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These may be the only F-22’s Achilles’ heels in a dogfight against 4th gen fighter jets
The Aviationist ^ | Dario Leone

Posted on 09/30/2014 8:58:28 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Considered almost unbeatable in the air-to-air role, the F-22 successfully debuted in combat, taking part in air strikes against ISIS targets. But what if the F-22 found a 4th Gen. opponent? Even though we don’t know much details about them, missions flown by the F-22 Raptor over Syria marked the combat debut of the stealth jet.

As already explained, the radar-evading planes conducted air strikes against ISIS ground targets, in what (considering the 5th Generation plane’s capabilities) were probably Swing Role missions: the stealth jets flew ahead of the rest of the strike package to cover the other attack planes, dropped their Precision Guided Munitions (PGMs) on designated targets, and escorted the package during the way back.

Considered that it could not carry external fuel tanks (to keep a low radar signature), the F-22 were refueled at least two or three times to make it to North Syria and back to the UAE, flying a mission most probably exceeding the 6 – 7 hours flying time.

Raptor’s stealthiness is maintained by storing weapons in internal bays capable to accomodate 2x AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, some AIM-120C AMRAAM air-to-air missiles (the number depending on the configuration), as well as 2x 1,000 pound GBU-32 JDAM or 8x GBU-39 small diameter bombs: in this way the Raptor can dominate the airspace above the battlefield while performing OCA (Offensive Counter Air) role attacking air and ground targets. Moreover its two powerful Pratt & Whitney F-119-PW-100 engines gave to the fifth fighter the ability to accelerate past the speed of sound without using the afterburners (the so called supercruise) and TV (Thrust Vectoring), that can be extremely useful, in certain conditions, to put the Raptor in the proper position to score a kill.

All these capabilities have made the F-22 almost invincible (at least on paper). Indeed, a single Raptor during one of its first training sorties was able to kill eight F-15s in a mock air-to-air engagement, well before they could see it.

These results were achieved also thanks to the specific training programs which put F-22 pilots against the best US fighters jocks in order to improve their abilities to use the jet’s sophisticated systems, make the most out of sensor fusion, then decide when and to execute the correct tactic.

The Raptor has a huge advantage against its adversaries as demonstrated by the F-22’s incredible kill ratio against USAF Red Air (which play as enemy air forces during exercises) and its F-16s and F-15s, during the exercises undertaken in the last decade: for instance, during exercise Noble Edge in Alaska in June 2006, few F-22s were able to down 108 adversaries with no losses, while during the 2007 edition of the same exercise, they brought their record to 144 simulated kills.

In its first Red Flag participation, in February 2007, the Raptor was able to establish air dominance rapidly and with no losses.

As reported by Dave Allport and Jon Lake in a story which appeared on Air Force Monthly magazine, during an Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI) in 2008, the F-22s scored 221 simulated kills without a single loss.

Still, when outnumbered and threatened by F-15s, F-16s and F-18s, in a simulated WVR (Within Visual Range) dogfight, the F-22 is not invincible.

Apparently along with the Rafale, one aircraft which proved to be a real threat for the F-22 is the Eurofighter Typhoon: during the 2012 Red Flag-Alaska, the German Eurofighters not only held their own, but reportedly achieved several kills on the Raptors.

Even though with don’t know anything about the ROE (Rules Of Engagement) set for that training sorties and, at the same time, the outcome of those mock air-to-air combat is still much debated (as there are different accounts of those simulated battles), the “F-22 vs Typhoon at RF-A” story, raised some questions about the threat posed to the Raptor by advanced, unstealthy, 4th Gen. fighter jets.

In fact, even though these aircraft are not stealth, Typhoons are equipped with Helmet Mounted Display (HMD) systems and IRST (the Infra-Red Search and Track), two missing features on Raptors.

The Typhoon’s HMD is called Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS). Just like the American JHMCS (Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System) which is integrated in the U.S. F-15C/D, F-16 Block 40 and 50 and F-18C/D/E/F, HMSS provides the essential flight and weapon aiming information through line of sight imagery. Information imagery (including aircraft’s airspeed, altitude, weapons status, aiming etc) are projected on the visor (the HEA – Helmet Equipment Assembly – for the Typhoon) , enabling the pilot to look out in any direction with all the required data always in his field of vision.

The F-22 Raptor is not equipped with a similar system (the project to implement it was axed following 2013 budget cuts). The main reason for not using it on the stealth jet is that it was believed neither an HMD, nor HOBS (High Off-Boresight) weapons that are fired using these helmets, were needed since no opponents would get close enough to be engaged with an AIM-9X in a cone more than 80 degrees to either side of the nose of the aircraft.

Sure, but the risk of coming to close range with an opponent is still high and at distances up to 50 km an aircraft equipped with an IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system, which can detect the IR signature of an enemy fighter (that’s why Aggressors at Red Flag carry IRST pods….), could even be able to find a stealthy plane “especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22″ as a Eurofighter pilot once said.

Summing up, the F-22 is and remains the most lethal air superiority fighter ever. Still, it lacks some nice features that could be useful to face hordes of enemy aircraft, especially if these include F-15s, Typhoons, Rafales or, in the future, the Chinese J-20 and Russian PAK-FA.

David Cenciotti has contributed to this post.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; eurofighter; f22; irst
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The Eurofighter's IRST

1 posted on 09/30/2014 8:58:28 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

How many F-22s did we end up building Vs. how many were originally planned. Does anyone know for sure?


2 posted on 09/30/2014 9:05:01 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Tagline deleted at the request of an offended FReeper.)
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To: Tenacious 1

195. 187 are operational.

My research indicates that the plane, which has been plagued with problems, is the one and only operative counter to Russia’s upgraded Mig-31 Foxhound. The problem the Foxhound poses is its operating ceiling. That I think is why we’ve been seeing the F-22 operating in intercepting Russia’s practice runs at the US with the Bear bomber; of late, the Mig-31 has been escorting the Bears.


3 posted on 09/30/2014 9:13:57 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: Mark17

ping


4 posted on 09/30/2014 9:15:52 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Considered that it could not carry external fuel tanks (to keep a low radar signature), the F-22 were refueled at least two or three times to make it to North Syria and back to the UAE, flying a mission most probably exceeding the 6 – 7 hours flying time.

The F-22 is an amazing aircraft. It almost seems as if those who ordered it's production shut down, didn't have a single clue.

The range on of the F-22 is 1839 miles. The distance from UAE to Damascus is 1254 miles.

I doubt the aircraft had to refuel more than once.

5 posted on 09/30/2014 9:19:59 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Obama and the Left are maggots feeding off the flesh of the United States.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Ran into this.

The FB-22 was a proposed medium-range bomber for the USAF. The FB-22 was projected to carry up to 30 Small Diameter Bombs to about twice the range of the F-22A, while maintaining the F-22’s stealth and supersonic speed. However, the FB-22 in its planned form appears to have been canceled with the 2006 Quadrennial Defense Review and subsequent developments, in lieu of a larger subsonic bomber with a much greater range.

Under Derivitives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor


6 posted on 09/30/2014 9:23:16 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Obama and the Left are maggots feeding off the flesh of the United States.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Summing up, the F-22 is and remains the most lethal air superiority fighter ever. Still, it lacks some nice features that could be useful to face hordes of enemy aircraft, especially if these include F-15s, Typhoons, Rafales or, in the future, the Chinese J-20 and Russian PAK-FA.


We need to build many more.


7 posted on 09/30/2014 9:24:11 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: Tenacious 1
Excluding protototype and test models, 187 operational airplanes were built before the tooling was dismantled. Ther has been one operational loss in Alaska in 2010.

The original procurement was supposed to be about 380 but budget cuts and arrogance cut the builds.

8 posted on 09/30/2014 9:28:00 AM PDT by pfflier
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To: laplata
We need to build many more.

No more will ever be built.
9 posted on 09/30/2014 9:36:09 AM PDT by TexasGunLover ("Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."-- President George W. Bush)
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To: laplata
"We need to build more"

Amen .

We are too proud of our advanced technology and delude ourselves on it's effect in a battle. Large numbers of mediochre planes can kill small numbers of superior planes. The Russians have an old saying "Quantity is a quality all itself". .

The F-22 IS unbeatable in it's environment but when the fight becomes a furball and goes to visual, it is as vulnerable as any other plane. As a matter of fact it is a more valuable target because a few kills will have a disproportionate effect in an air battle. Any enemy will be glad to expend a few planes to take one F-22 out of a game

We are so enamored with our technology and arrogant about our capabilities that we think the F-22 is invincible. In past wars specifically WWII, Korea, and Vietnam we paid the price, in blood, for the same attitude.

10 posted on 09/30/2014 9:37:23 AM PDT by pfflier
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To: DoughtyOne

Combat aircraft range calculations are similar to MPG ratings for cars: they tend to exclude real world operational scenarios.

Aircraft need to maintain reserve fuel in anticipation of various contingencies, including unanticipated maneuvering, needing to recover at divert fields, the refueling recepticle breaking, etc.

Three refuels would make sense. First shortly after takeoff to top off the tanks. Second before crossing into enemy airspace. Third on the way home. The Raptors’ tanks were probably never more than half empty along the way ...


11 posted on 09/30/2014 9:38:35 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

Okay, reasoned points... I appreciate the response.


12 posted on 09/30/2014 9:40:52 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Obama and the Left are maggots feeding off the flesh of the United States.)
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To: pfflier

“The original procurement was supposed to be about 380 but budget cuts and arrogance cut the builds.”

“The original procurement was supposed to be about 380 but budget cuts and arrogance cut the builds,”

should read “The original procurement was supposed to be about 380 but budget cuts and arrogance cut the builds to give more freebies to the leeches.”


13 posted on 09/30/2014 9:42:31 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (Why does every totalitarian political hack think that he knows how to run my life better than I do?)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: sukhoi-30mki
Sukhoi Pak FA T-50

15 posted on 09/30/2014 9:43:53 AM PDT by Bobalu (Hashem Yerachem (May God Have Mercy)
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To: Rich21IE

The Foxhound is no match for the F-22 in any environment. It’s essentially a Foxbat airframe; large, heavy and with limited maneuverability, equipped with a pulse-Doppler radar and slightly-better air-to-air missiles.

The Russians claim the Foxhound can function as a “mini-AWACS” and that may be one reason they’ve been flying with the Bears into Alaskan airspace. But the F-22 would kill both the MiG-31 (and the TU-95) long before they realized the F-22 was in the area.

One thing worth remembering: depending on the scenario and/or ROE, the Raptor has varying degrees of “stealthiness.” There is some reason to believe that not even our European allies have flown against the F-22 in its “full up” stealth mode, or with its complete ESM/ISR package on display.


16 posted on 09/30/2014 9:44:56 AM PDT by ExNewsExSpook
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The F22’s advantages presuppose they will be allowed rules of engagement which would allow them to always fire from beyond visual range. Historically this has been a bad assumption.

Once the enemy can track the F22 by eyeball, the advantage is lost.


17 posted on 09/30/2014 9:46:05 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: pfflier

You’re exactly right.

The Germans had better tanks in World War II but we had more. It came down to attrition.


18 posted on 09/30/2014 9:46:31 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

so, the enemy will kill it on the ground,

using locals,
that are peaceful.


19 posted on 09/30/2014 9:47:08 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 at MAKS airshow

20 posted on 09/30/2014 9:51:26 AM PDT by Bobalu (Hashem Yerachem (May God Have Mercy)
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