia started to get organized again, Poland and Lithuania began to look like serious countries on maps. In those days, the Ukraine was part of Poland and one of the biggest if not THE biggest celebrations there ever was in the Ukraine was when Russia took it over in the 1700s.
The Ukrainian language is basically the language of the principality of Kiev while modern Russian is basically the language of the principality of Suzdal and the city of Moscow. At some point, the languages of the various places which comprised Russia must have fused, which is presumably why you have more than one system for verb formations and declension endings. The difference between Russian and Ukrainian is similar to the difference between our English and Chaucer's and anybody in the Ukraine who isn't retarded can speak Russian.
The city of Moscow featured the most paranoid design for a city in the history of the world, basically a system of concentric rings, each more difficult to break into than the last. That is because up to a very late date, Crimean Tatars, remnants of the Golden Horde, used to ride into the city as far as they could get, capture children and stuff them into baskets on their horses and ride off to sell them so that the word "Slav" morphed into "slave". The fact that any Crimean Tatars remain alive at all strongly indicates that Russians are an unusually tolerant people, less given to holding grudges than most.
The official title of the tsars was "Tsar of all the Russias", meaning primarily 'Great Russia' (Russia), 'White Russia' (Belorus), and 'Little Russia' (Ukraine). That is the heart of the Slavic Orthodox world and Ukraine is the breadbasket of that world. The Ukraine could feed everybody from the Volga to the Atlantic and that in fact was Hitler's plan; the idea was to build a super-gauge train to haul foodstuffs from Ukraine to Europe and, as I read it at least, to get Western Europe pretty much out of the food business altogether.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn
"Early plans for routes considered India and Vladivostok as the ultimate goals of the railways, but [b][i][size=150]by 1943 the planning was focused exclusively on European cities.[1] Ukraine and the Volga Basin were seen as especially important targets, as these areas were viewed as the future granaries of the Nazi empire[/size][/i][/b],[1] potentially through the "settlement strings". orSiedlungsperlen of the proposed Wehrbauer settlements within the conquered Lebensraum territories, which would also be linked by the planned easternmost reaches of theReichsautobahn freeway network.[5]...."
But you get the idea. The idea that anybody should have expected Vladimir Putin to just sit there and watch George Soros, Monsanto, and the US state department to just walk off with the Ukraine is idiotic. For that matter, the Crimea had been part and parcel of Russia for at least a couple of centuries before Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine in 1954; it didn't seem to make much difference when everybody was a citizen of the CCCP one way or other, but expecting Russia to just let go of he Crimea under present circumstances is doubly stupid.
Moreover, there is a very big problem with language convergence. Television and the Internet are radically shrinking the world. TV has in fact killed the Southern accent in Texas so that I hear it only amongst people over 60; I expect TV and the internet to kill most of the world's languages in the next 30 years. My guess would be that languages which will still be in use by 2050 will include:
Basically, Ukrainian is a dead language walking and the idiots who just took over Kiev know that, which accounts for at least some of their irrational behavior. Ukraine has a border with Russia, their culture is tied up with that of Russia, and Russian is the main language of those which will survive, with which they are most familiar. My money says that in 20 years, Ukrainian will be spoken only amongst people over 60. The future of the Ukrainian people clearly lies with Russia.
That brings up an obvius question: what are the people in the US state department smoking? What did they expect to see happen?? Another question is, what reasons could there be for wanting to start a major war over any of this stuff?
A century or two ago the reasons for starting wars were simple: Gold, land, women, treaties... That stuff was heinous enough but it was at least comprehensible. In today's world, unfortunatley, you have to at least consider the most paranoid possibility i.e. that the LaRouche group may be right and that the idiots may actually have in mind to start a nuclear war to reduce the human population of the planet to less than one billion as per their stated ideology, for the glory of Gaea.
It turns out the sniper killings around Kiev a month ago were the work of the hoodlums WE are supporting, and not that of Yanukovich or Russians:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-05/behind-kiev-snipers-it-was-somebody-new-coaltion-stunning-new-leak-reveals-truth
We have now seen two of these false-flag ops in the past six months (Syria and Kiev). At some point, the world has seen this **** one too many times and gets wise to it, and starts to look on Americans as a bunch of lunatics. It's hard not to get the idea that somebody in the US State Department is trying to start a major war.
Aside from that, the world can clearly see that Vladimir Putin is the best Ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter, and that Bork Obunga is just as clearly the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero and may in fact be WORSE than Nero since I don't view Bork as being bright enough to play a fiddle. More likely we'll get to listen to rap while America burns.
Vladimir Putin is the main force responsible for bringing the global warming lunatics into global disrepute and disrepect. Putin apparently got a number of Russia's best hackers in a room and said something like "Guys, I'm not gonna wreck Russia's economy over a bunch of bullshit, I want you to blast your way into that East Anglia Email Database and spread to the four winds whatever you might find there", and they did that:
http://www.climategate.com
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?221759-Is-Putin-behind-the-leaked-Climategate-e-mails
In other words, aside from needing to learn how to pronounce the guy's name properly, commentators like Limbaugh and Hannity need to understand that Putin is primarily responsible for their not needing to rub sticks together to make fire.
I mean, how many times does that make that Russia has bailed our hiney's out of some really awful kind of ****? Picture living in a world in which Sweden was a major power, i.e. picture yourself cruising in a 57 Volvo:
Guy a half mile up the road had one of those when I was a teenager. The thing was so ugly that just having it parked at the curb reduced housing values within a three-block radius. Tsar Peter saved us from that ****:
I EXPECT libtards and demoKKKrats to be clueless; it's painful to listen to stupid **** coming from right of center commentaters like Limbaugh and Hannity. Again they should start by at least learning to pronounce the guy's name properly:
"vla-DEE-mir POO-Tin" The accent is on the second syllable in Vladimir and nobody swallows a T or pronounces it like a D in Russia.
There is a question of communism in the picture and the thing you have to grasp is that the Soviet state had an absolute monopoly on weapons under the CCCP so that there was no possibility of the people ever rising up and overthrowing that system. That system fell because the people running it finally realized it couldn't work and gave it up. There is zero possibility of Russia going back to socialism or communism.
They ARE however going back to their original Christian roots and aside from building some 200 Christian churches in and around Moscow, they have actually rebuilt that gigantic cathedral which the commies tore down and made into a swimming complex:
Aside from all of that, Putin and the people around him have clearly taken a hard look at the ongoing suicide of the West and determind that Russia is not going to participate in any of that happy horse-****. Not allowing gays to recruit or prosylitize in schools or allowing girl bands to desecrate a church are signs of a recovered righteousness.
I mean, if I've missed anything or left anything important out here or gotten anything wrong, somebody let me know, but this is the picture I'm seeing. I don't see anything not to like with Putin or the vision of the current Russian government.
On February 21, 2012, five members of the group staged a performance in Moscow's Cathedral of Christ the Savior. Their actions were stopped by church security officials. By that evening, they had turned the performance into a music video entitled "Punk Prayer - Mother of God, Chase Putin Away!" The women said their protest was directed at the Orthodox Church leader's support for Putin during his election campaign.
There are an estimated 11 members of Pussy Riot. They represent no threat to Putin or Russia. It is not a matter as to whether I approve of their actions or not. They have suffered disproportionate harsh treatment for exercising free speech whether on the street or elsewhere. Two of them served 21 months in prison for their "crimes."
But let's be clear. Putin has meted out harsh treatment to those who criticize him. The Human Rights Report details some of those abuses that go far beyond Pussy Riot.
Yeah RT is a reliable source. I watch RT daily and they spout the same kind of propaganda you are. You can defend the corrupt former President all you want. The Ukraine has been plagued by corrupt political leaders ever since its independence from the Soviet empire. However, that in no way justifies a Russian invasion and annexation of part of the Ukraine.
Some will argue whether it is "post-Communist" or not. Putin has been in power for 14 years with another 6 to go.
From thge State Deparetment 2012 Human Rights Report on Russia:
"Other problems reported during the year included: allegations of torture and excessive force by law enforcement officials; life-threatening prison conditions; interference in the judiciary and the right to a fair trial; abridgement of the right to privacy; restrictions on minority religions; widespread corruption; societal and official intimidation of civil society and labor activists; limitations on the rights of workers; trafficking in persons; attacks on migrants and select religious and ethnic minorities;
There were several reports that the government or its agents committed arbitrary or unlawful killings. In the North Caucasus, numerous extrajudicial killings were carried out by both authorities and local militants.
Violence continued in the North Caucasus republics, driven by separatism, interethnic conflict, jihadist movements, vendettas, criminality, and excesses by security forces. Dagestan continued to be the most violent area in the North Caucasus. General levels of violence decreased in the North Caucasus by almost 10 percent in 2012 compared with 2011. Online newspaper Caucasian Knot reported significant drops in casualty rates in Chechnya and Kabardino-Balkaria in the third and fourth quarters of 2012 .
Killings: Caucasian Knot reported there were at least 690 deaths during the year, compared with 750 in 2011. One journalist was killed in the North Caucasus region during the year.
"There continued to be reports that security forces used indiscriminate force resulting in numerous deaths and that the perpetrators were not prosecuted."
If Russia was still ruled by the Communists, the situation in Ukraine would have been a bloodbath.
It is not over. There is much more to come.
LL could be batshit crazy on every other topic under the sun, but his assessment of what would happen in any sort of a nuclear first-strike action (which YOU were recommending) is straight on. Don’t be calling for first strikes and calling other people “crazy”...
bump
http://www.tomatobubble.com/pussyriot.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/08/the-pussy-riot-flap/
You open the history book under 'G' for "groupies", and you go through the list of guys who've ever inspired groupie or fan phenomena, and you can at least understand most of it: Genghis Khan, Von Richtofen, Roberto Duran, Mick Jagger...
Anybody can understand a teenage girl or young woman going through some sort of a Mick Jagger groupie phase.
But wanting to be a George Soros groupie??? I mean, I'm sorry, that one leaves me cold, I could come closer to understanding being a Richard Nixon groupie....
Couple of you clowns might want to try talking "Pussy Riot" into doing their little shtick in one of the larger mosques in our good ally Saudi Arabia, and see what happens...
A. Whatever happens to the freaks in Pussy Riot is of no conseqence to me whatsoever.
B. I am concerned about the human rights and Constitution violations that are increasing pedal to the metal in the USA, and the commie/moslem/faggot/racist/thug who is illegally in the WH and vigorously destroying our country along with all the Dems, with the Rs acting for the most part, as passive enablers.
What happens in Russia and Ukraine is their business.
What happens in my country is my business and if We the People don’t do something soon, we’re going to have a replay of Stalinist type slaughter and repression in the future.
“Yep, I believe pretty soon they will be running the JAG offices.”
They have been doing that since about 2 years into Obozo’s first term.
Can you even think of a conservative graduated from law school in the past two decades.
Most if not all are soul mates of Herr Obozo and Holder.
Pfft. The Brits are mostly an enemy. Its one of the most left wing nuthouses in Europe. Time to move on from these antiquated ideas that Thatcher is still in charge. She’s not, and the country is a satellite EU state full of feral youths, muztard terrorists, and pedophiles/queers.
Their biggest problem is that they are anti-Putin.
The bad manners you’re showing here don’t contribute to the discussion or to winning your point. I suggest you lay off the “bootlicker” slurs.
Really? Would you have said the same thing about Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia? Do you really think we can put our head in the sand and ignore what is going on around us? Did it matter when Saddam Hussein took over Kuwait? Should we continue to provide the nuclear umbrella for Japan and South Korea? Does it matter if China decides to annex Taiwan?
“What happens in Russia and Ukraine is their business.”
No sane person is advocating war with Russia. But it is our business and we can apply economic sanctions and isolate them from the G8.
What the isolationist zombies never fully understand is that those policies got us bombed at Pearl Harbor and into war with Japan and Germany....and it got New York City bombed by the Islamo Facists.
The West is toast and the Russian model is no answer.
The West has surpassed the Soviets/Russians in every category, rendering the Soviets in the ash heap of history.
This is part of the last gasps of the Russian Empire. It too will die a slow death. Just give it time and the bread lines will be back.
The situation with Ukraine is not on the level of the situations you both cite.
Secondly, and this is vital, the current administration in our country is headed by an enemy combatant and everyone hired or appointed by this enemy combatant is similarly an enemy of Constitution and all that is good in America.
I don’t want them acting on the international stage becuase all that will happen is moslems and communists and dictators will be supported, as happened already in the so-called “Arab spring”.
You use the word “we”. Do you mean American citizens? Or the fedgov?
The fedgov at this point is so removed from representing my interests, or the interests of any sane or moral American, that they are much more dangerous to the interests of the USA than any other foreign country.
“Greater Russia means enfolding traditionally Russian territories in the Kremlin’s embrace. Putin want less to restore the Soviet Union than Czarist Russia. I suspect he hates Communism as much he hates the West.”
Only one slight observation, he doesnt hate the West. In fact, when he was elected president in 2000, he led a rather pro-western politics; he ws the first leader who called G.Bush after the September 11 attack, he collaborated with the US in 2001, to ease the transport of troops and ordinance to northen Afghanistan ... etc.
What he got in return? NATO poking at his ribs..
BTW, Russia announced that will give Crimea $4 billion in the new Russian budget, according to Vladimir Osakovskiy, chief economist for Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States at Bank of America Corp. in Moscow. They have already advanced $405 million to Crimea for current needs.
That amount includes $2 billion to replace funds from Ukraine’s budget and raise wages and pensions to the Russian level (which means about 100% increase, compared with Ukrainian pensions and wages), as well as much as $1.5 billion to $2 billion for infrastructure upgrades, Osakovskiy said .
Do you think the situation is static? Hitler established the precedent that he had the right to protect German ethnic minorities in the Sudetenland. Will Putin stop at the Crimea or will he expand his annexation further into Ukraine using other pretexts? Is Estonia next with its 40% ethnic Russian population? Or Moldova? Do we ever establish a red line?
Secondly, and this is vital, the current administration in our country is headed by an enemy combatant and everyone hired or appointed by this enemy combatant is similarly an enemy of Constitution and all that is good in America.
You can describe Obama and his administration as "enemy combatants," but they are duly elected by the people. Are you advocating the violent overthrow of the current administration since they are the "enemy?" If so, count me out.
The fedgov at this point is so removed from representing my interests, or the interests of any sane or moral American, that they are much more dangerous to the interests of the USA than any other foreign country.
What do you propose we do about it?
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