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Ukrainian millitary escorted B777 until 3 minutes before disappearing
Eturbonews ^ | 7-19-2014

Posted on 07/19/2014 6:21:55 AM PDT by Renfield

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is not independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: alexandervindman; burisma; collusion; ericciaramella; hoax; hunterbiden; mh17; putinsbuttboys; russia; ukraine
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To: Popman

You’re on to us. /s


61 posted on 07/19/2014 11:06:34 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: justa-hairyape
Unless you can provide some actual evidence other then articles from Time.

Hang on while I find a blog that is "mostly correct." LOL

62 posted on 07/19/2014 11:08:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Please try to follow: it’s not toilet paper, and it’s not chaff. That’s my “grip.” What’s your excuse?

You cannot even remember what you typed. You claimed this persons blog evidence was getting ripped to shreds here. Right after someone claimed it was toilet paper. That is your lack of grip.

63 posted on 07/19/2014 11:08:50 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

Okay. Think I have a grip on your position. You were not stating it was toilet paper, even though you stated it was toilet paper and defended that it could be toilet paper. Think I follow you now. Have a nice life.


64 posted on 07/19/2014 11:10:54 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape

Any word on who develops this 100+ft long, 30+ft wide “chaff?”


65 posted on 07/19/2014 11:11:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Hang on while I find a blog that is "mostly correct." LOL

Time is never correct. We conservatives figured that out some 20 years ago. That is why the paper mag is dead and buried.

66 posted on 07/19/2014 11:13:18 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape

That is not chaff in the video. It is burning debris falling down around the wrecked heavier parts. No way chaff descends that fast. Defeats the purpose. Try this:

http://wx.db.erau.edu/faculty/mullerb/Wx365/Chaff/chaff.html


67 posted on 07/19/2014 11:15:25 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: justa-hairyape

You stated: “The Ukraine coup [sic] government declared the Russian language illegal. How could the 5 million ethnic Russian separatists declare lawful war when their language was illegal?”

In what way can what you previously stated be reconciled with what actually happened? First, the Russian language was never declared illegal. Second, the law if passed, would have simply stated that Ukrainian (as it had been for most of the time since independence) would be the only official language. Third, the law was never actually enacted.

What you previously claimed was that the Ukrainian government made the Russia language illegal. This is a complete falsehood. I really fail to see why you even bother to argue otherwise, although I do realize that for many of the Putin trolls here, this is the only basis they have to justify the mass murder that Putin is currently perpetrating in eastern Ukraine. Still, given the West’s weak reaction up to now, it is likely that thousands more will die to feed Putin’s ego and the mindless neo-Soviets that keep coming out of the woodwork.


68 posted on 07/19/2014 11:17:10 AM PDT by Agog
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To: 1rudeboy
Kinda hard to do accurate size estimates in videos. It can be done, but takes more then a few minutes. We may have had some chaff not properly dispersed also. The BUK Missile itself is kinda odd how it deploys a ring of metal. Sometimes that ring does not disperse or form properly. So conversely sometimes chaff may not completely disperse out of the dispersal mechanism. Guess you could have claimed it was left over BUK missile debris. That would have been better then the claim of toilet paper.

Bottom line is the Ukraine military should have been escorting what is know in the trade as a VIP flight when forced to travel through hostile territory. Airline crews and the airlines themselves are made aware of important people on board flights. And one of the top aids scientist in the world would be acknowledged as a VIP. So you wont even acknowledge that their was motive to escort a VIP flight through hostile territory ?

69 posted on 07/19/2014 11:28:00 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape

Russian language would have even still stayed on government documents even if there were no veto by interim president. Canceling 2012 change to language law would have just returned the law to how things were for decades before. Russia used extreme propaganda to misrepresent everything that was happening including what the language would have meant.

Russian propaganda has regrettably gotten very effective lately and sadly you seem to have been targeted by a lot of their lies about Ukraine and have chosen to believe them.


70 posted on 07/19/2014 11:28:57 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: Renfield

there is no way to vet the source, have to ignore it


71 posted on 07/19/2014 11:29:23 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Agog

Because they revolted due to the intent of the illegal coup government. If they had not revolted, it would have been illegal to use Russian in official government documents. So it might as well have been. You cannot claim that a rebellion against an illegal government, has to make a legal declaration with the government of their intent to revolt. So no illegal war here. Just a rebellion against an illegal coup government that was trying to force 5 million of its people to use a different language. Fairly straight forward. No need for chaff.


72 posted on 07/19/2014 11:33:44 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Krosan
Russian language would have even still stayed on government documents even if there were no veto by interim president. Canceling 2012 change to language law would have just returned the law to how things were for decades before. Russia used extreme propaganda to misrepresent everything that was happening including what the language would have meant.

The issue is not what freepers think. Unless they live within the Ukraine. The issue is what the people revolting thought. So the claim that this was an illegal war is neutered by the claim this was an illegal coup government. Both sides have been misled by leaders. That is a given.

73 posted on 07/19/2014 11:37:51 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape
No need for chaff.

So, then why did they kill approximately 300 innocent people, including children and infants? And, why are we hearing that the bodies and personal effects were looted and disrespected?

These people have been treated as exactly that - chaff.

74 posted on 07/19/2014 11:40:45 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: 1rudeboy

There was a guy who posted earlier who said it was toilet paper :)


75 posted on 07/19/2014 11:55:54 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

And both were incorrect.


76 posted on 07/19/2014 11:59:55 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Renfield
Russia would have nothing to gain from such a ham-fisted move; and whatever you may think of his motives, Putin isn’t stupid enough to do sponsor such an act.

Absolutely true. The same goes for Kiev.

The shootdown was organized by U.S. intelligence (or some proxy) in order to embarrass Russia and turn international public opinion against Russia and its allies;

Even if the Regime were that evil, that would be a difficult feat to pull off without getting caught. You can spin such whackjob nonsense in retrospect all you want, but a priori, there are far too many things that could go wrong.

Yulia Timoshenko, or persons allied to her, arranged the shootdown in order to embarrass the current Ukrainian president, with an eye to regaining the presidency.

Guano. When it was shot down, the plane had already flown over most of Ukraine (about 700 miles). Obviously, if it had been a plot to embarrass the Kiev government, the plane would have been shot down over unambiguous Kiev territory. And, again, difficult to pull off without getting caught.

77 posted on 07/19/2014 12:08:40 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Krosan

“Russian language would have even still stayed on government documents even if there were no veto by interim president. “

What you are saying is not true at all.
Russian had official status in 13 provinces, repealing the laws official status would have disallowed its use in official government documents.

The only exception would be Crimea with its special autonomous status in Ukraine, and official russian language written into their constitution, but now that’s not an issue it seems.

Ukraine had both Ukrainian and Russian as official languages in the soviet years.

There are large numbers of people who only speak Russian in Ukraine.


78 posted on 07/19/2014 12:13:36 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: justa-hairyape
Think about it, if you were going to divert a commercial airliner through an area that had two military planes shot down, would you not at least be concerned and maybe send an escort ?

Given the rebels don't have an air force, what would be the point of giving the airliner a military escort?

A truck-mounted Buk battery has four missiles. Even if one of the escort fighters survives, he's not going to bother you unless he has a nuke.

79 posted on 07/19/2014 12:25:42 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: lodi90
There are no accidents or do overs in unlawful warfare.

Separatist revolutions become lawful only when they are successful. Ask Mr Franklin.

80 posted on 07/19/2014 12:35:13 PM PDT by cynwoody
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