The Actual Facts Of The Eric Garner Case

Breitbart.com ^ | December 3, 2014 | Ben Shapiro

[SaraJohnson]

Through Christian service, I visit elderly shut ins.
One, a seventy six year old man, had to get a denture. The dentists absolutely brow beat the man because he smokes and he blamed his loss of bone due to smoking. Every time he has to go to the dentist, he treated him subhuman. He was even rough with him and hurt him.

He was already traumatized that his years long battle against gum disease had been lost and was very upset. The evil of the dentist was more than he could cope with and it led to self hatred because of the stress. He wanted to die but I knew from speaking with him that he was not suicidal. He was just not wanting to live anymore. He was overwhelmed in fear, self loathing, sadness and misery. He is the nicest man, too. I love him.

So I took him for his appointments for support and he wanted me to come in and hear the meanness. So I accompanied him. During my first visit the dentist mentioned smoking and I irrupted saying the man had already heard enough of that; it was making him feel hopeless, and so the dentist could just STFU about it now. You should have seen his face. Like a baby with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

I accompanied him for six more appointments praying the whole time until the atmosphere changed and his care became professional. Smoking Nazis are sadistic.

[caww]

....”The message to everyone should be that if you resist arrest, everything that happens to you after that is on you”.....

The message should be don’t break the law, which the guy was doing and had been arrested multiple times beforehand for this same thing.

So he knew likely this would happen again...and in fact told the police to leave him alone, (for doing their job), then he continued to resist.

Sorry if he died in the process but he never learned the lesson he needed to...don’t break the law OR resist arrest.

I think many Blacks “argue” with the police like a kid would his parents...and that’s because Police play such a major role in their culture and how they relate to each other in their family’s......I speak primarily of the blacks on the lower level.

[Moonman62]

One thing the author missed from the video is that Garner slapped away the hands of the officer in front of him right before he was taken down.

[Swordmaker]

The man is dead because that cop killed him, surely there is some sort of penalty for doing that.

I have to disagree that the "cop killed him." The man died because he was so obese that the weight of his body, combined with his asthma, constricted his ability to breathe, because of his position on his stomach with his hands behind his back, put him into a downward spiral and he suffered positional asphyxia. An expert on the situation called in and talked to Mark Levin today and said that once he was in that downward spiral, even EMTs on the scene probably could not have saved him.

The question to ask is, is it proper for the police to leave a man of that build in that position for that length of time while waiting for transportation or should they have turned him over, especially after he told them he was in respiratory distress? The answer to that question may be yes, they should turn at least onto his side to facilitate breathing. They did not.

Was that negligence? Probably not if they had not been trained in the consequences of leaving him on his stomach. Once trained and made aware of the possible consequences, then it would be.

In THIS case, I think there is an unfortunate set of circumstances that resulted in his death consequential from his bad choices and the ignorance of the police. No criminal act.

[firebrand]

There was quite a bit of discussion of this on the original long thread that started in the early afternoon. A few law enforcement people discussing.

[firebrand]

Lynch had an op-ed in the New York Post weeks and weeks ago, telling all about the choke hold and how this wasn’t, so everybody knew. Many don’t care about the facts. I’m not an expert on these holds but some freepers seemed to be, on the original thread. It wasn’t a case of the facts not coming out soon enough. But it didn’t matter I guess.

[Samurai_Jack]

“In THIS case, I think there is an unfortunate set of circumstances that resulted in his death consequential from his bad choices and the ignorance of the police. No criminal act.”

I would say that the Obama administration needed a case to exploit. Something better than the ferguson case because the ‘saint Michael brown’ Meme is not exactly panning out for them. In this case, there was no threat to the officers life. The perp did not try to Bum Rush the officers. He was not reaching for the officers weapon. He wasn’t punching the officer in the face. There’s no broken eyesocket. The man was wrestled down and in a defenseless position and shouting for his life that he could not breathe. At that point they should have let up. This should have gone to trial with this and let the evidence be judged by the jury of peers.

So, in this case the Grand Jury should have sent it to Jury in my opinion. Politically it was more expedient for the Obama administration for the Grand Jury to have ruled in this manner. It provides Obama a proper case to exploit and trigger his race riots. And the Obama administration Gets what it needs Every Time it can be arranged by the street mobs. Remember, this is Chicago style politics brought national. Alynsky’s Rules for Radicals. There is no moral compass to direct these people.

So I believe that the prosecutor was directed by the Obama Admin through eric holder to ‘Throw the Game’. And he did so because we have seen an example of what happens when you get in the way of the Obama Democrats. Just look at what they’re doing to Cosby. The Emails showing collaboration will be Lost to disk drive failure. The information would be stonewalled from Congress just like the IRS investigation that these race riots are designed to cover.

And that’s my view of it.

[Cymbaline]

The article says it wasn’t a choke hold, but a sleeper hold. The autopsy showed no damage to his windpipe.

[Cymbaline]

Why the Devo hat?

[Reeses]

NYC per pack prices

In NYC pot is cheaper and more legal. Places in NYC where you are not allowed to smoke tobacco:

All New York City parks
Beaches and boardwalks
Public golf courses
Sports stadium grounds
Pedestrian plazas such as those at Times Square and Herald Square
Playgrounds, pools and inside stadiums
Airports
Taxis
Subway trains, stations and platforms
Buses
Restaurants
Bars, pubs, hotel lobbies
Dance clubs
Hospitals
Government buildings
Museums and museum cafes
Groceries and supermarkets
Pharmacies
Ferries
Theaters

[SteveH]

the article states that the term chokehold is not what the officer applied. the officer applied a submission hold. the police chief later mistakenly called the officer’s action a choke hold, but it was not a choke hold and there was no damage to the windpipe as there ordinarily would have been had a choke hold been applied. the article states that a submission hold is permitted by nypd procedure. the article states that gardner was resisting arrest when the officer applied the submission hold.

if anyone resists arrest, this gives a police officer justification to use physical force to effect the arrest (eg put the suspect in handcuffs and otherwise physically detain the suspect in a manner that does not put the arresting officers’ lives at risk but does not overly escalate force). i do not see where a submission hold can be judged to be an escalation of force. the guy resisted arrest, the officer used a submission hold.

in any physical altercation, an unanticipated event such as a heart attack might occur. the proximal cause of the heart attack might be the physical altercation during the arrest. technically, the arrestee suffered from a homicide, but were the officer’s actions justified?

the question i think is whether the submission hold constituted an unwarranted escalation of force. if not, then the homicide imho would be viewed as incidental if not accidental. there must be a small statistical percentage of risk involved in submission holds in which the person being held might suffer a fatal injury due to preexisting conditions, such as a heart attack.

standard disclaimer, IANAL, etc., and also i do not take defending police lightly.

[SteveH]

There was quite a bit of discussion of this on the original long thread that started in the early afternoon. A few law enforcement people discussing.

Here?

Grand Jury Declines to Indict NYPD Officer in Eric Garner Chokehold Death: Sources

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3233362/posts

[trebb]

You over simplify. By your "standards", if a no-knock raid happens at your house, wakes you up and panics you, and you reach for the phone (or anything that might be mistaken for a gun), you have contributed to your own death.

Sometimes the cops are the bad guys and cause unnecessary deaths for misdemeanor offences. Those cops should be raked over the coals until such time as the bad ones, who have no value for human life (even those who commit some offences) are weeded out so they can pursue their own criminal lifestyles for the outside rather than the inside.

[DoodleDawg]

If you or I picked a fight with Gardner, got into a wrestling match with him, put him in a choak hold and he subsequently died of a heart attack, is there any doubt in your mind that we would have been indicted on some charge relating to his death?

[DoodleDawg]

The law that led to this confrontation was pressed forward by former New York Mayor Michael Nanny Bloomberg;

There are a lot of laws on the books. Why did it take four or five cops to arrest one may for what was almost certainly a midemeanor? That's an efficient use of police manpower? There isn't any other crime in Staten Island for them to go after?

[SpirituTuo]

But they didn’t pick a fight. They were enforcing the law. Gardner resisted arrest. Consider the scene in the movie Casino when the Feds were rounding up the mob members. The fat guy who kept the notebook with all of the details has an heart attack and drops dead. Did the Feds kill him? No. Did the stress of the event lead to his heart attack? Sure.

It appears in this case, though I am no expert, Gardner resisted, the police applied non-lethal force, however, due to preexisting conditions, he dropped dead. Is it a shame? Sure. Murder etc, nope.

[DoodleDawg]

But they didn’t pick a fight. They were enforcing the law.

Four cops on a misdemeanor arrest? Overenforcing would be more like it.

It appears in this case, though I am no expert, Gardner resisted, the police applied non-lethal force, however, due to preexisting conditions, he dropped dead.

Considering the outcome I'd say non-lethal force wasn't what was applied. But you're arguing that it was an unintended consequence. And apparently in the police world consequences don't have any costs.

[SteveH]

See also

On the Staten Island Decision: The grand jury may have gotten it wrong on Eric Garner.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3233639/posts

[ansel12]

You disagree and then agree in the same post.

We read of obese people dying during small time routine arrests because of police incompetence and impatience, and you seem to recognize that.

[MeshugeMikey]

Hes a Pot Head!