Posted on 08/25/2014 8:01:34 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Fox News recently had a political story noting that in several close Senate races in red states, Libertarian candidates might keep the Republican nominee from winning seats held by Democrats today. In the last three election cycles, liberal Democrats in Senate races have won races with less than half the vote, and with the majority of the vote going to the Republican nominee and candidates more conservative than that nominee.
In 2008, Mark Begich won in Alaska with 47.8% of the vote, while Republican Ted Stevens earned 46.6% and Bob Bird of the Alaska Independence Party, endorsed by Ron Paul, won 4.2%. Al Franken in Minnesota won 41.99% of the vote, while Republican Norm Coleman won 41.98% and Dean Barkley, a Perot and Ventura supporter, got 15.1% of the vote. Jeff Merkely in Oregon got 48.9% of the vote, while Gordon Smith received 45.6% and Constitution Party candidate Dave Brownlow won 5.2% of the vote. In 2012, the same pattern emerged.
How much have leftist Democrats prospered by the division of conservative votes? Consider that Democrat Jon Test in Montana in 2006 got 49.2% of the vote, while Republican Conrad Burns got 48.3% of the vote and Libertarian Stan Jones got 2.6%, and then in 2012, Democrat Jon Tester won 48.6% of the vote, while Republican Denny Rehberg got 44.9% while Libertarian Dan Cox received 6.1%. Tester won his seat and then six years later defended it because his opposition was split.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Take the case of the Louisiana Senate seat currently held by Mary Landrieu. The current polling data show that Landrieu and Cassidy are the likely two biggest vote getters, with Maness and other candidates lagging far behind. This would put the Democrat Landrieu and the Republican (RINO) Cassidy up against each other in the December runoff. How’s that going to turn out?
Given the irrational logic of many conservatives, including many on this forum, their vote will go to Landrieu in the runoff, relecting the Democrat. That doesn’t make sense to me, but if they usual suspects are reading this thread, we will soon hear their emotional cries of defiance and determination to lose at all costs.
I just cannot understand the people who still say conservatives have to vote Republican for the good of the party, or to keep Democrats out of office, or whatever.
Yes, it might help the GOP, but the GOP doesn’t represent conservatism anymore. Why would I support the GOP as it moves increasingly more towards the left, and uses Democrat-patented techniques to root out conservatives in its ranks?
Yes, it might keep Democrats out of office, but what good is that when those elected Republicans act and vote just like Democrats? I will not vote for a liberal candidate that will support liberal policies when in office just because he/she is a Republican.
I’m not a libertarian. I don’t belong to any political party at all.
I’m not asking for a mythical ultra-conservative candidate, or a party that agrees with my every single political and social position.
I just want someone to vote for who has something close to my values and political ideals, and who has shown those values and ideals in votes rather than just political commercials.
Sorry, but I will keep supporting conservative candidates, whether they have an R behind their name or not.
Maybe its time for the “you guys have to swallow your objections and support the Republican candidate” crowd to take its turn swallowing their objections and start actually voting for conservative candidates rather than towing the GOP line.
If the republicans ran as real conservatives they wouldn’t have to worry about third party candidates.
The answer is simple. Pubbies, stop supporting marxism, attacking patriots, supporting immoral policies, support border security, lying deceitful electioneering, and you will go a long way toward earning our support. Did you think we wouldn’t notice your behavior?
My complaint is this. Those who SAT HOME and did NOT vote for Romney in 2012 GAVE US ZIPPY for this last 4 years to ruin our country. NO, lots of us did not like Romney, nor did we campaign for him during the GOP primary season, BUT WHEN it’s down to Romney or Zippy, what is your question? So by not voting for Romney those who sat home prefer to let the Dems have Zippy? That’s what happened, agree?
How’s zippy working out for you now? Fundamentally transforming this nation? Changes are made incrementally. Liberals are patient and never give up.
George "read my lips" Bush got Clinton elected the first time, and Bob Dull got Clinton elected the second time.
Is it more likely that the reason for our downfall is because the one major party who's platform includes pro-liberty, pro-life, free market, pro-gun, small government, pro-Constitutional, America first values, will regularly run candidates that don't believe in those things and then berate folks who vote for any other party?
You need to wake up. We will always have people who are wrong and who advocate for evil (Democrats). The problem is that we need good guys to fight them. You seem to think that you can fight bad guys with guys who are just less bad. It doesn't work that way. They only team up together against the good guys as we saw in the 2014 primary season.
You ask a lot of questions as if you are posting answers.
But you are wrong. Staying home and not voting for Romney was not the same as handing the election to Obama.
Feel free to ask more questions if you like.
No problem with the double reply. That happens.
The problem is with the reply itself. You were wrong. I see ansel has already corrected you.
Please, spare us more of the GOPe uber alles crap. The reasons for our impending downfall are quite simple and can be found in the following quotes from our founding fathers. They knew very well the nature of man and what would happen when we strayed from Judeo Christian principles.
John Adams:
- [I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.
- [W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
- The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If "Thou shalt not covet," and "Thou shalt not steal," were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free.
John Quincy Adams
- The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes . . . of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws.
- There are three points of doctrine the belief of which forms the foundation of all morality. The first is the existence of God; the second is the immortality of the human soul; and the third is a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith and that man will have no conscience, he will have no other law than that of the tiger or the shark. The laws of man may bind him in chains or may put him to death, but they never can make him wise, virtuous, or happy.
Samuel Adams - [N]either the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.
Fisher Ames (Framer of the First Amendment)
- Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers.
Charles Carroll (Signer of the Declaration of Independence)
- Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.
Oliver Ellsworth (Chief-Justice of the Supreme Court)
- [T]he primary objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of society. . . . To the promotion of these objects, particularly in a republican government, good morals are essential. Institutions for the promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative provision and support: and among these . . . religious institutions are eminently useful and important. . . . [T]he legislature, charged with the great interests of the community, may, and ought to countenance, aid and protect religious institutions—institutions wisely calculated to direct men to the performance of all the duties arising from their connection with each other, and to prevent or repress those evils which flow from unrestrained passion.
Benjamin Franklin
- [O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.
- I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.
Thomas Jefferson
- Give up money, give up fame, give up science, give the earth itself and all it contains rather than do an immoral act. And never suppose that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing, however slightly so it may appear to you. Whenever you are to do a thing, though it can never be known but to yourself, ask yourself how you would act were all the world looking at you, and act accordingly. Encourage all your virtuous dispositions, and exercise them whenever an opportunity arises, being assured that they will gain strength by exercise, as a limb of the body does, and that exercise will make them habitual. From the practice of the purest virtue, you may be assured you will derive the most sublime comforts in every moment of life, and in the moment of death.
- The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind.
- I concur with the author in considering the moral precepts of Jesus as more pure, correct, and sublime than those of ancient philosophers.
Richard Henry Lee (Signer of the Declaration of Independence
- It is certainly true that a popular government cannot flourish without virtue in the people.
James McHenry (Signer of the Constitution)
- [P]ublic utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.
Jedediah Morse (Patriot and "Father of American Geography")
- To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court
No free government now exists in the world, unless where Christianity is acknowledged, and is the religion of the country.
Benjamin Rush (Signer of the Declaration of Independence)
- The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.
We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.
By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects. . . . It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published. . . . All systems of religion, morals, and government not founded upon it [the Bible] must perish, and how consoling the thought, it will not only survive the wreck of these systems but the world itself.
- Remember that national crimes require national punishments, and without declaring what punishment awaits this evil, you may venture to assure them that it cannot pass with impunity, unless God shall cease to be just or merciful.
Joseph Story (Supreme Court Justice)
- Indeed, the right of a society or government to [participate] in matters of religion will hardly be contested by any persons who believe that piety, religion, and morality are intimately connected with the well being of the state and indispensable to the administrations of civil justice. The promulgation of the great doctrines of religion—the being, and attributes, and providence of one Almighty God; the responsibility to Him for all our actions, founded upon moral accountability; a future state of rewards and punishments; the cultivation of all the personal, social, and benevolent virtues—these never can be a matter of indifference in any well-ordered community. It is, indeed, difficult to conceive how any civilized society can well exist without them.
George Washington
- While just government protects all in their religious rights, true religion affords to government its surest support.
- Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?
And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?
- [T]he [federal] government . . . can never be in danger of degenerating into a monarchy, and oligarchy, an aristocracy, or any other despotic or oppressive form so long as there shall remain any virtue in the body of the people.
Daniel Webster (Early American Jurist and Senator)
- [I]f we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity.
Noah Webster (Founding Educator)
- The most perfect maxims and examples for regulating your social conduct and domestic economy, as well as the best rules of morality and religion, are to be found in the Bible. . . . The moral principles and precepts found in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. These principles and precepts have truth, immutable truth, for their foundation. . . . All the evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible. . . . For instruction then in social, religious and civil duties resort to the scriptures for the best precepts.
James Wilson (Signer of the Constitution)
- Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other. The divine law, as discovered by reason and the moral sense, forms an essential part of both.
Robert Winthrop (Former Speaker of the US House of Representatives)
- Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the Word of God or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or by the bayonet.
Our problem is quite clear. We are no longer a nation of just and moral people. Our leaders and political parties merely reflect who we are.
This is how the commies will save the Senate. Most of “third party” candidates are designed to siphon enough votes from Republicans to lose to democrats.
Have you ever asked yourself, where are the “Green or Enviros” who run as “third party” left of the dem candidates?
Last one was Nader in 2000, on his own and not paid by dems or Republicans. Thank God the count-recount was in W’s favor.
There’s no doubt in my mind that dem down payment money is paid abroad in advance and the rest will be paid after the dem wins. Seed money for the campaigns are funneled through small unknown groups and contributors.
“Was just thinking the same thing. Who gets the job of disinfecting these aircraft? Or, does that even happen?”
Just another addition to my personal “no fly” list. First it was the no Asian AL’s because they don’t really know how to fly the plane, and now it’s the Frogs because they are too PC to quit flying to countries with Ebola. Pretty soon, I will be down to Southwest.
If the GOP-e openly and unashamedly adopted some of the core, small-government positions put forward by libertarians, they might find themselves more competitive in these close races. It seems indefensible to claim, somehow, that some people shouldn’t run for office because a constituency, necessary to another candidate, might find them attractive enough to vote for them.
I’m siding with Ronald Reagan on this one.
“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is”
How do you feel that by not voting for Romney which is “not zippy” is not helping Zippy get elected?
How am I wrong when your vote missing for Romney’s side of the scale tipped it in favor of O?
A quote often taken way out of context
Are you absolutely sure Obama won a fair and accurate count of the ballots cast?
I have a feeling ten million extra Republican votes would not have changed the "result."
No, you are disagreeing with Ronald Reagan, who was not a libertarian, but was a conservative, that quote was from a 1975 interview when as a candidate, Reagan was interviewed by a small libertarian magazine.
After the man with an economics degree opened with that audience connection (which was very sly when you read it in context), he then proceeded to inform the libertarians on how he disagreed with them on social issues and national defense, in other words we conservatives are the Reagan siders when we disagree with the libertarians.
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