For Turkey and U.S., at odds over Syria, a 60-year alliance shows signs of crumbling

Washington Post ^ | October 29, 2014 | Liz Sly

[Don Corleone]

No matter what we do it will somehow get torn apart by the eternal local hatreds.

These people are tribal. They are foreign to the concept of representative national government. They have been that way for literally thousands of years. To imagine that we could rewrite that is the height of arrogance. Sadly, in this modern era we are putting nuclear weaponry in the hands of mad tribal chieftains. The results could be globally fatal.

[cloudmountain]

I didn’t have a problem with Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Go in, kick butt, get out.
oing into Iraq in 2002, I thought from the get-go, was motivated by a desire to take care of daddy’s unfinished business. It was a mistake to stay there.
Going into Afghanistan, initially, was not a mistake. We should have gone in, killed a bunch of very bad people, made a nice pile of skulls as a warning to the rest, and then LEFT. NONE of them should have seen Gitmo; any useful information should have been “extracted” on the spot, and then shoot the bastards. Again, it was a mistake to stay.

The ONLY folks over there that ought to concern us are the Saudis and ONLY because they have another 200 years of petroleum left. And we need it.

The rest of them: LEAVE'EM ALONE.

[boycott]

Erdogan used to be obama’s favorite muzzie world pal. Seems the Clown in Chief is burning bridges with everyone.

Obama is going to have both Israel and the entire muzzie world hating us before he’s done.

[lepton]

Obama can’t even maintain good relations with Canada.

[Bluestocking]

There are now two types of leaders in the world — 1) those like Mr. Erdogan of Turkey who understand that the U.S. president is an unprincipled egomaniac who would rather play golf than help them in a time of crisis, and 2) those who continue to delude themselves that Obama is a trustworthy ally until they discover he’s been listening in on their private phone conversations or that one of his top aides has called him ‘’a chickensh**.’’

[Wuli]

These “signs” have been there for some time.

When our “great NATO ally” Turkey, gave support for U.S. led airstrikes during the 1st Gulf War, is was NOT a popular policy among the people of Turkey, and may have helped in the rise of the Islamist, Mr Erdogan, who, when it came to the 2003 invasion of Iraq refused to allow bases in Turkey to be used for U.S. airstrikes, or for any U.S. forces to transit Turkey in order to get into Iraq.

Turkey’s policies vis-a-vis ISIS are not “new” signs, but a continuation of signs it has actually be broadcasting for some time.

Why? The modern state of Turkey is a somewhat artificial construct, carved out of the old Ottoman Empire, with help in their own way from Britain and France.

Yes, the Kurds were part of the Ottoman Empire. Well, matter of fact so was Iraq, Syria (including the Levant), Palestine and Jordan and a good part of Arabia at the start of WWI. Yet, just about everyone but the Kurds got some natural territory of their own, for themselves, when the WWI treaties were sealed. No one, least of all Turkey, wanted to cede any right of “self determination” to the Kurds, though as a distinct people with their own culture for more years than many others in the region - back to biblical times - probably no others in the region were more deserving.

For Turkey to admit that is to admit the artificiality of its own borders.

[Dapper 26]

More of Obama’s plan going into action. Fundamental change is well under way.

[grania]

Bush 1 was dumb enough to get involved and things have only been a series of disasters ever sense.

It goes back further. Clinton got involved with the disintegration of Yugoslavia. Back then, many predicted it would lead to out-of-control Muslim radicalization there and in other areas.

Sad thing is, I don't hear any potential US presidents getting the foreign affairs situation right.

[elhombrelibre]

Right. Free and fair elections.

[Rummyfan]

Erdogan wants it to crumble. Ataturk is turning in his grave.

[Rummyfan]

Most of Turkey opposes Erdogan and his radical agenda.

True, but he has neutralized the senior military leadership and turned the more radical eastern Turks against the Westernized residents of Istanbul / Izmir / Ankara. I think it will turn bloody eventually.

[elhombrelibre]

Yes, that place could come unglued with Islamists and secularists and Erodganites fighting.

[familyop]

The U.S. doesn’t have close ties with Turkey, but the U.K. does.

[mac_truck]

Lol..because they shut down Twitter for a couple of weeks?

You remind me of Jimmy Carter...or George Soros.

[elhombrelibre]

And you remind me of the type of person who always cheers on those who take away the liberty of others. “Mac-Truck?” More like miquetoast Quisling. You must want to lead the collaborationist wing of Freerepublic.

[SunkenCiv]

Turkey’s refusal to allow the United States to use its bases to launch attacks against the Islamic State Turkey’s refusal to allow the United States to use its bases to launch attacks against the Saddam's paradise...

and well said, C19fan:

He is throwing Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey under the bus so we play nice with Iran.

Turkey's been throwing the US under the bus, over and over, since the Islamofascist Erdogan took over, *and yet* whatever follows his sorry ass won't be an improvement. Also, contrary to my usual bitching (and reprising things I've said in the past), Zero's foreign policy has been to help create a Middle East where everyone is at odds with former allies, and new alliances built -- meaning it has been a triumph.

Even his ass-licking of Iran is a consequence of his failure to actually do anything about anything at all, other than by using "soft power" (the other word for "soft power" is "weakness").

In some quarters there's been a consensus for years about the inevitability of Iran's nuclear weapons programs, and one rationalization has been, Pakistan and India (and for that matter, Israel) has had nukes for decades and there has been no nuclear 'exchange'.

The fact is, Pakistan is going to get more and more chaotic, and the response will be for the gov't to impose a police state, to the point that anyone who vacationed there after college, say, Soetero, won't recognize the place. At that point Pakistan will become more and more a problem for Iran, which already has a porous bit of border with Afghanistan. Iran and India are not natural allies, but I'd be surprised if they don't begin quiet, formal cooperation in their approach to Pakistan.