Posted on 10/07/2014 7:03:22 AM PDT by Borges
Reminds me of the joke they tell about the man caught in the flood.
Man’s standing on the roof of his house, water is rising. Big stake truck comes by, and the guy in the tuck yells, “Get in, the water is rising!”
Man on the roof replies, “Don’t worry, the Lord will protect me!”
Water rises to the height of the door knob, and a man in a boat floats up.
“Hey, get in to this boat and I’ll get you to safety!”
Man on the roof replies, “That’s OK, the Lord’s going to save me.”
Now the water is up around the brick chimney, and the man is standing precariously atop the chimney, trying to balance himself, when a USCG Seahawk H-60 helicopter arrives on scene. The crewman yells down that he’s going to lower a horse collar harness and bring him aboard.
He shouts above the din, “That’s OK, the Lord is going to save me!” and waves off the helo.
The man drowns, and he sees the bright light, and suddenly appears before St. Peter.
The man stood before Peter, visibly upset and crying, “I waited for the Lord to come and save me and my house from the waters, but he never did!”
Peter replied, “He sent a truck, a boat, and a helo. What exactly were you waiting for?”
The notion of jumping out the window expecting a miracle, or waiting for a miracle that could extricate you from the burning 87th floor of the WTC are equally challenging from the perspective of living your daily life expecting miracles. Any Christian should live this way - looking for and expecting the Hand of God in your daily life.
However, the miracle could occur with equal probability whether in the process of dying an agonizing and slow death of Glioblatoma or deciding not to intervene and let it kill you is the same. Glioblastoma has a 14% survival rate in the very best circumstances beyond 5 years, and 0 at 8 years. You don’t recover and then die of old age.
If one dies in the process of receiving palliative care, the near term (measured in months) result is the same.
I’m not for euthanasia, at all. However, there are diseases out there so brutal in their execution that using an abundance of concern in the administration of painkillers is a valid course of medical intervention. Administering pain killers such that the pain level goes from 10+ to a manageable 5, for example. In doing that, if the patient died, I don’t see that as suicide, assisted or otherwise. Glio is like that - where the pain is so bad you can’t give enough pain killer to make a dent in it.
As for the double effect, there is rarely a ‘single mover’ in any situation. The guy jumping on the grenade might have been thinking about killing himself for weeks, but found a great way to go out. The classic Buddhist on the cliff, who looks down to see the tiger who’s leg is trapped under the rock may indeed want to keep the Tiger alive a little longer, and then throw himself off the cliff.
We can’t know. Only God can judge.
Someone on this forum once pointed out the hypocrisy of a Christian being against abortion and for capital punishment. I understand it. Having the government in a position to decide the life or death of anyone for whatever reason is a dangerous game to play. Euthanasia is part of that argument. God has a purpose for all of us, the baby, the serial killer/rapist, and the mom with Glio stage V.
I don’t purport to know God’s will in any of it. I think human’s second guessing it is dangerous. I think in an age where we don’t give a toss about what God thinks any more, the question becomes even more dangerous.
If it were, it would be murder.
Attack the problem, not the patient.
A DNR can be a legitimate judgment that the underlying condition cannot be treated, and that further aggressive attempts (e.g. rib-breaking chest compressions) will only be burdensome and futile.
It does not exclude the not-insignificant chance of an unexplained improvement in the patient' condition, either physical or emotional.. A lethal injection is a deliberate murder.It intentionally eliminates ALL chances.
In jumping the grenade, the intent is exclusively focused on savng yhour friend, not on achievin deah for yhourself.
If, by some strange happenstance, neither of you died (neither you or your friend) --- say the grenade was a dud-- it would be considered a total fist-pumping win-win.
However, if a person tries to commit suicide and and they end up surviving, the suicide-minded person (and is/her accomplice)might consider that a dreaded complication. A glitch. That's because the person's death is directly intended. It is the whole point.
A beautiful message. Thank you.
Wonderful. Thank you. God bless you and your loved ones.
That's a brutal rhetorical point not rooted in reality.
Modern medicine can treat pain. Its one thing modern medicine can do. You might not always be comfortable-and-alert. Sometimes you may be "out of it" more than in. They may have to induce a medical coma. But they can treat pain.
As long as 30 years ago, a very experienced doctor told me he had never in his long practice seen intractable pain. But he had sen intractable doctors and nurses.
Not all doctors can provide excellent palliative care. Find a facility that can.
I have issues with both sides of this argument. Some of the right to die people think its OK for mentally ill, and others without a terminal illness to die. Even those who just got diagnosed with a potentially fatal disease that may or may not be curable. On the flip side your argument can be expanded to those with a living will that says pull the plug or people like my father who refused treatment that could have extended his life a few more days if not more, he had no hope, he knew that was it and made his peace with god and died in pain and suffering. Is there truly any difference between refusing medical care that can extend life and taking medicine that can speed up death?
My MIL survived a no-kidding suicide attempt. Not clear how she’s seeing things nowadays from the perspective of her Christianity. I really don’t.
I’d be asking myself why I couldn’t kill myself, and then ask if there was still something I had left to do.
It’s funny, because they say you can’t add a single second to your life - when God wants you, He’ll take you.
The real question behind the question is whether any of us can truly know God’s will, for us, and otherwise.
That’s the advantage Christ had on us - he knew God, and knew God’s will. I think Christ would counter, “I’ve told you, I could tell you, and I don’t think it would matter - you are still going to do what you are going to do.”
Christ called the ball on Peter, and Peter knew better than anyone. Judas still outed Christ. It can make your head explode a bit.
I’m for narcotics. I’ve had quite a “cocktail” given me for severe surgical pain, and it kept me both alert and comfortable. When I wasn’t comfortable I just kicked up the dosage a notch and drifted off awhile. I had an excellent doctor.
Even better, I don't just want it to be illegal. I want it to be unthinkabe.
It is the bigger government who will kill you quicker than your doctor. Keeping out bigger government will cause this type of thing to happen less often, even though it sounds it was her choice.
Unthinkable ‘end of life’ planning is in Obamacare, passed by big government.
We did, and they pumped his stomach or gave him the micronized carbon or whatever it is they do, and he lived another 2 1/2 years in a manner that gave us a chance to have a lot more love, prayer and care between us.
That counts for something.
That counts for everything.
But there should be professional and criminal penalties for doctors who kill patients. Even if they call it assisted suicide. It violates "Primum, non nocere," which is older, more fundamental and more valid than the U.S. Constitution. Death doctors should not be allowed. Killing should not be allowed.
Obamacare is law and allows doctors to do assisted suicide. That was the point in the ‘end of life planning’, that Palin called ‘death panels’. The dementia patient is not in the state of mind to make such a decision, yet they will kill them if they sign the paper.
Murder.
Amen.....I don't for a second believe God will condemn her to hell for her own choice of death over suffering and agony in her remaining days.
Actually it hasn't, it's been there all along since she was first diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and brought doctors into the equation.
Could one not make the argument that her desire to seek treatment for an untreatable condition was a violation of God's will to return her to heaven..........?
Would God also condemn her to hell if she had chosen NOT to seek treatment for any temporary life prolonging treatments?
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