Triple Crown Whiner 'Ashamed' of Tantrum over Belmont Loss

Breitbart News ^ | June 9, 2014 | Elizabeth Sheld

[discostu]

It’s about preparations. Obviously a horse CAN win at Belmont without having won at Belmont before basic rules of logic require it. But if you’re going for the TC without having run the horse at Belmont before then you probably were preparing your horse for the Derby, which is a shorter easier track. Belmont is generally considered the hardest of the 3, and last few decades show that horses trained for the Derby can’t cut it at the Belmont, especially not with the short rest the TC requires. And the time before then when the TC got won multiple times shows that horses prepped for the Belmont CAN win the Derby, and the Preakness, and come back to Belmont and win on short rest.

It’s not nearly all it’s ALL, and it’s not prior starts it’s prior WINS. All TC winning horses won at Belmont before the TC.

I don’t think it’s the tradition, it’s the prep. Owing to the length and overall track differences the Derby and the Stakes are very different races. And putting Derby prepped horses at Belmont is like throwing a 300m sprinter into a 400m with no time to train up. But owners currently are aiming for the Derby and then if they win that hoping for the other two. If owners actually WANT to win the TC they need to train their horses for Belmont, and then prove the horse was successfully trained for it by winning at Belmont before the Derby, then go to the Derby knowing that if they pull that one off (which they might not owing to field size and the randomness that causes) the horse is in good shape to complete the TC.

[nascarnation]

Thanks for an interesting post.
Explains a lot to this novice.

If the folks that run horse racing want a triple crown winner, they may need to change the rules, and require participation in all or 2 of 3 races.

Of course then any triple crown winner will be judged by different criteria.

I did read that the Belmont winning time was >4 seconds slower than Secretariat, so we’re a long way from legendary performance, assuming track conditions were similar.

[discostu]

No that would be a terrible rule change, totally devalue the TC. As it sits now the TC is the equivalent to tennis’ and golf’s grand slams, separate events, with separate rules, and different participants, win them all to be ensconced in history. Turning it into a tournament loses was makes it interesting. Owners just need to change their focus.

[deport]

After the Kentucky Derby, only one horse is elgible for the Triple Crown. From
there on out it’s win the next two or there is no TC winner. The races get progressively
longer, from 1 1/4 mile at Kentucky, 1 3/8 mile at the Preakness to
1 1/2 mile at the Belmont.

[nascarnation]

What’s your take on the relatively slow time of the Belmont winner vs Secretariat time?

[deport]

Pace and individual horse capibilites to sustain for the distance. The heart is one
major factor most likely. Secretariat’s heart was almost three times larger than the
normal Thoroughbred’s heart. Google Secretariat and heart and you’ll info. JMO.

[deport]

you’ll info

s/b

you’ll find info

[mdmathis6]

Did Coburn insult you personally, call you names, and take your name in vain? You are off base in trying to judge his motives and his apology!

[mdmathis6]

Oh ouch....let’s not attack each other’s families now...where do you come off making such a claim!?

[Aria]

So you have no opinion on the matter?

I personally am sympathetic to Coburn.

[Nepeta]

It’s about preparations. Obviously a horse CAN win at Belmont without having won at Belmont before basic rules of logic require it. But if you’re going for the TC without having run the horse at Belmont before then you probably were preparing your horse for the Derby, which is a shorter easier track. Belmont is generally considered the hardest of the 3, and last few decades show that horses trained for the Derby can’t cut it at the Belmont, especially not with the short rest the TC requires. And the time before then when the TC got won multiple times shows that horses prepped for the Belmont CAN win the Derby, and the Preakness, and come back to Belmont and win on short rest. It’s not nearly all it’s ALL, and it’s not prior starts it’s prior WINS. All TC winning horses won at Belmont before the TC. I don’t think it’s the tradition, it’s the prep. Owing to the length and overall track differences the Derby and the Stakes are very different races. And putting Derby prepped horses at Belmont is like throwing a 300m sprinter into a 400m with no time to train up. But owners currently are aiming for the Derby and then if they win that hoping for the other two. If owners actually WANT to win the TC they need to train their horses for Belmont, and then prove the horse was successfully trained for it by winning at Belmont before the Derby, then go to the Derby knowing that if they pull that one off (which they might not owing to field size and the randomness that causes) the horse is in good shape to complete the TC. The mile circumference of Churchill Downs (and Pimlico) does NOT make them inherently "easier" courses compared to Belmont Park. Things just don't work that way.

What does happen is that the turns at Belmont at so sweeping that a long-striding horse is favored there more than at a track with sharper turns.

A 5 furlong dirt sprint at Belmont is much the same as a 5 furlong sprint at Aqueduct or Belterra or Santa Anita.

Thoroughbred horses used to actually be
trained. They aren't much trained any longer in America. They used to run a LOT more, even the very best of them. Consider the records of Count Fleet, Assault, Citation, and Secretariat:

Secretariat foaled 1970

Belmont Park ………..6/9/1973 8 ……….Belmont Stakes - Gr. 1 1
Pimlico …………………5/19/1973 8 ……..Preakness Stakes - Gr. 1 1
Churchill Downs ……5/5/1973 9 ………Kentucky Derby - Gr. 1 1
Aqueduct ………………4/21/1973 7 …….Wood Memorial Stakes - Gr. 1 3
Aqueduct ………………4/7/1973 7……… Gotham Stakes - Gr. 2 1
Aqueduct…………….. 3/17/1973 7 ……..Bay Shore Stakes - Gr. 3 1
Note that Secretariat raced twice in the month before the Kentucky Derby


Citation foaled 1945


Belmont Park …….…6/12/1948 6 …….Belmont Stakes 1
Garden State …….….5/29/1948 6 …….Jersey Stakes 1
Pimlico …………….….5/15/1948 6 ……..Preakness Stakes 1
Churchill Downs …..5/1/1948 7 ………..Kentucky Derby 1
Churchill Downs….. 4/27/1948 5 ……..Derby Trial 1
Havre De Grace …….4/17/1948 6……..Chesapeake Stakes 1
Havre De Grace …….4/12/1948 6 …….Chesapeake Trial 2
Hialeah Park ………..2/28/1948 6……..Flamingo Stakes 1
Hialeah Park ………..2/18/1948 6……. Everglades Handicap 1
Hialeah Park ………..2/11/1948 6 ……..Seminole Handicap
Note that Citation raced in the Derby Trial, the Tuesday prior to the Kentucky Derby, and between the Preakness and Belmont, he raced in something called the Jersey Stakes.


Assault foaled 1943

Belmont Park ……….6/1/1946 6 ……….Belmont Stakes 1
Pimlico ………………..5/11/1946 6 ………Preakness Stakes 1
Churchill Downs ……5/4/1946 7 ………Kentucky Derby 1
Jamaica ………………..4/20/1946 5 …….Wood Memorial Stakes 1
Jamaica ……………….4/9/1946 5 ……….Experimental Free H. No. 1 1
Note the one-week space between the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes.


Count Fleet foaled 1940


Belmont Park ………..6/5/1943 6 ……….Belmont Stakes 1
Belmont Park ………..5/22/1943 6 ……..Withers Stakes 1
Pimlico …………………5/8/1943 6 ………Preakness Stakes 1
Churchill Downs ……5/1/1943 7 ……….Kentucky Derby 1
Jamaica ……………….4/17/1943 5 ……..Wood Memorial Stakes 1
Note the one-week space between the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes.


When horses were fitter, they were trained to go short or go long by guys who really used to put fast works into their horses, as needed to prime them for a short or long effort.

Nothing mysterious is going on. Eventually, someone with deep pockets and a solid understanding of equine exercise physiology will prep some prospect and make the guys who give their animals 4 furlong "works" every now and them look silly.

[Nepeta]

I watched CC going to the post. I noticed he was showing labored breathing, he appeared overworked. I also did not like the way he was carrying his neck and thought he was injured before the race. I come from a family of standardbred owners and trainers and we had a fabulous young pacer years ago. She couldn’t lose, until she became a bleeder, which was almost an overnight event. No matter how we warmed her up for a race her breathing was labored. I think CC was used too much prior to the Belmont which would have compromised his breathing.

I didn't see any breathing difficulties.

California Chrome tends to carry his head higher than most.

I was watching every horse for signs of nervousness and sweat, and saw neither in the case of California Chrome. He looked like he was going on a trail ride, which for him is normal.

After the horrific breakdowns of Barbaro and Eight Belles you better believe a track veterinarian is going to scratch a horse showing any sign of distress.

[mdmathis6]

He was upset about his loss, might have been a bit of a sore loser,still I think he made some valid observations, but he has made a public apology so I don’t think any ill of him. Coburn wasn’t attacking me personally...which was the point I was trying to make to “/just in/”.

[Nepeta]

still I think he made some valid observations,

His notion of having the same horses contest all three races just is not the way these races and their international analogues have been set up. Only people who watch perhaps 3 races on tv each year agreed with Coburn's notion.

Once the goal is more easily attainable, it loses value.