Woman is thrown out of Paris opera after cast refused to perform unless she removed Muslim veil

Daily Mail ^ | 20OCT2014 | Peter Allen

[dfwgator]

Plenty of Muzzie countries they can go to wear whatever they want.

[Rebel_Ace]

"As the clash of civilizations between the Free West and Sharia Islam heats up once again we find that some libertarians are more interested in fighting the heirs of Charles Martel than they are the heirs of Mohammed.

The old story of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good."

Having a largely engineering and science background, I had to look up who Charles Martel was. French king, lived in the 6th century. So, no, my argument was not centered around getting back at the French.

"...The Free West..."

What makes it "Free"? What does it mean to be "Free"? The arguments offered in favor of this law inevitably lead to:

"All Citizens Must Dress in a Manner that does not interfere with the State's Surveillance System."

"All Citizens Are Required To Remove Any Article of Clothing at the Behest of A Law Enforcement Official in the Interests of Security"

Yeah, that sounds "Free" to me.

Laws written to "take an inch" are used to "take a mile" when it suits the purposes of those who are in power.

I would bet that nearly every one on this board is in favor of Concealed Carry of Firearms. Even so, listen to the very words used IN THIS THREAD by our very own:

"She ... could ... start shooting the crowd with that gun she’s carrying..." - Jack Hydrazine

How long before some anti-second amendment LEO's start targeting folks OTHER than muzzies once such a law is passed?

I said it earlier, and I will say it again: Be Careful What You Wish For, You Might Actually Get It.

[Rebel_Ace]

'Ever heard of “No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service?”'

Yes, and I have also seen signs in establishments such as "No Gang Colors".

Do not conflate the policies of private business owners with laws enforced by the Government.

[Rebel_Ace]

"But when the Muzzies make life for Americans difficult like they have the French you’ll see Americans push for similar laws."

My only point is that we probably have PLENTY of laws on the books already, which, if enforced vigorously, would, as you have phrased, "Persuade the Muzzies to leave..."

[V_TWIN]

“Shoulda SHOT her her at the BORDER to begin with.”

[CynicalBear]

>>If I wandered into a bar and discover it to be filled with Leather Jacketed Bikers that look like trouble, I would leave.<<

And this was a group of performers who "left" because they were "uncomfortable".

>>What I am far more uncomfortable with is a Government that can tell me what to wear,<<

It was the performers who refused to perform.

>>If you accept its premise, then you cannot object when the authorities come to dictate your garments under that reasoning.<<

If I went out in public fully covered to even obscure my sex or what I have concealed beneath my attire I would expect them to "protect and serve".

[Jack Hydrazine]

Which laws?

[Jack Hydrazine]

Was the Paris Opera a private business?

[roofgoat]

couldn’t have said it better Pelham.

Some people think this is a school yard fight where there are rules. One side is not playing by the rules and is ruthless. It’s an all out street fight and the boy scouts here in the US and overseas are getting beaten to an inch of their life.

Destroy the enemies here and over their, then good men can go back to being fair minded.

Until then, if anyone wants to gripe, no problem. Just stay out of the way.

[Rebel_Ace]

Be right back, Detroit Edison is here to switch the power meter at the office, so they are taking down power...

[independentmind]

There are legitimate public safety reasons why someone should not sit in a theater with his/her face covered.

Look up the Chechen terrorist attack in Moscow at the Dubrovka Theater on 23 October 2002.

[Rebel_Ace]

"Look up the Chechen terrorist attack in Moscow at the Dubrovka Theater on 23 October 2002."

I don't have to "look them up", they were a CUSTOMER of mine. We provided the ticketing system that they used. Grim as it sounds, the system's seat assignment feature was probably used to help identify bodies.

A description of the siege:

"During Act II of a sold-out performance of Nord-Ost a little after 9:00 PM, 40–50 heavily armed and masked men and women drove in a bus to the theater and entered the main hall firing assault rifles in the air."

They did not 'rise up' out of the audience, they drove a bus to the building during the second act, and stormed the doors, guns blazing. I supposed they would have taken their masks off, if only Russia had passed a law making it illegal to cover your face...

[Rebel_Ace]

Geez, those guys from Edison don't mess around. I just got my desktop system down when BOOM, lights out everywhere with UPS units beeping...

"Which laws?"

Muzzie cab driver REFUSES to take fares with Dogs, or from places that serve liquor.
Response: Sue the Driver, sue the company that employs them, seeking damages that will make those companies think twice about hiring them.

Hey, this is "in vogue"... Set up a brave queer couple to FORCE a Muzzie bakery to make them a Homo Cake through the courts...

While local zoning laws probably prohibit Adult Bookstores and Pole Dancing within XXX feet of a Mosque, I am sure that DAVE'S 24 HOUR PORK-O-RAMA sandwich shop would be legal, despite the local's objections.

Videotape of Store Clerk kicking out customer's shouting, "No Jooooos!"
Sue the SOB until you own the store or chain.

You want to make a group of people feel unwelcome in a legal manner? You just got to think creatively, and be willing to put some effort into it.

Do NOT back down to their demands of NON ASSIMILATION. Assert YOUR FREEDOMS, do not strive to take others away, as that will come back to bite you.

[Rebel_Ace]

Here are a couple of screen shots of the system we sent. I have never had the heart to delete them from our archives:

[Rebel_Ace]

"And this was a group of performers who "left" because they were "uncomfortable"... It was the performers who refused to perform..."

The very first sentence of the article says:
"France's Socialist government today pledged to toughen up its anti face-covering law"

As I stated, if I felt uncomfortable in a situation, I would take steps that I thought prudent to enhance my safety. I have no beef with the performers.

From the outset, I have argued against a LAW enacted that dictates private attire.

"If I went out in public fully covered to even obscure my sex or what I have concealed beneath my attire I would expect them to 'protect and serve'."

My point is that it will not stop there. "You there, with the baggy Hawaiian Shirt, take that off so I can check if you are carrying a weapon." Because IF YOU GIVE LEO'S THE AUTHORITY TO CHALLANGE YOUR CLOTHING IN THE INTERESTS OF 'PUBLIC SAFETY' THERE WILL SOON BE NO LIMITS ON WHAT THEY CAN FORCE YOU TO REMOVE.

Look at a full, traditional nun habit. Complete covering with the exception of just the front of the face, and by complete, I mean even the hair. A slight of build, androgynous male could pass for a female nun, especially since the rest of the attire automatically suggests "woman" to the casual observer. Remove that habit, so that I can ensure that you are not concealing anything "contrary to public safety".

Not to be mean, but is this a Man or a Woman?


What if this nun had on sunglasses?

If you claim an exemption for the nun, it would fail the legal test of being applied equally to all people.

[marron]

My view is this:

I don’t want government telling people what they can and can’t wear in normal circumstances. But it is illegal in some places to wear a mask in public, for example. Many businesses would forbid entry to anyone wearing a mask.

In some places muslims are demanding the right to wear a veil for ID photos which is obviously a non-starter. So I’m not sympathetic with anyone trying to cover their face completely.

So, a law forbidding the burka, no, though I don’t like them. A law forbidding a complete veil in public, I’m more inclined to accept.

In this case though, it wasn’t government. The performers refused to perform for someone in a veil. In this country that would probably earn them a lawsuit. But my sympathies are with the performers.

[zeugma]

Greetings Rebel_Ace.

I have a lot of sympathy for your position, and actually lean towards it for the most part. Problem is, in many (if not most) states there are already existing laws about going about masked. (obviously not enforced on Halloween for variouis reasons). However, if you were to walk into your local bank wearing a full stormtrooper costume, or even just the helmet,  at a minimum the would probably ask you to leave.

I know that at my local bank, they have a sign on the door that says "no hats or sunglasses", which I pretty much ignore because everyone there knows me.

Would they refuse entry to someone in what normal people consider to be potential terrorist garb that fully obscures their identity? I would hope so. As a private business, I'd hope they'd have that right, though private property rights in such matters has been almost completely destroyed in this country in the name of "fairness".

Personally, I'd prefer such rules to be made and enforced by private business on an individual basis, rather than the heavy hand of the police state.

[marron]

Exactly. Walk into a convenience store wearing a full-face ski mask and you will probably be refused service. And if the store-owner is armed, he will probably already have his hand on his gun under the counter.

Try to enter any public building wearing a full ski mask pulled over your face and again, you will probably be stopped at the door.

I don’t like a burka, but thats just clothes and none of my business. I do know, though, that if you’re wearing a full length coat on a hot day, you will have the attention of security and they will be monitoring you.

A full face mask, though, has usually been a reason to deny entry.

[OldNewYork]

Good for the French. Now they need to look at the man supporting the burka-wearer.

[odds]

I am not sure why the article seemingly emphasizes “socialist government”. Do they prefer people walking around wearing tents?! They are doing the right thing regarding the anti-veil law. The current Australian government (which isn’t Socialist) also passed a similar law recently. “Visitors who wear face veils to Australia’s Parliament House have been restricted to sound-proof enclosed galleries”. I like the French one more. — http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3210197/posts