Posted on 10/21/2014 6:10:29 AM PDT by dennisw
But in the High Court’s opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer writes that the law requires prosecutors to show that the defendant knew the counterfeit identification belonged to another person.
...
So change the law. I’m assuming this wasn’t a constitutional decision.
So we need a new federal law that makes it a felony to KNOWINGLY or UNKNOWINGLY use false identity documents in any job application, I’d application, or any other contract or interaction with any company, individual or government entity.
Oh, great! Now they have just given every one of them an excuse! What next?
Because he bought the SSN thinking (presumably) it was his property and no one else’s.
Illegals and legal immigrants don’t understand the system here so these types of stories can seem bizarre to us.
The persons who are truly culpable are those that sold him the SSN and took his money or his sponsor’s money.
The Justices were basically saying this was not a felony but a misdemeanor. The question is was he deported?
Although it appears I am defending the Justices here, I am actually against this decision and against their increasingly liberal leaning decisions.
I think a hard line is now warranted in America.
Having this illegal nailed with a felony and made to do hard time should send a message to other illegals that touching someone’s ID documents is going to bring Hell down upon them.
And I am fully aware that those ID documents allowed this illegal dupe to register to vote thereby also stealing the voting right of the genuine person behind the ID documents and giving political power to the seditious organizers behind all these Ignacios.
In light of the SCOTUS failing to protect traditional American society, these Justices need to feel the heat big time.
“Consider, Justice Alito said, a defendant who chooses a Social Security number at random.
“If it turns out that the number belongs to a real person,” Justice Alito wrote, “two years will be added to the defendant’s sentence, but if the defendant is lucky and the number does not belong to another person, the statute is not violated.”
I guess from now on, I’ll travel any speed I want on the highway. As long as prosecutors cannot PROVE I saw or knew the speed limit, I won’t be guilty of violating it. After all, I may not have known what the speed limit was. I might have thought those signs were advisory only. I might not understand what a speedometer is, or have suspected mine was inaccurate. And it will be up to prosecutors to prove otherwise...
Oh wait. I’m white. I’m American. I’m guilty until proven innocent. Maybe I should go to court and change my name to Martinez. Then I could do as I pleased.
Flores committed identity fraud. He or the fake id factory pulled the SS number out of the air. Let's say it was your SS number. When the SS deduction from his check was sent to SS, it is possible that it could accrue to your SS account, giving you more money when you enrolled in SS. But, more likely, SS recognized the problem and put that money in the Earnings Suspense File.
Identity Theft is assuming both the name and SS number of someone else. Often this is done to commit fraud, but it is works only if the name/SS stolen has a high credit rating and a substantial level of un-used credit.
Most prosecutors differentiate between identity theft to commit fraud and identity theft to work. When identity theft for work is committed, credit rating is un-important. They want a name and number that will pass the fedgov employee verification system. Identity fraud won't pass the employee verification system
There are identity theft rings operating in numerous US businesses that participate in the Employee Verification System. The ring bribes a clerk who works in the Human Resources dept who has access to ex-employee files and can easily find names/SS numbers that have previously passed the Employee Verification System
Right — in college, I had a fake ID with a common name on it. Under what the government was arguing, I could have been put in jail for 20 years for identity theft.
So if I rob a bank it’s cool because I didn’t know that the money belonged to someone else.
Law, as this layman sees it, is, at the conclusion of the matter, all too often a vehicle or a tool used by the unscrupulous to dodge or minimize the consequences of their conscious actions.
Well if it didn’t belong to him then obviously ...
Well that sounds like a problem with the way the Statute is written. As a former Prosecutor, if you can’t prove all elements of a crime, then there is no crime. That is an easy call.
thank you
The Constitution was established assuming Americans would remain an honorable honest bunch.
The left has gradually (incrementalism) been able to use the faith of the Constitution to subvert its intent and undermine its honor.
Illegitimate could be a fabricated number, not stolen. The wiggle here, is the guy apparently used his own name, with the bogus docs.
It's still fraud, and you are quite right, ignorance of the law shouldn't apply.
Ignorance is no defense, intent IS.
According to this ANY criminal illegal has the right
to squat and take over any of the SCOTUS chairs
and become ... an EXEMPT black-robed Judge.
Can anyone PROVE that the criminal illegal
did knew the full power that would arise
from taking one of the 9’s SS number, EXEMPTION,
chair, car, office, ... and private homes?
Devil's advocate/ Assume he thought he was buying a legit doc from a corrupt official. There is a crime here but it's not theft. Presenting that forged doc as accurate is also a crime. But not theft.
Appears the guy was charged with the wrong crime(s) from the get go.
“….but that is a different crime.”
Roger that.
“Hey I didn’t know murder was illegal”
As in voter fraud here in Ohio. You can vote as often as you wish as long as you didn’t *intend* to defraud the process.
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